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(...) A lot of stuff still up in the air about T3D Game is on a 8.5x11 PDF file with a predetermined registration marks where you line up to. The paper is taped to the table. L shaped airspace like the C4 game. Colours--black markers on paper. (...) (18 years ago, 13-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: rtl22 working concept
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(...) My concern with drawing circle is some may do it the hard way and the game will take too long. Although the slowest part is probably trying to read where the opponent draw their X or O. If a bot miss-read because the opponent's last drawing is (...) (18 years ago, 13-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: rtl22 working concept
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(...) If you are really worried about very slow machines, do what LafLRC did - time was one of the constraints, fastest wins all else being equal. (...) That was a problem I was going to mention as well. There needs to be a very clear standard here, (...) (18 years ago, 13-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: rtl22 working concept
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(...) I'd suggest a template that has a very light X and O marked in tiny dots. This would be the "ideal" mark location, and robots (and humans) should try to make them as close as possible top these. -Rob A> (18 years ago, 13-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: rtl22 working concept
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(...) Calum, I think you missed my point. When I said "easier" to draw. I meant to imply, that the robot who plays O would be at a SLIGHT timed disadvantage, vs. the X playing bot. We need to finalize a "timed" game and or would each "round" (...) (18 years ago, 14-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: rtl22 working concept
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(...) If only one game is played, the bot that plays first will be at a big disadvantage... (18 years ago, 14-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: rtl22 working concept
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(...) I think you just want to use a marker that says "edding BOO" on it. :) Calum, post that photo of the World's Largest Marker (TM) at Spatles. That marker was so large it made me feel insecure about myself. Iain (18 years ago, 14-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: rtl22 working concept
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(...) OK, thats the NEW criteria. "we need to use a marker SO LARGE, iain feels uncomfortable." NOW, can we talk about steve's balls? Chris (18 years ago, 14-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: rtl22 working concept
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(...) This is the marker so large Iain feels uncomfortable: (URL) is a generic 6.50 for 12 marker: (URL) you believe the above was shot with a camera phone?) Calum (18 years ago, 14-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: rtl22 working concept
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(...) Good point Chris - I had thought of that earlier but it slipped my mind when I made my last post. -Rob A> (18 years ago, 14-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: rtl22 working concept
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(...) Steve's got a point--if the contestants make smart enuf 'bots that will always end in a 'cat's game'--i.e. no one won, then who goes first also goes last--that means that the bot that plays first will have one more move than the 'bot that goes (...) (18 years ago, 14-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: rtl22 working concept
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(...) So, we find a marker. we agree on 2 games (each bot is and X and an O) we agree that the game board is going to be a 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper, with a printed board from a PDF. the bot space is the L shape around the paper. you can have a bot (...) (18 years ago, 14-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: rtl22 working concept
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(...) I have (yet another) suggestion. This should help people decide where and how to "make their marks", and will help decide if a robot does a bad job of looking for the mark, or a bad job of making a mark. On the pre-printed board, print a small (...) (18 years ago, 14-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: rtl22 working concept
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(...) Just to clarify, X always goes first? (...) Please explain - I didn't participate in C$ and can't find a rules page. (...) How will we time? Something like sugested by Derek for C$: (URL) (...) -Rob A> (18 years ago, 14-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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(...) rulz page here: (URL) you have to build one touch senor in your bot that the other robot has to "press" (1) to signal, that the robot is done making its move. (...) again, i like to fall on the "spirit" rule here. if you want to make your bot (...) (18 years ago, 14-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: rtl22 working concept
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(...) So none of the "Arbitrator" stuff here? -Rob A> (18 years ago, 14-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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(...) Actually, we ran afoul of this, in that the first time Bryan's robot played mine, mine absolutely refused to acknowledge its turn. It turns out Bryan was using an old-style touch sensor, while mine was multiplexed with a light sensor, so I had (...) (18 years ago, 14-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: rtl22 working concept
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(...) Right, and how many studs is a sheet of paper so that a baseplate can be built around it, genius? :) Calum (18 years ago, 14-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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(...) while the Arbitrator is VERY cool. there is only one. These games are difficult enuff to organize ithout the extra step of hooking up to the Arbitrator. I suggest keep it simple. 2 bot's and a human to time the game. Chris (18 years ago, 14-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: rtl22 working concept
