Subject:
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Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 2 Jul 2002 21:26:59 GMT
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Viewed:
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6244 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys writes:
>
> > Saying that Dubya cannot say 'God' either as himself or as his position
> > because it goes contrary to the separation of C & S is ludicrous at best.
> > Dubya has the freedom to say as he pleases--that's what the little blurb
> > from the WW was a bout, as well as your own Freedom of Speech.
>
> Freedom of Speech can be restricted by requirements of circumstance and
> profession. If W announced that we were about to obliterate Canada with
> nuclear bombardment and said that we've just launched the missiles, would
> you say "oh, that's just a guy exercising his Free Speech" or would you
> expect the United States to issue some sort of explanation. In my job I'm
> not free to discuss certain matters with non-employees; that's not
> un-Constitutional; that's protection of privileged material. Even here on
> LUGNET some people are in possession of sensitive LEGO-related information
> that they're not free to divulge.
I know about shouting 'Fire!' in a crowded Theatre arguement--don't get
bogged down in semantics.
>
> > About the pledge--it's not the issue--the issue there is bullies. Was it
> > the Pledge who beat up the kids at recess? Was it the Pledge that threw the
> > first punch?
>
> You're caricaturing; the issue is that the State, in the form of The
> School, enforces policy. The School (ie, the State) is the bully. To reduce
> it to a playground brawl is either to attack a straw man or else a serious
> misunderstanding of the issue.
And you're getting bogged down in semantics and slippery slopes--if you're
afraid that your kid's going to get beat up 'cause he or she's differnt in
any way, it's not the differences that's the problem, it's the beating up bit.
>
> > I wore a cub scout uniform to school every Tuesday, for my cub meeting was
> > after school down at the park. Did wearing the uniform cause some grief in
> > class and/or on the playground? Sure, but in the grande scheme of things...
> > whatever...
>
> But that's no good in real life. I know a guy who lost both legs in an
> industrial accident; does that mean that no one who still has legs has a
> right to complain when they hurt? If your logic is correct, all we need to
> do is find the person who's suffered the most, and the rest of us can all
> shut up.
Slippery slope. There are things that build character, and there are
legitimate greivances--to distinguish the two is the rub. This debate would
never have arisen in the '70's 'cause then, when I was in school, we took
care of our own and didn't look to gov't for protection against things that
we didn't like. I just realized that we scream and kick and fight against
Orwell's idea in 1984 concerning Big Brother, but we are running head-long
right into that very situation when we want gov't to protect us from any and
all hurt and harm caused just by living. Thanks but no thanks.
> > This reminds me of a Calvin & Hobbes cartoon, when Calvin put
> > on his dad's glasses, walked into the living room and said 'Calvin, go do
> > something you hate--it builds character' in his best dad's voice. I always
> > loved that strip.
>
> Cartoons and primetime melodramas forming your understanding of US
> national policy; what goes on above the border?!? 8^)
As opposed to the alternative--the American Press, living in fear that if
they write anything contrary to Bush's policy that they will lose their
credibility and/or jobs? A Pro-American bias in all the text books and/or
sources of info that touts the sacredness of pieces of paper? An arrogant
presumptive country that believes in its manifest destiny handed down by God
but wait--you can't say that 'cause it's got the word 'God' in it...?
Yeah, cartoons and melodramas are at least a step up.
Dave
-who truly still loves his American neighbours, and we couldn't ever have a
show even remotely like the West Wing 'cause a) who could understand the
Prime Minister, and b) we already have Question Period.
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Question Time is fine television.
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| (...) I mean, I don't know about the Canadian iteration, but I absolutely LOVE PM's Question Time in the UK. They show it at off times on CSPAN and sometimes it's just a hoot. Were it that all government activity were so entertaining. best LFB (24 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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