Subject:
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Re: Liberterian comes through for the Bill of Rights (was a slur
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sun, 14 Oct 2001 10:07:58 GMT
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Viewed:
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393 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> > > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
> > > > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> > > > > Oh, and another thing, before you accuse others of calling names, you might
> > > > > want to avoid doing the same yourself, your subject line is a deliberate
> > > > > slur... unbacked by any fact
> > > >
> > > > I'm not sure about that. It looks like the guy is a libertarian (do you
> > > > dispute that?)
> > >
> > > No. In fact we had a dustup in the past about whether he was or not and I
> > > was saying he was.
> > >
> > > > and that this bill may help catch the bad guys (do you
> > > > dispute that?).
> > >
> > > Yes I do dispute that.
> >
> > On what grounds?
>
> On the grounds that it may well be a flawed bill.
"may well" is not "is"
> I haven't found an article
> that cites which bill it is so it could be any of these:
>
> (from http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query)
>
> 50 Bills from the 107th Congress ranked by relevance on"money laundering ".
>
> 42 bills containing your phrase exactly as entered.
> 0 bills containing all your search words near each other in any order.
> 8 bills containing all your search words but not near each other.
> 0 bills containing one or more of your search words.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Listing of 42 bills containing your phrase exactly as entered.
>
> 1 . International Counter-Money Laundering and Foreign Anticorruption Act of
> 2001 (Introduced in the House)[H.R.1114.IH]
> 2 . International Counter-Money Laundering and Foreign Anticorruption Act of
> 2001 (Introduced in the Senate)[S.398.IS]
> 3 . International Money Laundering Abatement and Anti-Terrorist Financing
> Act of 2001 (Placed on the Calendar in the Senate)[S.1511.PCS]
> 4 . Money Laundering Prevention Act (Introduced in the House)[H.R.2978.IH]
> 5 . Money Laundering Abatement Act (Introduced in the Senate)[S.1371.IS]
> 6 . Money Laundering Act of 2001 (Introduced in the House)[H.R.2979.IH]
> 7 . Financial Anti-Terrorism Act of 2001 (Introduced in the House)[H.R.3004.IH]
> 8 . USA Act of 2001 (Introduced in the Senate)[S.1510.IS]
> 9 . USA Act of 2001 (Placed on the Calendar in the Senate)[S.1510.PCS]
> 10 . Internet Gambling Payments Prohibition Act (Introduced in the
> House)[H.R.2579.IH]
> 11 . Unlawful Internet Gambling Funding Prohibition Act (Introduced in the
> House)[H.R.556.IH]
> 12 . To authorize the production of records by the Permanent Subcommittee on
> Investigations of the Committee on Governmental Affairs. (Agreed to by the
> Senate)[S.RES.77.ATS]
> 13 . Bulk Cash Smuggling Act of 2001 (Introduced in the House)[H.R.2920.IH]
> 14 . Bulk Cash Smuggling Act of 2001 (Introduced in the House)[H.R.2922.IH]
> 15 . To suspend for two years the certification procedures under section
> 490(b) of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 in order to foster greater
> multilateral cooperation in international... (Reported in the Senate)[S.219.RS]
> 16 . To authorize additional appropriations for the United States Customs
> Service for personnel, technology, and infrastructure to expedite the flow
> of legal commercial and passenger traffic... (Introduced in the
> Senate)[S.1031.IS]
> 17 . To authorize additional appropriations for the United States Customs
> Service for personnel, technology, and infrastructure to expedite the flow
> of legal commercial and passenger traffic... (Introduced in the
> House)[H.R.2512.IH]
> 18 . To amend the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 to modify for fiscal years
> 2002 through 2004 the procedures relating to assistance for countries not
> cooperating in United States counterdrug... (Introduced in the Senate)[S.376.IS]
> 19 . To provide that a certification of the cooperation of Mexico with
> United States counterdrug efforts not be required in fiscal year 2001 for
> the limitation on assistance for Mexico under... (Introduced in the
> Senate)[S.353.IS]
> 20 . To suspend for two years the certification procedures under section
> 490(b) of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 in order to foster greater
> multilateral cooperation in international... (Introduced in the
> House)[H.R.841.IH]
> 21 . Whereas Vicente Fox Quesada of the Alliance for Change (consisting of
> the National Action Party and the Mexican Green Party) was sworn in as
> President of the United Mexican States on... (Engrossed in
> Senate)[S.CON.RES.13.ES]
> 22 . Expressing the sense of Congress with respect to the upcoming trip of
> President George W. Bush to Mexico to meet with newly elected President
> Vicente Fox, and with respect to future... (Referred in House)[S.CON.RES.13.RFH]
> 23 . Expressing the sense of Congress with respect to the upcoming trip of
> President George W. Bush to Mexico to meet with newly elected President
> Vicente Fox, and with respect to future... (Introduced in the
> House)[H.CON.RES.35.IH]
> 24 . Expressing the sense of Congress with respect to the upcoming trip of