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(...) That's not quite what we did. Robot X has a touch sensor that is connected to one of Robot B's input ports. Robot O has a touch sensor that is connected to one of Robot X's input ports. Robot X passes turn to Robot O by pressing this touch (...) (18 years ago, 14-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | TTT board marks or not
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Calum Tsang wrote: snip (...) So, I seem to recall that at the dinner, people seemed ok with the idea that the bot was to start, "NOT on the page." This was going to eliminate the need for "registration" marks, and the need for everyone to have the (...) (18 years ago, 14-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: TTT board marks or not
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(...) what stops the paper from moving around when the 'bots are writing on it? we have pretty slippery table surfaces, after all... Dave K (18 years ago, 14-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: TTT board marks or not
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(...) Tape. I like Chris' idea, I'd like to see a bigger grid. Derek (18 years ago, 14-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: TTT board marks or not
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(...) Tape. We talked about simply putting a small bit of tape on 2 sides of the paper, OR if thats a problem then the corners... OR double sided tape underneath and out of the bots way. Whatever is simple, and easy. Chris (18 years ago, 14-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: TTT board marks or not
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(...) The bot should start not in the airspace that is denoted as common, which in the case of the C4 robot, was the baseplate that held the game board. For us, it's the Tic Tac Toe grid, but not necessarily the page borders. (...) Well, you don't (...) (18 years ago, 14-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: TTT board marks or not
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OK, stupid suggestion coming up... Why not print a board that is guaranteed to fit in every printer and then fold (or cut) to that outline? Ralph (18 years ago, 14-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: TTT board marks or not
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(...) Not stupid - That is pretty much the same idea as registration marks, but better. The "board" could just be a simple 2x frame that could sit on, or have a folded paper board laying inside. Something like this: (URL) would also give the bots a (...) (18 years ago, 15-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: TTT board marks or not
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(...) That was my first inclination, to build some sort of registration frame or holes to attach the paper to the robots. That would make sense, but the concern was not to make it too complicated. Calum (18 years ago, 15-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: TTT board marks or not
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(...) Here are two options a board with 4x4 lego spacing, with a grid and frame shown: (URL) and the PDF of just the board and corner registration marks: (URL) and a board with 6x6 spacing, with grid and frame shown for clarification: (URL) and the (...) (18 years ago, 15-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto, FTX)
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| | Re: TTT board marks or not
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What about a piece of masonite backed whiteboard that can be purchased at Home Depot, with tape on it and then use whiteboard pens and an eraser? The board would have to be cut to size, and might be way more complicated that you'd like. The nice (...) (18 years ago, 15-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: TTT board marks or not
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I like the 6x6 size. I think the frame is unnecessary. I only need to be aligned with the board, my alignment with the other bot is irrelevant. I can use the alignment marks anyway I see fit. Derek (18 years ago, 15-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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Not able to leave well enough alone... here is a centered 5x5 space board, with the alignment parks making a 21x21 square: (URL) and the clean PDF with alignment marks: (URL) This would align the centers of each square with a stud. -Rob A> (18 years ago, 15-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto, FTX)
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| | Re: TTT board marks or not
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(...) I like the 6x6 cell as well. But 1 wide thick lines or 2 wide? I'm not sure the frame is required either, but the alignment marks certainly are. Calum (18 years ago, 15-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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I don't think the line needs to be wide, because you don't need to read it. But one stud wide is plenty wide enough to detect if you think you do. Derek (...) (18 years ago, 15-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: TTT board marks or not
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(...) The reason why I think we might want two is because of even versus odd spacing. I can't explain it, I just think an odd line space would make it more difficult. Calum (18 years ago, 15-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: TTT board marks or not
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As long as it fits on the page it doesn't really mater to me. I think it looks better smaller and I was going to have my bot draw the board for playing with the kids. Derek (...) (18 years ago, 15-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: TTT board marks or not
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(...) I like that! Have the first bot to play draw the grid! -Rob A> (18 years ago, 15-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: TTT board marks or not
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(...) So, that's something I want to ask--should there be a dedicated time during the day of the event which is a demonstration time? Calum (18 years ago, 16-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | Re: TTT board marks or not
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(...) Isn't that library opening till 1:00pm? Derek (18 years ago, 16-Aug-06, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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