Subject:
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Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 2 Jul 2002 20:58:20 GMT
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Viewed:
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3530 times
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Wow.
Strong emotions from a strong people.
That said... once again into the fray...
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys writes:
> > Back into the fray (from a much needed absence 'cause I had to re-evaluate
> > the way I come across in my posts...)
> >
> > /America rant on
> >
> > The next time anyone tells me the USofA is the 'free-est' nation on the
> > planet, I'm going to point to this thread (and other places) and say,
> > 'They're slaves to a piece of paper written 200+ years ago.'
>
> lol, and it is *because* of this self-imposed slavery that we *remain* the
> "free-est" and greatest nation on the planet.
Greatest? History, my friend, will see about that. Greeks thought...
Romans thought... whatever. Arrogance does not make one great. The ability
to take over anything (cause you do have the most advanced army in the
world) does not make one great, worshipping a piece of paper does not make
one great. I don't really know what makes someone great, and I'm sure the
definition varies from person to person--the school yard bully probably
thinks he's the greatest thing on the playground, but really, is he great?
Hate to talk about preachers right now 'cause of the whole discussion thus
far, but there are those preachers that say 'lookit me, look how much God is
in me--everything I do, I mean, I'm just so awesomely doing God stuff'.
Then there's the humble preacher who truly believes in the 'putting others
first' and attending the flocks. To me--no contest.
Anyway, history will tell...
> > The Constitution and the DoI are not Holy Writs, not divine, nor are they
> > anything other than a guideline written by people for the people of the time
> > for which they were written. Nothing more, nothing less.
>
> Wrong. They are the cornerstone of our greatness. Without them we would be
> nothing. They *are* sacred, or at least the ideas contained within them are.
No, they are not sacred. It's a piece of paper. Obviously some don't
appreciate things quoted from WW but it opens the door to discussion--The
president was relating this story about her daughter. His daughter read
that somewhere in the world a person sliced open a tomato and that the
interior of the tomato formed a most perfect rosary. Some commented that
the person must've been pretty special--The president's daughter said that
it was the tomato that was special, not the person.
Nor was the tomato sacred. People want something wo worship--that much is
apparent by this very conversation--saying that a piece of paper with words
on it is sacred is putting that paper above the people that it was
supposedly for. Atrocities happen when objects get elevated to sacred.
It's a dog, it's a cow, it's a piece of paper.
Saying that you would be nothing without that piece of paper is bordering on
the reverant. If that paper disappeared right now, what would happen?
Would you *poof* disappear? Would your homeland cease to be the United
States of America, and revert back into the French Territory of Louisana,
Mexico and whatever else there was before 1776? Somehow I doubt it. Just
as I would not stop being a Christian because you took away my Bible, you
would not cease to be American if the Constitution were to disappear. You
have laws, you have judges, you have appeals, you have government. The
Constitution is a guideline and a pretty good one at that, as to how to do
things, but it should never be put above the individual. The idea that 'all
men are created equal' was not invented by the FF, and if it were written
today, it would say 'all persons are created equal' See, a mistake.
Anywho, this is getting convoluted...
> > /America rant off
> >
> > Both documents are a good read. Both are crafted by truly eloquent and
> > intelligent people, who tried to cover the bases. But the people of the
> > time could not predict what was going to happen a week later, yet alone 200+
> > years.
>
> But yet at the same time they tried to craft it in such a way as to make it
> timeless. And, for the most part, it was worked very well. Our very greatness
> as a nation this day is a testament to that fact.
>
> Either way, you get my vote for "understatement of the year":-)
This post gets my vote for being the typical Arrogant American writing.
-Our very greatness as a nation
-They are the cornerstone of our greatness
-that we *remain* the "free-est" and greatest nation on the planet
If I were prone to doing a world tour, backpacking like and just on a
walkabout--which flag would I rather have sewn on my backpak, Canada or
America? Which flag would open more doors for me, and which would slam more
doors in my face?
Don't go telling me, and the rest of the world that America is the greatest
country inthe world--remove the plank out of your eye before you try to tell
me that. Canada isn't, either, btw, but nowhere do we even presuppose that
we are. It is, though, akin to the two preahers I mentioned earlier.
> lol, I'd even go so far as to say that we wouldn't even be enjoying this little
> discussion in cyberspace had not for those documents (Al Gore notwithstanding)
>
> -John
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