Subject:
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Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.robotics
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Date:
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Fri, 13 Jan 2006 17:52:22 GMT
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Viewed:
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3189 times
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In lugnet.robotics, Benton Jackson wrote:
> In lugnet.robotics, Brian Davis wrote:
> >
> > You've brought up the price point several times. If your analysis is correct
> > (example: adding 64MB for a couple bucks), why don't you think LEGO did it? It
> > would seem to me there are three options:
> > 1) Your economic analysis is flawed.
> > 2) LEGO has other constraints that we either don't know or aren't considering.
> > 3) LEGO is run by a bunch of moronic idiots, and they've survived for the last
> > several generations on sheer luck.
>
> Another more likely option is that they put the ram and flash ram on the same
> custom chip as the ARM. Not only would this reduce the parts count, but it would
> save pinout and simplify the circuit board.
Benton,
In the world of electronics it is typically cheaper to buy what you need off
the shelf than it is to create your own custom chip, unless you are going to
have extremely high volume sales. When it costs $100,000 or more to fabricate a
custom chip, not including the design, development, simulation and verification
costs which would typically be *much* more, you'd need to sell an awful lot of
those chips to recoup your developement and fabrication costs.
Given the relatively small number of NXTs (versus say PCs using P4
processors), I'm guess it is not cost effective for LEGO to make their own
custom chips.
From a manufacturing cost perspective, the more parts you have to composite
together to make an NXT, the more expensive it is per NXT. Fewer parts is
better.
If they follow the same model they did with the RCX, they probably went out
and designed a system based on what is readily available today, with as few
components as possible and as inexpensive as possible. As Rosco pointed out,
there are at least two models/brands of chips out there that contain ARM7 CPU,
256K flash and 64KRAM. So there would not be any need to make a custom chip for
these features.
Maybe the reason the NXT has what it has for memory is because that was what
LEGO could get while meeting reasonable robotic toy requirements, and maximizing
profit? It sounds like the NXT has great features unparalleled in competitor's
toy robotics offerings IMHO.
For Steve, LEGO can't afford to put PC level capabities in a NXT and sell the
set for $250.
My initial reaction to the RAM size was that it was small, and it *is*
compared to a PC, but notice that a PC has DRAM and the NXT has RAM. This might
be minor sematics, but it might not. Typically a single chip processor with
embedded volative memory contains RAM, not DRAM. DRAM chip manufacturing
processes are *very* different than the processes used for making processors, so
making an ARM7 with DRAM on the same chip is not really possible. However ARM7
with on chip RAM which can be a simplied name for static RAM or SRAM is quite
doable, and has been done over and over. Unfortunately a bit of memory
implemented as a static RAM cell is *much* larger than a bit implemented in DRAM
technology.
I digress...... I just can't see how LEGO could make any money developing
their own custom chip, or pack the memory and compute capabiltities of an entire
PC inside an NXT, given the extremely small volumes of NXTs that will be sold.
My 2c.
Kev
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages
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| (...) Ah, I missed that one. No need to make a custom chip if they've already got one- and since it has a sufficient amount of ram and flash on board, there isn't much choice. Unless there are similar chips out there with more? (19 years ago, 13-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages
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| (...) Another more likely option is that they put the ram and flash ram on the same custom chip as the ARM. Not only would this reduce the parts count, but it would save pinout and simplify the circuit board. (19 years ago, 13-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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