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(...) In many respects the USA is "Great". But so was Goliath. Economically and Militarly the USA is "great". But, increasingly, it has failed to be morally "Great". (...) You are free to conform to the norm. I would have more respect for your scrap (...) (22 years ago, 4-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: UK gets a raw deal again
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Myself and a couple of friends spent a day there last year when we were cycling through Holland/Belgium. It was a warm day in the sun soaking up the local cultural offerings. It was outside term-time, so it was very quiet and quite relaxing. I doubt (...) (22 years ago, 4-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) "Largest" != greatest. But I think an imperialist attitude is extremely evident in American destinarianism (we're the greatest, therefore everyone else should take our lead). That's going to take us headlong into a bitter squabble with the PRC (...) (22 years ago, 4-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: UK gets a raw deal again
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(...) Or South Africaness/Boerness ;-) Pedro (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) (snip) (...) Hardly. And they still managed to rush in help of the "mother nation" when it was needed - loyalty is still a quality! (...) Maybe this can help explain why there is resentment in Europe against the USA: they made fortune with (...) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: UK gets a raw deal again
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(...) Leiden just happens to be where I lived while on research. Are you not Dutch (the international school)? The surname implies Dutchness. :) I didn't mind living in southwestern Leiden, but I lived north of Leiden-CS and that was less pleasant. (...) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) Amen. (...) Take off:-) (...) Wimps;-) (...) Of course. But it wasn't *our* war yet (although we were exporting like mad to support the allies-- lend-lease, etc) The (...) Well, shouldn't it be thus? (...) Did you hear this on WW... >;^D (...) (...) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) The Chinese sold pasta to italian merchants. They "invented" gunpowder (I am not sure of the date, though). And they chose the ultimate path a great civilization can afford to, they ignored the rest of us *because they could afford to*. And up (...) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: UK gets a raw deal again
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What's so great about Leiden? The only reason I live here is because of the international school in Leiderdorp that our daughter goes to. But I can't wait to leave Leiden behind me again. Do you know it's got the lowest average IQ in the country? (...) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) The usual leftist bilge, Richard? (...) Because freedom and responsibility go hand in hand. Many people don't understand that. (...) Show me in our Constitution where: 1. that is anywhere near the government's responsibility, and 2. why I (...) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) Thank you! :-) (...) I used the expression "differnt context" for some reason. And I did not criticize the USA for any sort of Imperialist attitude, did I? (...) Innacurate: the Britons who originally left found life in the Colonies better; (...) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) It may be because of immigration regulations. (...) That sounds quite a bit simplified. The majority of immigrants come from neighboring countries. There have been a fair number of immigrants from Sweden lately, and they generally move over (...) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) The usual madness, John? We are amongst the most incarcerated people of any nation, and this is by percentage, not just numbers. Why do you suppose that is? One reason, and there are many others, is that we'd rather treat our drug addicts (...) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) And I guess that's also the point here--the gov't can say, 'Yes, we as a nation believe there's a God, but the individuals in the nation can believe whatever they please' and do this without having a 'State Run Religion'. Anywho, this has been (...) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) Thank you Simon, for bringing up Liberia. Any nation whose Constitution guarantees the freedoms of its people deserves to be included among the greatest nations on earth. The table is set for that country-- the possibilities for them are (...) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) free of "Canada's Better, no the US is better" rhetoric): (URL) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) (URL) Dave! (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) OK, against my better judgement I'm going to wade in here. Thank you John for providing your very simple method of calculating greatness (with which I do not agree but I think coming up with a formula for such a thing would be like nailing (...) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes: <snip> (...) God bless us all. K, I'm saying it--I think Canada is the free-est nation on the planet 'cause we're not beholden to some piece of paper written 200+ years ago and therefore the greatest (...) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Question Time is fine television.
