Subject:
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Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 4 Jul 2002 08:06:10 GMT
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Viewed:
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3769 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys writes:
>
> > There is nothing with saying the USofA is great. My original issue was with
> > saying it is the "Greatest" nation. The US is great, for numerous reasons
> > which I may expound on, but it is arrogance and conceit to say it is the
> > Greatest nation.
>
> Fine. Just show me a better one.
>
> > Yes there is opportunity. Yes people are allowed to do as they please for
> > freedom and justice for all. These are good things, they make the US great.
> > But I state again, is not making the Greatest Nation on the planet.
>
> And I say again-- pick a greater one.
In many respects the USA is "Great". But so was Goliath. Economically and
Militarly the USA is "great". But, increasingly, it has failed to be morally
"Great".
>
> > You are great because your people make it so. The Constitution was a good
> > starting point, but people a)must come first and b) evolve. To be slaves to
> > a piece of paper will make a country stagnant and unchanging.
>
> How can one say that we are great because of our people, and OTOH we are a
> nation of immigrants (people from *other* countries). Our people are
> indistinguishable from the people of other countries. What is different is
> that here, those people are *free*! And the Constitution is what safeguards
> those freedoms. If we stagnate and remain unchanged in our defense of
> liberty-- dude, that is a *good* thing!
You are free to conform to the norm.
I would have more respect for your scrap of paper if it had given rights to
those who were not white males… but it took a long time to do that. I would
have more respect for you scrap of paper if it gave rights to those held
without charge by your country. I would have more respect for your scrap of
paper if it had protected political freedoms during the cold war.
Despite my tongue-in-cheek remarks above, I do have a lot of resect for your
constitution. However, it is far from ideal. For example, it has been
complicit in allowing the USA to become the “greatest democracy money can
buy”. The constitution should serve and protect (the collective) you, but
at times you are a slave to it. It is used to defend immoral acts, and at
times its interpretation appears to fly in the face of USA culture and
common sense.
>
> >
> > The thousands who sacrificed before the US decided that it would be in their
> > best interests to join the war. I think its historically accurate to say
> > that most fights the US has bee in has been for internal reasons. Britain
> > started WWII because of what Germany did to someone else.
>
> Pearl Harbor was hardly "internal". And since when is it now known that
> *Britain* started WWII???
>
> > So it all depends on how you define 'greatest'.
>
> I define "greatest" by how a country treats its citizens. The people of the US
> of A are the freest people in the world, and *that* is what makes us the
> greatest.
You may feel you are the "freest people in the world", but do black or
Hispanic Americans feel the same? Does their collective lack of economic
power deny them equal access to the political system?
> The fact that we are the greatest economic, military, and cultural
> presence on earth is only a testament to that fact, not reasons for it.
Many would argue that the USA has no culture other than consumerism.
>
> > What's the no. 1 cause of death for black males aged between 18 and 35 in
> > the United States? Homicide.
>
> What's the point here?
> >
> > Yeah, don't tell me the US is the greatest nation on the planet.
>
> I'll not only tell you, I'll tell you again. I am proud to be an American, and
> on the eve of the anniversary of our independence, I'll tell you this. I am
> not saying that America doesn't have problems-- of course we do. We are in the
> middle of a huge cultural struggle right now.
> We have just as many problems as
> anyone else.
So life is not all that “great” after all?
> But we face far graver dangers from the fact that we are a free
> society than from any external source.
>
> We are great because we are free, and we are the greatest because we are the
> freest.
>
> God bless America!
Which God? My one blesses us all. ;)
Scott A
>
> -John
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