Debate : 6773


Off-Topic / Debate / 6773

Are we all too nice? —Todd Lehman

This is ultimately a CFD (call for discussion) for a new newsgroup, but also asking what I think may be an important question. It's a taboo question, so do try to keep an open mind. The question is: Are we trying to be too nice to one another? The (...) (24 years ago, 24-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.admin.nntp, lugnet.announce) !!

Re: Are we all too nice? —Ka-On Lee

(...) In un-moderated usenet newsgroups, most people just skip over flame wars, trolls and spams because they get used to it. Compare with RTL, Lugnet is lightly moderated and you need to register before you can post. The registration is already a (...) (24 years ago, 25-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Scott Arthur

(...) Yeah, but I'm pretty sure I could use your ID right now if I wanted? Scott A (24 years ago, 25-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Jon Kozan

(...) group (...) is (...) I'm not so sure, but feel free to try. -Jon (24 years ago, 25-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Jon Kozan

(...) Ok. Scott A (24 years ago, 25-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Eric Kingsley

(...) every (...) Todd, Do you have a problem with this? I think I do. Eric Kingsley FU admin.general (24 years ago, 25-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Jude Beaudin

In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Eric Kingsley writes: <snip> (...) It took me a moment to realize the FU meant "followup" when reading this in the brief display. :-) Yikes, I thought Eric snapped. I am glad he didn't. Jude (24 years ago, 25-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Eric Kingsley

(...) :-). It's been known to happen but not this time. I have nothing against admin.general really just looks that way ;-). Eric Kingsley (24 years ago, 25-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Tim Courtney

"Jude Beaudin" <shiningblade@home.com> wrote in message news:G300Mx.19w@lugnet.com... (...) in the (...) <pauses> Oh NOW I get it! I must be pretty slow today... ;-) -- Tim Courtney - tim@zacktron.com (URL) - Centralized LDraw Resources (URL) - (...) (24 years ago, 25-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Mark Sandlin

(...) Today? <GDR> ~Mark (24 years ago, 25-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Tim Courtney

"Mark Sandlin" <sandlin@nwlink.com> wrote in message news:B61C9233.5DAE%s...ink.com... (...) Ouch, Mark. I don't think I can recover from that one too easily ;-) No real applicable comeback either... meanie!! -- Tim Courtney - tim@zacktron.com (URL) (...) (24 years ago, 25-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Shiri Dori

(...) Teeheehee, Mark, I was gonna post saying something similar, but Tim lives an hour away from me. <grin, and I'll be careful this Saturday ;-)> -Shiri (24 years ago, 25-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Tim Courtney

"Shiri Dori" <shirid@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:G308qG.5n2@lugnet.com... (...) an (...) You better be... (wait, was that out loud??) ;-) -- Tim Courtney - tim@zacktron.com (URL) - Centralized LDraw Resources (URL) - Zacktron Alliance ICQ: (...) (24 years ago, 25-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Shiri Dori

(...) Hey, careful there, don't forget I'm bringing Chris with me - personal bodyguard, so you just beware. ;-) BTW, I don't think we're "all too nice", au contraire... ;-) -Shiri (24 years ago, 25-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Tim Courtney

"Shiri Dori" <shirid@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:G30Bxw.GrE@lugnet.com... (...) Oh, you'll have your day, yes you will :-P (...) Believe me, I know that! I just saw someone who I would hardly characterize as being 'too nice' this last (...) (24 years ago, 25-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Shiri Dori

(...) Oh really? <grin> IIRC, it was you with the brick craving, and me with the house full of bricks... ;-) (...) Nobody's forcing you to go see her, Tim ;-) .... is that before or after you're coming to TCS? <big grin> (...) Beats me, I guess you (...) (24 years ago, 25-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Eric Joslin

(...) "You leave little notes on my pillow! 'We're out of Corn Flakes- FU' It took me fifteen minutes to figure out that 'FU' meant Felix Unger!" -Oscar Maddison, "The Odd Couple", by Neil Simon. eric (24 years ago, 26-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Todd Lehman

(...) Don't ever let me catch you doing it. It's against the rules -- see #3 & #4 of the Discussion Group T&C. --Todd (24 years ago, 25-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Shiri Dori

(...) Uh, too late. (URL) give him a tiny bit of credit for apologizing, but not a whole lot.) -Shiri (24 years ago, 25-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Larry Pieniazek

(...) needed to be demonstrated, we all know that spoofing is possible. I'm too lazy to dig up the exact off-topic.test posting that showed it but I recall seeing it. So why do it? ++Lar (24 years ago, 25-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Rob Doucette

"Larry Pieniazek" <lpieniazek@mercator.com> wrote in message news:G305zG.JLu@lugnet.com... (...) & #4 (...) that (...) recall (...) I think it happened in RTL. Someone posted as Brad Justus, claiming all devote followers to be rubes. -- -Rob. (...) (24 years ago, 25-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Alan Gerber

(...) I remember that, right after the original post by Brad; but also, sometime long ago, someone posted as another person in a manner to Scott, and received a similar punishment(I beleive). (24 years ago, 25-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Frank Filz

