Subject:
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Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 2 Jul 2002 21:49:46 GMT
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Viewed:
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3556 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys writes:
> Wow.
>
> Strong emotions from a strong people.
What else would you expect? :-)
>
> That said... once again into the fray...
>
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys writes:
> > > Back into the fray (from a much needed absence 'cause I had to re-evaluate
> > > the way I come across in my posts...)
> > >
> > > /America rant on
> > >
> > > The next time anyone tells me the USofA is the 'free-est' nation on the
> > > planet, I'm going to point to this thread (and other places) and say,
> > > 'They're slaves to a piece of paper written 200+ years ago.'
> >
> > lol, and it is *because* of this self-imposed slavery that we *remain* the
> > "free-est" and greatest nation on the planet.
>
>
> Greatest? History, my friend, will see about that.
Well, I meant *in* history, not for all time. The US is the greatest nation to
have ever existed, even though we've only been around for 200odd years. Heck,
Americans have driven SUVs on the moon-- we've landed stuff on Mars! And yet,
we could have rightfully claimed those places our own, but we didn't! We are
simply unlike any other nation to have ever been. But if you have a nomination
for a greater one, I'm all ears.
>
> > > The Constitution and the DoI are not Holy Writs, not divine, nor are they
> > > anything other than a guideline written by people for the people of the time
> > > for which they were written. Nothing more, nothing less.
> >
> > Wrong. They are the cornerstone of our greatness. Without them we would be
> > nothing. They *are* sacred, or at least the ideas contained within them are.
>
>
> No, they are not sacred. It's a piece of paper.
Come on, Dave. I'm talking about the ideas contained therein-- we are great
because we have adhered to those ideas-- freedom and liberty.
> Nor was the tomato sacred. People want something wo worship--that much is
> apparent by this very conversation--saying that a piece of paper with words
> on it is sacred is putting that paper above the people that it was
> supposedly for. Atrocities happen when objects get elevated to sacred.
> It's a dog, it's a cow, it's a piece of paper.
It's a piece of paper that glorifies freedom and liberty for all. Tell me how
one can go astray if everyone "worshipped" at the shrine of these ideas?
>
> Saying that you would be nothing without that piece of paper is bordering on
> the reverant.
"irreverant"?
If that paper disappeared right now, what would happen?
> Would you *poof* disappear? Would your homeland cease to be the United
> States of America, and revert back into the French Territory of Louisana,
> Mexico and whatever else there was before 1776? Somehow I doubt it. Just
> as I would not stop being a Christian because you took away my Bible, you
> would not cease to be American if the Constitution were to disappear. You
> have laws, you have judges, you have appeals, you have government. The
> Constitution is a guideline and a pretty good one at that, as to how to do
> things, but it should never be put above the individual.
The Constitution *is* our government, and without the government, there is
nothing to protect the rights of the people, and without that protection, you
have anarchy, which is a far cry from the US today. Damn right this country
would cease to exist as we know it.
The idea that 'all
> men are created equal' was not invented by the FF, and if it were written
> today, it would say 'all persons are created equal' See, a mistake.
LOL Thank God the FFs weren't silly with PC fever. That's no mistake in my
book. For the record, the use of "men" means "mankind"... Oops;-)
> This post gets my vote for being the typical Arrogant American writing.
>
> -Our very greatness as a nation
> -They are the cornerstone of our greatness
> -that we *remain* the "free-est" and greatest nation on the planet
>
> If I were prone to doing a world tour, backpacking like and just on a
> walkabout--which flag would I rather have sewn on my backpak, Canada or
> America? Which flag would open more doors for me, and which would slam more
> doors in my face?
Totally irrelevant. Dave, I really couldn't care less what other countries
think of us. If they hate us, that's their problem (unless they hate us so
much that they start killing us, in which case I care a lot)
>
> Don't go telling me, and the rest of the world that America is the greatest
> country inthe world--remove the plank out of your eye before you try to tell
> me that.
Again I challenge you to name a nation greater than the US in *any* category
(but please, don't mention sports). I'm not saying we are perfect-- far, far
from it. We have plenty of issues. All I am saying is that, given the lot of
the world's countries today, there is simply no comparison. I say this not as
a braggart; it just happens to be a fact.
But show me I'm wrong. I know this is coming off as a lot of flag-waving and
Patriotic rhetoric, but try to see beyond that and really take a look at what
this country has done in 200ish short years. It's downright remarkable. And
then try and *explain* the US's success. And try not to conclude with "dumb
luck":-)
-John
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