 | | Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed...
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(...) If you'll modify that to "some" rather than "much", I'll agree (mostly support to him being a thorn in the side of Ayatollah wackos in Iran, but then, there's a certain sense of deja vu in the U.S. screwing around with things there, too). (...) (20 years ago, 7-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Yeah. You know, this whole topic would be easier if one of two things would happen: either privatize the armed services -- eliminating any need to deal with this kind of situation any differently than any other contractual obligation, or (...) (20 years ago, 7-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed...
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(...) yet (...) assert that (...) desertion. (...) of (...) up. (...) Hmm, interesting question. I tend to feel that you should have known what was possible before signing up. Anyone who is active now has had an opportunity to bail out, or should (...) (20 years ago, 7-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed...
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(...) Much of which he did with US support. (...) Seriously, was he any worse in 2003 than some of the human rights abusers Bush supports today? I’m talking about countries like Saudi Arabia, Israel, Azerbaijan and Uzbekistan. Scott A (...) (20 years ago, 7-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Why? I find myself with complicated reactions to the situation that I haven't yet worked through. Were they dodging slavery (the draft), then I would assert that they had the moral high ground and I would be supportive of their desertion. But (...) (20 years ago, 7-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Win-win-win?
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(...) Well that has failed. The WMD are apparently AWOL, the whole country looks like a giant terrorist recruiting centre and it is clear that the "threat" to us all is (URL) increasing>! (...) Yep. We killed >10,000, put new torturers in the (...) (20 years ago, 7-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Yeah, I'm with John! What does it matter if Americans die needlessly and have their resources wasted as long as it is happening Out of Sight! ;-) Hunky-dory. No relation to Shiri Dori. Or were you being ebonical? -->Bruce<-- (20 years ago, 6-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed...
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(...) That he is a genocidal tyrant that has additionally invaded two of his neighbors soley to steal their resources springs to mind. Or are you saying that Saddam's actions are "just"? (...) Unjust things happen during any war - however, from a (...) (20 years ago, 6-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Would you mind providing why you think this? I think we'd all agree that war, all things being equal, tends to be unjust. Furthermore, Saddam was the recognized (by us) legitimate ruler of a sovereign nation. He did thumb his nose at UN (...) (20 years ago, 6-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed...
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(...) It's stupid, it's not what we claim it's about, it's presentation of the facts are wrong, it's not worth our effort, there are better things for us to pursue, and I can go on and on. But overthrowing Saddam in itself is not "unjust". (...) (20 years ago, 6-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Oh that's simple then--there's the base line right there! We can kick at the ant hill all we want and so long as the ants don't come and attack us directly, then things are honkey dory! We can get the hornets all nice and angry by throwing (...) (20 years ago, 6-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed...
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Your sons and daughters who don't want to go to Iraq to die in an unjust war... (URL) legalities aside, do soldiers have a right to 'get out' if they feel that a war their particular country is fighting is unjust? Was there another way out for these (...) (20 years ago, 6-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) I'm talking about *today* (...) I mean Bush has engineered a situation whereby OBL’s foot soldiers are apparently crawling all over Iraq... a country apparently full of WMD! (...) Nice try. I did not say that. (What is your point?) (...) I (...) (20 years ago, 6-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Along with everybody else. (...) What exactly do you mean? Yes, there are terrorists there to attack Americans. But can you not see that we are not the only targets? What if, tomorrow, we were to evacuate completely from Iraq? Do you think (...) (20 years ago, 6-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) If you do think he had WMD, are you not concerned that Bush has engineered a situation whereby OBL’s foot soldiers are apparently crawling all over the country? Scott A (20 years ago, 6-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) I stand corrected. I noticed my gaff after I posted:-( Though it isn't your stance, it is a common misconception that is held. I apologize for attributing it to you:-) (...) Our main objective was eliminating a dangerous threat in the person (...) (20 years ago, 6-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) John, don't be silly. (URL) Bush has no interest in democracy>. (...) Saddam held "elections" after he installed himself too. ;) (...) I note you do not counter my argument. (...) I note you do not counter my argument. (...) I note you do not (...) (20 years ago, 5-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) No. We replaced an errant CIA stooge with a compliant one. ;) (...) Read (URL): Many Iraqis believe the decision to launch military action against the regime of Saddam Hussein was unwarranted, according to a poll by Oxford Research (...) (20 years ago, 5-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Actually, I'd say your misquote of me is the gross distortion (see the first line in the quote sequence for the correct claim). :-) (...) I still don't see what your point is here beyond controlling that flow (your original point was how it (...) (20 years ago, 4-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Knights' Kingdom™ is ugly.