(...) It amazes me that anyone thinks it's anything of difficulty. As soon as I thought about exactly how I set up Netscape to be able to post to newsgroups (Usenet or Lugnet), I realized that there is nothing to it, so no need to test it. When I (...) (24 years ago, 26-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.admin.nntp)

Re: Are we all too nice? (new name) —Stephen A. Campbell

(...) I would like to politely offer another suggestion for the name of the group lugnet.vent I poffer this alternative because it is my opinion (and I am not attempting to foist my own humble opinion on anyone) that Lugnetters will, at times, need (...) (24 years ago, 25-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? (new name) —Kevin Salm

(...) I prefer this term, also. Flaming could and would be allowed here, but even general ranting and raving not directed at any specific individual would be appropriate here. A good example of this might be: Instead of posting to lugnet.dear-lego (...) (24 years ago, 26-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? (new name) —Christopher L. Weeks

(...) I certainly hope that there would be non-targetted venting, but I think that diluting the purpose of this group too much would be a mistake. I hope that it will be used infrequently, and adding appropriate topics/styles makes that less likely. (...) (24 years ago, 26-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? (new name) —Todd Lehman

(...) Put that in .dear-lego, with followups to .general or wherever. Or if you don't want to specially draw attention to it, put it in .general. There's nothing that says that venting can't happen in .general. (...) I think my point got missed (...) (24 years ago, 26-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? (new name) —Frank Filz

(...) Ooh, I'd really rather not see such venting in .general. Keep it in .dear-lego (and I'd actually like to see separate groups .dear-lego.vent and .dear-lego.constructive (for constructive criticism or suggestions). I'd really like to see the (...) (24 years ago, 27-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? (new name) —Alex Farlie

(...) View supported. My suggestion is to perhaps create the following new groups... In the lugnet.lego.direct hirearchy. lugnet.lego.direct.complaints ( Polite complaints reagarding The Lego groups,products, services or bussiness practices..) (...) (24 years ago, 27-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Eric Kingsley

OK I think its time to give Todd some real feedback on this so I will get it started... (...) Simple answer... Yes! A simple answer doesn't tell Todd what he is looking for so read on. (...) Well I am not a psycologist or a sociologist but my (...) (24 years ago, 26-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —James Simpson

(...) Todd: I'm really against the idea of a flame-dedicated newsgroup. IMO, that would be stooping to the lowest common denominator. Civility, politeness, good manners, and measured social restraint are virtues which are seldom practiced, but which (...) (24 years ago, 26-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Christopher L. Weeks

In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Todd Lehman writes: [snippage throughout] (...) No. There is no such thing. Eric Kingsley took this completely in the direction of constructive criticism toward creative works. And he's right that the only valuable (...) (24 years ago, 26-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Frank Filz

(...) Actually, I'd argue against that idea. There are ways which comments which don't suggest change can be good: - Positive re-inforcement. If your idea is good, and you are complemented, you are encouraged to keep doing more. If you get no (...) (24 years ago, 27-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Eric Kingsley

(...) First I should clarify that while I used creative works as an example I did say in my post that it can apply to different aspects of LUGNET. (...) Well I would suggest, as has been stated earlier, that is what the article highlighting is for. (...) (24 years ago, 27-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

ratings vs. feedback (was Re: Are we all too nice? —Larry Pieniazek

This is a digression about ratings and feedback, not on topic for the "too nice" question per se. (...) I'm not sure I totally agree. Call me elitist, but a "hey that's cool!" from Karim Nasser for a spaceship I built would mean MUCH more to me than (...) (24 years ago, 27-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Tom Stangl

I'll support this - generally, when someone posts about their new MOCs, I don't immediately go to the site. I wait for comments from others, and if it sounds interesting, THEN I go. Especially since people don't post very many details about their (...) (24 years ago, 30-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Eric Joslin

Ok, I've thought about it for a couple of days. (...) I don't know about that. Here's why: If something on Usenet truly offends me, I tend not to complain about it. Why not? Because there is no Usenet admin who can be expected to be looking out for (...) (24 years ago, 26-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Christopher L. Weeks

(...) I think this should be user configurable. It could be handled like the skip filters, except default to being filtered out. This also leads me to something that I've been thinking would be valuable. I wish the dots were colored or shaded or (...) (24 years ago, 26-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Eric Joslin

(...) I thought about recommending that the skip-filter be set for the group to automatically be excluded, but given the cookie nature of the feature, I'm not sure that's possible. I certainly think that by default no one should see the flame group, (...) (24 years ago, 26-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Ross Crawford

(...) Maybe we need off-topic.class-warfare??? 8?) ROSCO FU .off-topic.fun (24 years ago, 26-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —James Brown

(...) I don't think so, no. More below, obviously. (...) I don't think this is an issue - or shouldn't be, anyway. No one is (to my knowledge) plugged into Lugnet 24 by 7, so the constraints Lugnet imposes are not inherently carried over into other (...) (24 years ago, 26-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —David Eaton

