Subject:
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Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 4 Jul 2002 11:06:35 GMT
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Viewed:
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3827 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys writes:
>
> In many respects the USA is "Great". But so was Goliath. Economically and
> Militarly the USA is "great". But, increasingly, it has failed to be morally
> "Great".
Yes, you are correct. I think we are victims of our own success-- freedom has
a price which one must be willing to pay; freedom without responsibility is
anarchy and not freedom at all.
> I would have more respect for your scrap of paper if it had given rights to
> those who were not white males? but it took a long time to do that. I would
> have more respect for you scrap of paper if it gave rights to those held
> without charge by your country. I would have more respect for your scrap of
> paper if it had protected political freedoms during the cold war.
>
> Despite my tongue-in-cheek remarks above, I do have a lot of resect for your
> constitution. However, it is far from ideal. For example, it has been
> complicit in allowing the USA to become the ?greatest democracy money can
> buy?. The constitution should serve and protect (the collective) you, but
> at times you are a slave to it. It is used to defend immoral acts, and at
> times its interpretation appears to fly in the face of USA culture and
> common sense.
Can you say "pledge ruling"? I'm not sure that there *can* be an ideal
document-- stuff will always happen that one could never have predicted.
> You may feel you are the "freest people in the world", but do black or
> Hispanic Americans feel the same? Does their collective lack of economic
> power deny them equal access to the political system?
To speak in those terms is IMO racist. Sure, there will always be those who
are disinfranchised, but it will always cut along the poverty line rather than
the racial one. The fate of the poor has always been thus. At least in this
country, the bar for the poor is higher than in any other country.
>
> > The fact that we are the greatest economic, military, and cultural
> > presence on earth is only a testament to that fact, not reasons for it.
>
> Many would argue that the USA has no culture other than consumerism.
Perhaps. But remember, we've only *been* a culture for 200ish years....
However short that is, we do have quite a rich history already.
I find it interesting that when immigrants come here, they *expect* to be able
to preserve their *former* cultural selves, even their language. This is quite
a different attitude than, say, 100 years ago. It tends to divide us rather
than bring us together. I am not a fan of "diversity" for its own sake--
ironically, find it smacks of racism.
> > We have just as many problems as
> > anyone else.
>
> So life is not all that ?great? after all?
Yes and no. Our greatest danger comes in times of prosperity. When things get
really tough, that is when Americans band together best.
The parallel to the ancient Hebrews is worth noting. The Hebrew prophets
railed against Israelite injustice during prosperous times, and offered comfort
and solice in times of exile.
We have had many prosperous years; our moral decay is evidence of that.
> > God bless America!
>
> Which God? My one blesses us all. ;)
lol good point, actually. The expression doesn't really specify-- one could
argue that it even has become secularized as a sentiment of good will. I
really think the atheists are in for some major setbacks courtesy of the US SC
in the near future, beginning with the recent voucher ruling. Their positions
don't have a prayer;-D
-John
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