> President George W. Bush to Mexico to meet with newly elected President
> Vicente Fox, and with respect to future... (Agreed to by the
> Senate)[S.CON.RES.13.ATS]
> 25 . To suspend for two years the certification procedures under section
> 490(b) of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 in order to foster greater
> multilateral cooperation in international... (Introduced in the
> Senate)[S.219.IS]
> 26 . 21st Century Law Enforcement, Crime Prevention, and Victims Assistance
> Act (Introduced in the Senate)[S.16.IS]
> 27 . SOLIDARIDAD Act of 2001 (Introduced in the Senate)[S.894.IS]
> 28 . Financial Privacy and National Security Enhancement Act (Introduced in
> the House)[H.R.3068.IH]
> 29 . Caribbean Regional Assistance Act of 2001 (Introduced in the
> House)[H.R.502.IH]
> 30 . Clean Diamonds Act (Introduced in the House)[H.R.918.IH]
> 31 . Russian Democracy Act of 2001 (Introduced in the House)[H.R.2121.IH]
> 32 . Drug-Free America Act of 2001 (Introduced in the Senate)[S.89.IS]
> 33 . Provide Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism
> (PATRIOT) Act of 2001 (Reported in the House)[H.R.2975.RH]
> 34 . Amateur Sports Integrity Act (Reported in the Senate)[S.718.RS]
> 35 . Financial Information Privacy Protection Act of 2001 (Introduced in the
> Senate)[S.30.IS]
> 36 . Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 2002 (Referred in
> Senate)[H.R.2590.RFS]
> 37 . Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 2002 (Engrossed in
> House )[H.R.2590.EH]
> 38 . Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 2002 (Placed on the
> Calendar in the Senate)[S.1398.PCS]
> 39 . Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 2002 (Reported in
> the House)[H.R.2590.RH]
> 40 . Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 2002 and 2003 (Placed
> on the Calendar in the Senate)[S.1401.PCS]
> 41 . Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 2002 (Engrossed
> Senate Amendment)[H.R.2590.EAS]
> 42 . Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 2002 (Public
> Print)[H.R.2590.PP]
>
>
> or even some bill that doesn't have Money Laundering in it somewhere.
>
> If YOU know which one it is exactly I'll analyse it in depth.
So you have no basis for *your* mudslinging??? Have you no shame?
> Till then, I
> tend to trust Ron Paul's judgement on this more than yours, since I don't
> have time to read all 42 to see which one it is.
>
> > > And even if it does help, which I dispute, it's not
> > > necessarily a good idea.
> > >
> > > We *could* pass a law requiring all airline passengers to travel completely
> > > naked with all baggage checked, which might help stop hijackings but that
> > > doesn't make it a good idea, or aligned with the bill or rights.
> >
> > You are being silly.
>
> See, this is why I get high marks in Debating skills on Dave's score card
> and you came nowhere near that. I've given an example of a law that CLEARLY
> would help stop hijackings. After all, it denies the terrorist a place to
> hide his weapons (or bomb control remote). Do you dispute that it would help
> stop hijackings to require nudity? If so, please explain.
Why do we want to stop hijackings? To protect life and commerce? Your
proposal will not do the latter.
>
> But it's a *silly* idea. That was the *point*... it stops a class of
> hijackings (the class that required a weapon concealed on your person) yet
> it *nevertheless* is unconstitutional and is a *bad idea*.
>
> Your best argument against my demonstrating the principle that not all bills
> that accomplish X are necessarily a good idea even if accomplishing X is
> itself a good idea or desirable goal... your best argument against that...
> is to slur me by saying "you are being silly".
>
> Hardly.
You were taking a principle to its illogical extreme. That is silly and
non-productive.
>
> > > And
> > > opposing stupid bills does not make you pro terrorist.
> >
> > I'm not saying that. I don't want to speak for Ed, but I don't think he is
> > either.
>
> Yes, he did, see the original subject line.
Which you have not shown to be inaccurate.
>
> > > Saying so is a
> > > deliberate slur.
> > >
> > > Unless you are ok with me saying YOU are pro-terrorist because you oppose
> > > LEGO's charity decisions and would rather they chose something more to your
> > > personal liking? That's just as unfounded of a label.
>
> Again, your poor debating skills and poor reading comprehension shine
> through clearly. I gave an example of something that would be an unfounded
> label and what do you do? Instead of agreeing that it's an unfounded label,
> you defend the action. You missed the point. Again.
Nope. Even if the bill is poor. Its aim is still to counter terrorism. By
criticising the bill (even with grounds) one could be criticised as being
soft on terrorism by critics (the bills supporters). Logic was involved in
my argument. It is deficient in yours.
>
> Read more carefully.
>
> Think before speaking.
>
> Don't always post 3 different half baked responses to the same post and then
> beat up those that don't respond to each and every post of yours.
>
> I am going to try to take Davids advice and, except where it is critical to
> do so because you are egregiously slurring (a kind of lie, by the way) or
> lieing or misrepresenting, ignore you. Said it before, but I'm going to try.
You mean you can't answer my points?
Scott A
>
> ++:Lar
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