(...) I would argue yes. I think that's been made self evident; see Eric Kingsley's post. "good job", "me too", etc., are all great to hear when you're the one getting the praise, but: A. it doesn't help you, save your ego perhaps. B. to many (...) (24 years ago, 26-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Frank Filz

(...) Not true. I do a lot of my reading from nntp. I don't see the ratings (nor can I make them). I pretty much ignore the rating system (I haven't seen any proposals of how it would be used which would really be effective, one problem is not (...) (24 years ago, 27-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Tom Stangl

(...) Ditto - I think I've used the web interface to post ONCE (while I was in a class with only web access). I don't find any of the "whizbang" web news interface stuff very useful, considering I almost never see it. -- Tom Stangl ***(URL) Visual (...) (24 years ago, 30-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Jude Beaudin

(...) Yes. (...) IMHO, it is right to expect polite behaviour in certain settings. Should a child tell off their parents? Should you tell off the judge sentencing you? Should you tell off your friend saving you a seat on the bus? Should you tell off (...) (24 years ago, 26-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Dan Boger

(...) I'm not sure I understand... such a "vent" group would be like any other newsgroup - you only read it if and when you want... moreso, it will not appear in any of the brief views, and cannot be xposted to or from... if it bothers people, they (...) (24 years ago, 26-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Jim Hughes

Well, I have read all of these latest developments with some concern and thought that a few comments were in order. For the most part I am a little below the radar for the off-topic/debate crowd but I still read a pretty fair percentage of the posts (...) (24 years ago, 26-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Ross Crawford

(...) [snip] (...) meltdown (...) I agree whole-heartedly. I've long subscribed to the view that praise should be public, abuse private. People should be encouraged to use e-mail if they have a problem with a particular person - why does anyone feel (...) (24 years ago, 27-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Frank Filz

(...) A counterpoint on this is that there are people who spar pretty hard in .debate who otherwise are the best of friends. Of course there is a difference in that the culture of .debate encourages attempting to stay above the muck and _debate_ not (...) (24 years ago, 27-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Larry Pieniazek

(...) OK, I have given this a while to percolate. I admit I am ambivalent. There are good (but not stunningly great) arguments advanced for, and against, the idea of a ventilation group. I won't do the three reasons exercise as I think all of mine (...) (24 years ago, 27-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Matt Sekerak

IMO, Lugnet is a mirror of our inner child - a safe harbor for sharing the mutual appreciation of an imagination-enabling toy. With reagard to Lugnet.vent, Lugnet.darkside or whatever we may call it, I believe it is a recipe for disaster. Doesn't (...) (24 years ago, 29-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Selçuk Göre

Todd Lehman wrote: <snip> (...) <snip> Todd, of course you have the rule, and it will be your decision at the end but since you asked for opinions, I go for a very strong NO! You have reasons to consider for doing such a thing but I don't believe it (...) (24 years ago, 27-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Christopher L. Weeks

(...) This is absolutely true. If you write that (or worse) to/about me, I won't forget it and you will basically forever count as worthless in my book. And I won't ever seperate that from other contributions that you might make. I think this is the (...) (24 years ago, 27-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Tom Stangl

(...) I hate to say it, but that's YOUR shortcoming (ignoring whether what the other person said was proof a shortcoming or not). I also take things personally....for a while. Usually a very short while. Rarely a very long time. I don't think (...) (24 years ago, 30-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Richard W. Schamus

(...) <snip> I've been hanging around RTL and Lugnet for years now. When I first heard about Todd's plan to create Lugnet I was extreemly happy, thinking foolishly that the kind of flamewars people engaged in would stay out of this place. Sadly, I (...) (24 years ago, 27-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Erik Olson

This seems like as good a place as any to hang my hat on this thread. I find the question horrifying. From the analogies offered about condoms in schools and needle parks, might not the question be rephrased "Are we all too drug-free?" (or the other (...) (24 years ago, 28-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Jason Rowoldt

<snip an interesting idea> Well, here's my $.02. I think there are enough catagories/groups already. I don't see how another one will do any good. How does *.debate not fulfill this already? Want to put flamewars in perspective? Try the forums over (...) (24 years ago, 27-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —James Brown

In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Todd Lehman writes: <major, indiscriminate snippage> (...) Well, having thought about this long and hard (and having been digging around in the dusty back halls of Lugnet today), I think that an off-site solution already (...) (24 years ago, 27-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Jude Beaudin

(...) Me likes it. :-D Jude (24 years ago, 27-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Kyle D. Jackson

(...) Okay, I read it and left it for a few days. I'll be honest that I didn't really think about it that much in that time. But here's my thoughts. (...) Nothing wrong with being "too nice". But there is also nothing wrong with being politely (...) (24 years ago, 29-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Are we all too nice? —Markus Wolf

(...) I'm against it, but to fulfill the request Reasons For a Flame Group 1) Could be the "Soup of the Day" in terms of hot topics 2) You could really hurt someone if you wanted to 3) Good place to send the undesireables Reasons Against a Flame (...) (24 years ago, 30-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)