Subject:
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Re: Who oversees the rec.toys.LEGO newsgroup?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:10:42 GMT
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Viewed:
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758 times
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Peter Callaway wrote:
> do you believe we should expose kids to absolutely
> everything as soon as possible and let them sort it out?
Right, the bow's too long. No I don't. Some things can hurt them. The
goal is to expose them (or allow exposure - rather than creating it) to
the things which will help them to build their minds and character.
> My point is that (a)
> they lack the maturity to do this, and (b) why burden them with this when
> there is plenty of time for it in the future.
I don't think that profanity is a burden. We may disagree on other
things too. I don't think it hurts children to hear about sexual
practices to whatever degree they're interested either. Mostly kids are
bored by that stuff.
> It is a lack of respect, and unfortunately it is difficult to put a child out
> on his ass (I generally don't like profanity, but I'm not a prude) with the
> current school legal system in place (I'm sure it is similar in your country).
Yes. It sounds very similar. I spent about eight years getting a
bachelor's and a master's degree in education. In that process I
learned so much about how schools work that I decided I would never
teach in public schools. It is very disheartening to realize/decide
this about your once-certain future.
> Kids (in Australia) have been given all the rights in the world and access to
> all kinds of information and experiences. How do they "say thanks"? By
> throwing it back in our faces. This particular kid's response when told to
> stop was "You can't make me! I know my rights! I'll sue you". Whether he did
> or not and was aware of the implication of his comment is not the issue. The
> fact that he said it indicates that his attitude has been negatively affected
> by the information he posesses, and sadly it is the rule, not the exception.
I disagree. I don't think that his negative attitude stems from
information that he posesses. I think it stems from parents who haven't
sought to instill a profound sense of respect for scholarship. My
children won't grow up thinking that sueing the school for silly stuff
is an option.
> To get back to the respect thing, as we have already defined a mature person
> knows when it is appropriate to use profanity, and the only time it is
> appropriate is when it is know that no-one who will hear the profanity will be
> offended by it. This is true for all talk, not just profanity. It's called • [snip]
> So unless you can define whether someone will be offended by what you're about
> to say, out of respect you should not say it.
OK, this goes off my deep end. People who earn respect are due respect.
A certain amount. This does not include the right to not be offended.
I could try to promote polygamy and it would offend some (many) people.
By your rules of conduct, I shouldn't speak of such things. That's
wrong! Most of the teachers I had were good enough that they didn't
deserve to be F-bombed, but none of them deserved to never be offended
at all.
> Your collegues discussing prostitutes are a classic example.
> How did they know you wouldn't be offended by their discussion? They showed a
> total lack of respect for not only the women they were discussing, but anyone
> who may have heard the conversation.
I think those women gave up the right to that kind of respect by
choosing their line of work. I'm not moralizing about it, I don't even
think that prostitution is 'wrong,' but really, I'm not too concerned
about the lack of respect their clients displayed. As far as respect
for me, I mostly think it was incredibly unprofessional.
> And my comment still stands, would you have
> reacted differently had they been discussing your sister?
What do you mean? If they had called my sister a crack whore, would I
be offended? I supose it would depend on the reality of the statement.
It would make me uncomfortable in any case, but mostly I'd be
embarrassed if my sister were a crack whore.
> > > IMO a child who swears reflects an undiciplined upbringing
> >
> > Really? Regardless of the level of discipline? How odd.
>
> What do you mean by "level of discipline"?
What do you? I mean that I think the use of profanity is completely
seperate from other forms of discipline. What if a thirteen year old
works hard at a paper-route and walking dogs, is pressured to maintain
straight As in school, and volunteers for community assistance through
his church? That adequately displays discipline to me. What if he also
curses?
> > This disturbs me as well, but hiding that kind of language from kids
> > isn't going to instill good attitudes. You are complaining about a very
> > deep and rich problem in modern society. The most important problem we
> > are facing, I think. And you seem to be suggesting that this simple
> > little band-aid will fix it. I think that's absurd.
>
> "The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
That's a fair stance. I think that teaching kids more immediate respect
than such a convoluted for is more appropriate. I suppose actually, I
agree with you more thn I disagree.
> If I was a band-aid solution type of person then the
> realisation of my wish would be beautifly spoken kids running around still
> tearing up the playground.
That's a perfect example. I think teaching the kids to respect their
community and not tear up the park is a better example. Providing a
stronger sense of community. And that may include sticking to community
standards for language used. I'm OK with that, but it should be a side
issue, not the central one.
Christopher Weeks
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: Who oversees the rec.toys.LEGO newsgroup?
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| Ugh...too much work and not enough Lugnet makes Pete a dull boy. I'm actually enjoying this discussion so forgive me if it appears we're flogging a dead horse. (...) So to draw a longish bow do you believe we should expose kids to absolutely (...) (24 years ago, 31-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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