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(...) Sorry about that; I didn't mean to rip on Playmobil. I do think they're a nice toy, just not as fun as LEGO. That's why I added the "on acid" part. (20 years ago, 3-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | I fear we are about to create yet another martyr.
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(...) My comment was also meant to cover expedient “trial” of the chap caught abusing prisoners in Iraq… I think it lasted ~1 hour. (...) I don't have time to list my concerns about SH’s appearance yesterday. It is suffice to say that I have yet to (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Sovereign, maybe, democratic no way. At least until proper elections take place, Iraq is still a technical dictatorship. So call it whatever else you want to at this stage. (...) You may be right, but I wouldn't be so vehement in condemning (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Awww. "Haliburton" again???? (...) Awww. More "puppet" talk? (...) We always could, even from SH if we wanted! (...) But that is precisely my point-- OBL was acting independently from the policies of his country, so equating the nationality of (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) At the request of the sovereign, democratic nation of Iraq. (...) Look again. You'll see elections are on the horizon-- a concept quite foreign to dictators. (...) I have no response to the ignorance of this one. (...) If that is not the (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) The last time I looked Bush: had ~140,000 troops in Iraq. had installed a dictator in iraq. was conducting show trials there. If that is not control, what is? (...) ...and where is that oil flowing to? Your "SUV" perhaps? (...) I'm not (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) John's right. Haliburton will make it's money just from infrastructure contracts, the oil in this case is almost secondary. And anyway, the puppet democrazy that we establish isn't going to be hostile to us even if the people are. So we'll get (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Oh well, I guess the US should just try to take over the whole world now - they have no more credibility to lose. ROSCO (20 years ago, 2-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Fine; put it this way: there are a great deal of countries on both sides. Saying "the world clearly thinks it isn't obvious" is a gross distortion. (...) Not controlling the flow of oil (or do you have cites for that?), but enabling the free (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) Hmmmm appears I may have got some suspect intelligence on that one. ROSCO (20 years ago, 2-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Yep, just got back from camping and I sees that the Lie-berals managed to squeak thru. Now with the wonderfulness that is a 'minority gov't', Canada can possibly look forward to another election within two years (the longest minority gov't in (...) (20 years ago, 1-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) Bush Jr: "freedom is beautiful". Scott A (...) (20 years ago, 1-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) Not sure (URL) he> was ever there, but he's not there now... "In June 2003, Padilla was designated an enemy combatant at the order of President George W. Bush. As as result of this designation, he was removed from the U.S. criminal justice (...) (20 years ago, 1-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) (Puts on pedantic hat again) I believe there has been at least one US citizen at said club, name of Jose Padilla, but maybe he has been moved? ROSCO (20 years ago, 30-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) Mmmm, and just when I was thinking that we should quit the allegiance to the Queen thingie, and get all republicy. Particularly me with my pro-Irish sentiments. It turns out that we have already essentially signed up as a US state (and a (...) (20 years ago, 30-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) Mmmmmm. I think that terrorist organisations the world over probably each have something similar in their manifesto. Richard Still baldly going... (20 years ago, 30-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) SH would have far too much to say. I'll eat my hat if we get to hear his defence before the US elections... Bush has too much to hide. (...) Yes. But they may have been asked to ask. ;) The (URL) ICRC> may have helped things along: "Washington (...) (20 years ago, 30-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) I see your point; I suppose I have more faith in your countrymen's self-respect. ;) Anyhow, without the support of Tony B.Liar et al it is doubtful that Bush would be in the mess he is today. The past week or so has shown that his (& the (...) (20 years ago, 29-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Looks like you were wrong ;) I'm anxiously awaiting our own federal election some time later this year. What with that, a US election in Nov, and Tony Blair showing a bit of spirit, maybe the world will seem a different place next year. Then (...) (20 years ago, 30-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) Well, Hussein hasn't been charged yet either, and it's arguable whether or not he will get a "fair & open" trial, but I find it amazing how the US is falling over itself to hand him over, while the Cuba detainees sit & wait for a tribunal that (...) (20 years ago, 30-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) I have hopes for Ralph's Son, Uri Nader -lenny (20 years ago, 29-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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