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(...) Shh! The overseas entertainment factor is one of the biggest reasons used to justify the "reform" of PMQ’s. Scott A (...) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) Fine. Just show me a better one. (...) And I say again-- pick a greater one. (...) How can one say that we are great because of our people, and OTOH we are a nation of immigrants (people from *other* countries). Our people are (...) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) Most people don't know that the US Army's Psychological Operations sends it's members out as interns at US news organizations. Think I'm kidding? (URL) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) This is one for the first things that I actually agreed with ;) (...) There is nothing with saying the USofA is great. My original issue was with saying it is the "Greatest" nation. The US is great, for numerous reasons which I may expound on, (...) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) Foundation. The fact that he's right is irrelevant. (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) A bunch of immigrants were forced to come here. (...) Um...uh...well...we did! (...) to (...) Actually, I largely agree with this. The core of whatever greatness we have claim to (aside from the dumb luck, which is indisputable) is our (...) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) On the other hand, what have they done recently? Have the Chinese or Egyptians contributed to the world anything of note in the past thousand years? At all time and in all places, every accomplishment is made standing on the backs of giants. (...) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) Where I was coming from wasn't giving anyone a moral scorecard. Just how they had impacted nations that followed. By noting that they were still vital wasn't trying to give any credence to whatever political atmosphere is currently going on, (...) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) I know this is bad form, but I have to apologize for this statement-- I admit I was shooting from the hip there. But here is an evaluation of Norway allegedly being the best place on earth to live (and it's by a Norwegian, no less): (URL) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) Well, let's compare apples to apples here. I said greatest *nation*-- you can hardly compare a nation to a civilization. Take either (...) ...please. (apologizes to Henny;-) which are still very vital world communities today. That's putting it (...) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) No, welcome! I'd acknowledge the United Kingdom as the greatest nation the world (...) That's funny. For those reasons the US gets criticized bitterly... (...) Yeah, and life in Britian became so intolerable for some that they *left* it to (...) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) I will be more inclined to agree that China has continuously been an extremely important civilization, rather than Egypt (which is now only a part of a much wider culture). But yes, you have a point - ultimately, those who came before laid the (...) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) I'm in full agreement with taking into consideration previous civilizations as greater in influence than what is currently the USA of today. Take either China or Egypt, which are still very vital world communities today. Most everything we (...) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Question Time is fine television.
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(...) I mean, I don't know about the Canadian iteration, but I absolutely LOVE PM's Question Time in the UK. They show it at off times on CSPAN and sometimes it's just a hoot. Were it that all government activity were so entertaining. best LFB (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Really, read Stephanson. A large part of it *was* dumb luck, combined with lasseiz-faire attitudes (more out of a realization that the center could not control the edges than anything else) and a cultural touchpoint with the world's preeminent (...) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) Sorry to pop in in this discussion like this, but I dispute this point of yours. I'd acknowledge the United Kingdom as the greatest nation the world has ever seen, even if its context was considerably different (colonial/imperial, I mean). You (...) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) What else would you expect? :-) (...) Well, I meant *in* history, not for all time. The US is the greatest nation to have ever existed, even though we've only been around for 200odd years. Heck, Americans have driven SUVs on the moon-- we've (...) (22 years ago, 2-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) I know about shouting 'Fire!' in a crowded Theatre arguement--don't get bogged down in semantics. (...) And you're getting bogged down in semantics and slippery slopes--if you're afraid that your kid's going to get beat up 'cause he or she's (...) (22 years ago, 2-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) I know, Dave! I was referring to the idea that the opinion of our razor-thin-plurality President is somehow sacrosanct and allows him to create a religion test for those who sit on the bench. LFB (22 years ago, 2-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) I guess then that this is up to the Supreme Court to decide? Wait, if the Pledge is 'voluntary' then it's Free Speech--those that don't want to say it don't have to, which then legitimizes my other arguement--if the kid gets picked on, it has (...) (22 years ago, 2-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) Even here on (...) I'm going to forgive your foray off-topic in this NG just this once if you tell us and tell us NOW who knows what:-) (...) I would say that your characterization is slightly off-- should be whether the inclusion of "under (...) (22 years ago, 2-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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