Subject:
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Re: Who oversees the rec.toys.LEGO newsgroup?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 31 Jan 2000 03:22:41 GMT
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Viewed:
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911 times
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Ugh...too much work and not enough Lugnet makes Pete a dull boy. I'm actually
enjoying this discussion so forgive me if it appears we're flogging a dead
horse.
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> I have no problem backing this thesis. It is obviously correct.
> However, the way for them to gain that wisdom is to be allowed to
> experiment and learn. If, as an adult, a person doesn't profane because
> they have a conditioned fear-of-their-father complex, then I would claim
> that they similarly "lack the maturity to use profanity wisely." Only
> when the use of the profanity is a real option, and a person has made
> self-realization regarding the propriety, have they gained that wisdom.
So to draw a longish bow do you believe we should expose kids to absolutely
everything as soon as possible and let them sort it out? My point is that (a)
they lack the maturity to do this, and (b) why burden them with this when
there is plenty of time for it in the future.
> I was free to profane at home, and while I was clearly at an immature
> development, I never did that to teacher. I think that when a child
> does that, what it reflects is a profound lack of respect within that
> child's home. It is also completely messed up that our society would
> force schools to tolerate that. Were I a teacher, that child would be
> out on his ass, never to return. (If the use of the word ass herein
> offends you, you should note that the sentence parses quite nicely if
> you decode ass as the quadraped rather than behind.)
It is a lack of respect, and unfortunately it is difficult to put a child out
on his ass (I generally don't like profanity, but I'm not a prude) with the
current school legal system in place (I'm sure it is similar in your country).
Kids (in Australia) have been given all the rights in the world and access to
all kinds of information and experiences. How do they "say thanks"? By
throwing it back in our faces. This particular kid's response when told to
stop was "You can't make me! I know my rights! I'll sue you". Whether he did
or not and was aware of the implication of his comment is not the issue. The
fact that he said it indicates that his attitude has been negatively affected
by the information he posesses, and sadly it is the rule, not the exception.
To get back to the respect thing, as we have already defined a mature person
knows when it is appropriate to use profanity, and the only time it is
appropriate is when it is know that no-one who will hear the profanity will be
offended by it. This is true for all talk, not just profanity. It's called
discrimination, whether it be racial, sexist, religeous, ageist, visual or
verbal. The anti-discrimination laws in this country can be extended to the
use of profanity, and lets face it, the cops will still book you for using
foul language in public (not speaking from personal experience).
So unless you can define whether someone will be offended by what you're about
to say, out of respect you should not say it. Kids don't exercise this
discression. Kids have an uncanny nack of saying the wrong thing at the wrong
time, and whilst most times this is cute and mildly embarrassing, a child
using profanity offends, irritates and disheartens me. OK, to make a big deal
about it when it happens is also the wrong approach, as they now know
something which upsets the oldies, so the best thing to do is not expose them
to it.
We all respect Todd by not using profanity in Lugnet. I respect my parents by
not using profanity when they can hear or read it. I respect the one or two
people who may be offended by profanity by not using it in a crowded shopping
centre. Nearly every day I am confronted by people who show no such respect,
most of them kids, largely in their early to mid teens, but also a disturbing
number of adults. Your collegues discussing prostitutes are a classic example.
How did they know you wouldn't be offended by their discussion? They showed a
total lack of respect for not only the women they were discussing, but anyone
who may have heard the conversation. Such a discussion over here can find a
person in court quick smart. And my comment still stands, would you have
reacted differently had they been discussing your sister?
> For the record, I meant that to be seem_ed_ as in retrospectively. They
> have had a lot of time to change too. And, when I was about thirteen,
> and every other word was 'F' this or 'F' that, my dad pointed out how
> illiterate I sounded and a nearly immediate and profound change took
> place in the way I expressed myself.
I thought that's what you meant. Sorry, grammer isn't up to scratch, engineers
don't speak real good like. But you make my point again! ;-)
> > IMO a child who swears reflects an undiciplined upbringing
>
> Really? Regardless of the level of discipline? How odd.
What do you mean by "level of discipline"?
> I don't see this stance as hypocritical, just odd. You assert that kids
> shouldn't be confronted with swearing from early on. Why?
See above.
> This disturbs me as well, but hiding that kind of language from kids
> isn't going to instill good attitudes. You are complaining about a very
> deep and rich problem in modern society. The most important problem we
> are facing, I think. And you seem to be suggesting that this simple
> little band-aid will fix it. I think that's absurd.
"The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step" (ancient Chinese
proverb - I think). I'm not professing that fixing up the language of society
in general and kids specifically is going to solve the world's problems, but
it's a small start, and one which we can actively participate in forums such
as Lugnet, and not just because them's the rules.
I don't believe in band-aid solutions, and my wish for cleaner language in
kids is only a start. If I was a band-aid solution type of person then the
realisation of my wish would be beautifly spoken kids running around still
tearing up the playground. Like I said, it's a start, and I think a good and
important one. And since you recognise what I'm talking about as being "the
most important problem we are facing" then surely you must agree.
Pete Callaway
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Who oversees the rec.toys.LEGO newsgroup?
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| (...) Right, the bow's too long. No I don't. Some things can hurt them. The goal is to expose them (or allow exposure - rather than creating it) to the things which will help them to build their minds and character. (...) I don't think that (...) (25 years ago, 31-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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