Subject:
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Re: RSS vs. Atom (was: Attention All RSS Geeks)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.publish
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Date:
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Thu, 26 Aug 2004 20:27:28 GMT
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Viewed:
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4318 times
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In lugnet.publish, Dan Boger wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 24, 2004 at 11:20:46PM +0000, Kelly McKiernan wrote:
> > That's a good question. I do think most feeds will end up being served
> > from a centralized server, but that's not an absolute necessity. RSS
> > links can be distributed, as in peer-to-peer networking, but it would
> > be nice to have a centralized place. Probably the same server space as
> > the DTD. It may end up being LEGOFan.org or something else, that's
> > really TBD.
>
> Why have a centralized server? I'd expect there be a list of feeds
> someplace, and maybe mirroring of feeds... But it would make a lot of
> sense to have each feed hosted off the service that generates it.
> Unless LENNI wants to support remote publishing?
Hm. I guess there is a misunderstanding somewhere (and I think it's caused by
language barriers, sorry, I simply don't know how to translate individual
technical descriptions). But I'll try one more time. It would be ridiculous if
we couldn't understand each other :-)
Let's say, for example, we have ten siteowners working with LENNI-enhanced
feeds. All sites are publishing news via RSS, LENNI-enhanced. If every site has
it's own web-based aggregator, all should be right, since every single site will
receive all the news from all other sites. Also, every single site can filter
all the news from every other site by it's own aggregator, so that it's pretty
sure that we never see ALL existing news on one site.
So I suggest, that there should be at least one central place where all news are
available, completely unfiltered.
1) This is useful for minor sites that doesn't work with RSS, but nevertheless
want to publish something from the LENNI-pushed news.
2) Also useful for people who don't want to update their RSS reader regulary but
are connected to this one central RSS, filtering the content by their own.
3) Useful even for sites working with RSS but unopen to "peer-to-peer"
activities (either they can't do or they don't want to do), they could use this
central place to push und pull RSS-feeds
4) A lazy webmaster doesn't need to check the "lines": Are all RSS-sources still
present? Is there any new source for LEGO-related and/or LENNI-enhanced RSS
feeds? etc.pp.
That's what I mean with a "central place", I hope this is not to weird :-)
Otherwise I will give it up. BTW: I have a lot of ice cream in the freezer,
waiting for me being frustrated and from that moment on I start writing on
LUGNET using Babelfish only :-)
> > is TBD. All applicable LEGO-related XML feeds would be fair game for
> > inclusion in any LENNI feed list, enhanced or not.
>
> Right. And basically mark the feeds as "unenhanced", and maybe assign
> them some default properties.
But assigning default properties can only be done by every indiviual user /
aggregator depending on their own intention where and how to use this particular
RSS-item!? And to keep the idea of the "central aggregator", who shall decide
what properties are appropriate?
Of course, in general I have to agree that LEGO-related RSS feeds have to be
accepted even if they are in no way LENNI-enhanced. LEGO news is LEGO news.
>
> > The second scenario is a LENNI-enhanced feed that is read by off-the-
> > shelf aggregators. Optimally (and I think this is something that would
> > happen whether we wanted it to or not), LENNI-specific elements are
> > simply deprecated and not shown by the parsers. So somebody with a
> > regular parser who accesses a LENNI-enhanced feed would see the normal
> > XML elements (either RSS- or Atom-defined), but they wouldn't get the
> > benefit of that extra content.
>
> Again, right. Just need to try to fit as much of the data in the
> standard fields, so that the least amount of info is lost.
I agree. I think nearly all RSS-readers simply ignore extra-tags. But there's
also not that much scope to put LEGO-related data into given standard fields.
But that should be the clients problem, it shouldn't affect the intention to
have as much additional LEGO-related sub-elements as are needed / useful.
> For country, we can just use the standard two letter abbriviations. I'd
> expect to have region as a sub-category to country... A state, a
> province, even maybe a city? Again, some existing standard would
> be useful.
Good idea (sub category). As for abbreviations, are their standard ones even for
local areas and for cities? If yes, where can I research them, I'm interested in
abbreviations for the english terms of european geographical names. Any help or
link is really appreciated.
