 | | More Orwell, for everyone!
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(...) Mmmmm. I have long advocated that 1984 should be required reading in the last year of high school education. And the older I get, the louder I hear it echoed in the world around me. Maybe that's me, maybe its the world. The other thing I have (...) (20 years ago, 10-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: More Orwell, for everyone!
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(...) There's also the small issue that it costs a lot of money to do that. Who is going to pay for it? (20 years ago, 10-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: More Orwell, for everyone!
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(...) Oh I don't know. I'd put it somewhere around the $300m mark. I never cease to be amazed at how much money we spend on advertising programmes to alert the general public as to how nice and clever the government thinks it is, particularly with (...) (20 years ago, 11-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Educational value of travel (was: More Orwell, for everyone!)
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(...) You know, I'm not immediately opposed to the idea of including a two year stint abroad in every undergraduate education. I don't know about an around-world-tour, but two years in another nation -- half study and half peace corps like service (...) (20 years ago, 11-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Educational value of travel (was: More Orwell, for everyone!)
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(...) A year abroad is already a mandatory part of many courses in EU countries. Even where it is not, the (URL) makes it easy. A year studying overseas forces students to be more independent and take ownership of their own learning (rather than (...) (20 years ago, 11-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | More waste (was Re: More Orwell, for everyone!
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(...) (snipped the rest away) Precisely. I think you mean the taxpayer, in other words. Bollocks. If you found A$300M that's not needed, how about this for an idea... give it BACK to the taxpayers you taxed in the first place instead of spending it (...) (20 years ago, 11-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | The Real Waste Re: More waste (was Re: More Orwell, for everyone!
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(...) One has to (URL) the Balance Right>: today's Undergrad's are tomorrow's tax payers. The better the education they get today, the more they can earn (and contribute back) in the future. Why not base education on ability to learn not ability to (...) (20 years ago, 11-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The Real Waste Re: More waste (was Re: More Orwell, for everyone!
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(...) Because that doesn't account for the desire to learn. If you truly want to learn, you'll find a way to pay. Your way rewards intelligent lazy people (you?). I'd say there's a balance somewhere, but you haven't got it right either. And since (...) (20 years ago, 11-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The Real Waste Re: More waste (was Re: More Orwell, for everyone!
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(...) I don't know. I fear the room for draconian restrictions placed on "ability to learn" based on who gets to decide. Do you just mean it should be free to all period or that there should be entrance requirements and expulsion criteria? I'd hate (...) (20 years ago, 11-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Real Waste Re: More waste (was Re: More Orwell, for everyone!
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(...) Good students have desire and ability. Good courses should only take students with both qualities... … to do anything else is a waste of everyone’s time. (...) Why so? Or are you too lazy to explain yourself? The song is rather dated now, but (...) (20 years ago, 11-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The Real Waste Re: More waste (was Re: More Orwell, for everyone!
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(...) The latter. (...) Entry should be based on evidence of previous educational attainment (e.g. school results). Good school kids normally make good UG students. Basically, nobody who meets the entrance standards should be rejected because they (...) (20 years ago, 11-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: More waste
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(...) A very fine idea (the reducing the overall tax burden part), if there's no sufficiently constructive use to which to put the money. A very popular call too - don't waste my money on other people or the future, give it back to me. Obviously we (...) (20 years ago, 11-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The Real Waste (lyrics from Fashion News)
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(...) An interesting choice. And what you might say with irony I say with conviction (1). These lyrics would be a fine theme. I'd say Scott is trying to change some people's 'facts', because their 'facts' just aren't. As the song points out - you (...) (20 years ago, 11-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The Real Waste (lyrics from Quick Fashion)
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(...) Personally, I (URL) Can’t Get Enough>. ;) Scott A (20 years ago, 11-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The Real Waste (lyrics from Fashion News)
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(...) Yes, but simply reprinting the counter-clockwise spin is a rather poor way of "challenging" things. (...) Sorry about that. Scott pointed out the site, not me, and I didn't see the pop-ups because Mozilla filters them out. You should try it. (...) (20 years ago, 11-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The Real Waste (lyrics from Fashion News)
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(...) Don, If you really think that is what I'm doing, please just show us the "facts" and prove me wrong. You'll find it much easier than quoting song lyrics to make a point... if you have one! ;) Scott A (...) (20 years ago, 11-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | when you change the facts
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(...) I'm not sure I agree that that is what the song is about. I think it is saying there are two types of news stories (facts): Real news: "Bomb blast victim fights for life". Celebrity tittle-tattle: "Princess Di is wearing a new dress". Gore's (...) (20 years ago, 11-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: when you change the facts
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(...) Happy to defer to the Depeche Mode experts. As always, can only talk with certainty about what it means to me :-) Richard Still baldly going (20 years ago, 11-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The Real Waste (lyrics from Fashion News)
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(...) Goodness. There's a lot more to it than that. I was surprised that you discount it so easily, but that's my mistake. Obviously I should expect that there are avidly pro-establishment folks who treat naysayers with the same disdain I feel when (...) (20 years ago, 12-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: when you change the facts
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(...) Now this would be NEWS ! Can't this fashion victim just leave us alone. (...) Next thing they will tell us, is that H.Paul is representing New Zealand in International Rugby League Test matches. (20 years ago, 12-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The Real Waste (lyrics from Fashion News)
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(...) Yeah, but quoting song lyrics is so much more fun. In a way, I suppose that is my point. :) Don (20 years ago, 12-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The Real Waste Re: More waste (was Re: More Orwell, for everyone!
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(...) Perhaps, but that doesn't help us right the balance in in your proposal above. (...) I'm truly surprised you haven't suggested one obvious solution. Why not let the government regulate the wages of those overpaid, barely working university (...) (20 years ago, 12-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | "free" at the point of delivery
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(...) I have no idea what you are talking about; I have never set foot in a US university. As an aside, I understand university "professors" in the US do not get paid out of term-time? (...) Read what I said. It is only "free" at the point of (...) (20 years ago, 14-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: when you change the facts
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(...) Who cares about Rugby League? That said, I'm now (URL) loosing> interest in Union too. Scott A (20 years ago, 14-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: "free" at the point of delivery
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(...) I never mentioned the US. Take your blinders off, or open your eyes. I know. It's Monday. (...) Exactly what I'm talking about. It should not be free at the point of delivery because that simply produces over-educated idealists with no concept (...) (20 years ago, 14-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: "free" at the point of delivery
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(...) 2 Points then: 1. What experience do you have of Universities outside the USA? 2. What makes you think "professors" are "overpaid"? (...) First you will have to show me that "free" education produces "idealists with no concept of the real (...) (20 years ago, 14-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The Real Waste
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(...) Is this considered an issue in the US? Apart from the odd mindlessly populist talk radio presenter, its not here. Its hard to know whether Don's being insightful, inciteful, sarcastic, or just pointlessly talkative. I am trying hard to (...) (20 years ago, 14-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: "free" at the point of delivery
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(...) Either you're extremely sensitive about this, or you must've missed the winky. That was intended to be an absurd example to bring something you said earlier (and eventually snipped) into perspective. But if you wish, I suppose you could (...) (20 years ago, 14-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: "free" at the point of delivery
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(...) I have the impression that in nations with a richer socialist tradition (like the UK), it is much more acceptable to accept from the public coffers the kind of aid that's being discussed here and in turn, to take seriously the responsibility (...) (20 years ago, 14-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The Real Waste
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(...) People say things like that occasionally, but I don't think it's an endemic view. I know a few professors and they're all quite underpaid -- by which I mean they could be working in the private sector and making twice as much or more for (...) (20 years ago, 14-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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