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in order to have a favorable opinion of
> > "Communism," one must divorce it from the context of Marx, Lenin or Mao, and
> > the former U.S.S.R.
>
> And from reality, apparently.
>
> If every time a real example is pointed out, the apologists say "well that
> one wasn't really Ccommunism" or "well, this one can't work because of
> outside agency X interfering" it isn't much of a system, is it? A robust
> system needs to work even when things aren't ideal.
>
> Communism will only work in a utopia, and even then only under fallacious
> assumptions. There are no utopias, in case you hadn't noticed.
I'll add in here, that Libertopia is just as much of a separation from reality
as a true communist nation. (hmm...and me in my Sun, Sea and Socalism t-shirt)
:)
I think that you need to see where the rest of the world is now in relation to
where it was in 1850 or even 1900 to compare how communist we are as societies
(at least, outside of the US). It takes work to starve yourself to death in
any of the major western nations...and 1857 isn't that long ago (Potato
Famine).
Do I think that Communism is the ideal political system? No, but I do think it
is a far sight better for the majority than capitalism. I can quote some
statistics, here from BC- 50% of the wealth is in 5% of the peoples hands. I'd
rather see some of that wealth redistributed myself...It isn't as bad as it has
been, but it isn't as good as it has been for the majority of people.
Do people deserve to be rewarded for hard work? Yes, I think so. I think that
an appropriate figure for the above is something more like 20-25% of the wealth
being concentrated in the top 5% of the population though, rather than 50%.
(mind you, I do believe we have had this discussion before...)
No Parisian!
James Powell
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Cuba
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| (...) No. It doesn't claim to be a utopia and it doesn't claim to need ideal conditions in order to succeed and it doesn't depend on everyone being good, or being idealistic, or even having the same goals. Hope that helps. (23 years ago, 28-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Cuba
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| (...) Wait, Sun Yat-Sen wasn't a communist! :) (...) Oops! The Potato Famine is a case of imperial exploitation, not a failure of capitalism. It's also 1840s to about 1852, not 1857. :) (...) The question is what the basis for redistribution must (...) (23 years ago, 28-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Cuba
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| (...) I'd go with the utilitarian argument that people don't seem to have much in the way of choices, material goods, freedom of expression, action, or movement, and some desperately want to leave to the extent of risking their lives to do so. Will (...) (23 years ago, 28-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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