Subject:
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Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 4 Jul 2002 11:42:13 GMT
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Viewed:
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4219 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> > > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys writes:
> >
> > In many respects the USA is "Great". But so was Goliath. Economically and
> > Militarly the USA is "great". But, increasingly, it has failed to be morally
> > "Great".
>
> Yes, you are correct. I think we are victims of our own success-- freedom has
> a price which one must be willing to pay; freedom without responsibility is
> anarchy and not freedom at all.
>
> > I would have more respect for your scrap of paper if it had given rights to
> > those who were not white males? but it took a long time to do that. I would
> > have more respect for you scrap of paper if it gave rights to those held
> > without charge by your country. I would have more respect for your scrap of
> > paper if it had protected political freedoms during the cold war.
> >
> > Despite my tongue-in-cheek remarks above, I do have a lot of resect for your
> > constitution. However, it is far from ideal. For example, it has been
> > complicit in allowing the USA to become the ?greatest democracy money can
> > buy?. The constitution should serve and protect (the collective) you, but
> > at times you are a slave to it. It is used to defend immoral acts, and at
> > times its interpretation appears to fly in the face of USA culture and
> > common sense.
>
> Can you say "pledge ruling"? I'm not sure that there *can* be an ideal
> document-- stuff will always happen that one could never have predicted.
Indeed, but it is important to iron out any imperfections. You constitution
allows political power to be bought and sold. Millionaires can buy
elections. Third parties can run negative campaigns against candidates (eg
NRA). Your embassies are stocked with political donors. I won’t even mention
the plumb book or pork barrelling.
>
> > You may feel you are the "freest people in the world", but do black or
> > Hispanic Americans feel the same? Does their collective lack of economic
> > power deny them equal access to the political system?
>
> To speak in those terms is IMO racist.
In what respect?
> Sure, there will always be those who
> are disinfranchised, but it will always cut along the poverty line rather than
> the racial one.
You are ignoring reality.
> The fate of the poor has always been thus. At least in this
> country, the bar for the poor is higher than in any other country.
Really? How many of your countrymen have no healthcare cover? How many millions?
> >
> > > The fact that we are the greatest economic, military, and cultural
> > > presence on earth is only a testament to that fact, not reasons for it.
> >
> > Many would argue that the USA has no culture other than consumerism.
>
> Perhaps. But remember, we've only *been* a culture for 200ish years....
So now you are saying you are not great culturally?
> However short that is, we do have quite a rich history already.
>
> I find it interesting that when immigrants come here, they *expect* to be able
> to preserve their *former* cultural selves, even their language. This is quite
> a different attitude than, say, 100 years ago. It tends to divide us rather
> than bring us together. I am not a fan of "diversity" for its own sake--
> ironically, find it smacks of racism.
Can forcing your culture on them not also be considered racism?
>
> > > We have just as many problems as
> > > anyone else.
> >
> > So life is not all that ?great? after all?
>
> Yes and no. Our greatest danger comes in times of prosperity. When things get
> really tough, that is when Americans band together best.
I think the past few months of “danger” has shown the USA at its worst. The
“banding together” has compromised both your rights and the rights of those
who are not part of your happy club. Understand that much John.
Scott A
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