> > > * "authority" - [S] - i.e. TLC, Legoland, privat, rumor etc. - from
> > > where the source is.
> >
> > I've gone back and forth on this one, I like the idea, but there's
> > nothing preventing anyone from saying they are LEGO and putting out
> > totally ficticious content.
>
> Again - when you consume someone's feed, you have to be aware who's news
> you're reading.
Maybe one could use official sources only or no special source. Chances are
small that someone will use a wrong (official) source, since this would mean
"trouble" for him. If this option would be used with deliberation, it could
prevent rumours. Remember the announcement of the Santa Fe Car Sets? It was
definite a true information, but not only a few people thought they were faked.
I have had the same with the first HP sets back in 2001 and some other
announcements I made on 1000steine.de.
My suggestion: Let's keep out "privat" and "rumour", but use
* "Legoland", "Lego Direct", "Shop@Home", "LEGO S&E"
* plus "Peeron administration", "LUGNET administration", "Classic-Castle
administration" etc., all greater sites that could provide trustful information.
* plus the empty field
> > > * "age" - [S] - i.e. AFOLs, Kids etc. or 3+, 4+, 5+ etc. - who could
> > > be interested in that particular news
> >
> > Absolutely essential. How granular should we get? AFOL/KFOL, or more
> > specific?
>
> I'm actually thinking either we just do three options (afol/kfol/all),
> or age ranges (3-10, 9-99, etc).
The more I'm thinking about it, the more I tend towards "AFOL/KFOL/FOL". But at
the other hand, age ranges or even some single years of age could be useful. For
example, in Germany, some kinds of competition, contests and winnings and even
decisions and trades are allowed not until participants have a specific age. It
would be useful for site owners to filter out news that doesn't match such local
restrictions.
> > > * "???" - [S] - i.e. collector, builder, parents, seller, site
> > > owners etc. what kind of LEGO Fan could be interested in.
> >
> > Not sure I completely understand this one.
>
> Is this perhaps a type of category? If it's an announcement of a new
> web service, mark it as "webmasters". If it's a sale, "collector,
> builder, parents". Not sure if this is redundant or not?
You're right, Dan. I simply can't find an English word for this category.
I'm not thinking it's redundant, i.e. just think of an announcement like "New
web-based LENNI-enhanced aggregator available by Dan Boger". This would affect
"site owners" only (although you would earn a lot of respect from the whole
community of course :-)
>
> > > * "inside"(?) - false or true - to give site owners the possibility
> > > to provide the news-item for all visitors or to members / visitors
> > > who are logged in only etc. - maybe hard to handle.
> >
> > Not sure of the overall value for this, since the content provider
> > doesn't have that much control over how another site packages
> > their feed.
>
> Right. If a news item should only be available to members, you
> shouldn't post it in your feed - the feed is going to get read by a much
> wider audience, without you having much control over it.
Ja, I see it, you're both right, this might be useless and hard to handle.
> > > * "goodnews" - false or true - is it generally good news or bad
> > > news. Maybe better would be [S] positive, neutral, negati
> >
> > Boy, that's pretty subjective. I'm going to let others comment on this
> > one first. ;)
>
> Heh. It's so subjective, I'm not sure it would be useful. "LEGO
> announces 20 new colors!" - Good news? Bad news? Would any 2 AFOLs
> agree?
Same here, better to keep it out from the list.
Leg Godt!
René
BTW: PLMK if I'm interfering too much in this discussion, please see all
postings as suggestions only!
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: RSS vs. Atom (was: Attention All RSS Geeks)
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| (...) [SNIP] (...) I agree, one centralized area would be an excellent resource, one which LENNI could accomplish easily, I believe. That's a big part of why I think something like this should be created. Let me expand my assumptions on the project (...) (20 years ago, 29-Aug-04, to lugnet.publish)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: RSS vs. Atom (was: Attention All RSS Geeks)
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| (...) Why have a centralized server? I'd expect there be a list of feeds someplace, and maybe mirroring of feeds... But it would make a lot of sense to have each feed hosted off the service that generates it. Unless LENNI wants to support remote (...) (20 years ago, 25-Aug-04, to lugnet.publish)
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