Subject:
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Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:38:54 GMT
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Viewed:
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4006 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> > I define "greatest" by how a country treats its citizens. The people of the US
> > of A are the freest people in the world, and *that* is what makes us the
> > greatest. The fact that we are the greatest economic, military, and cultural
> > presence on earth is only a testament to that fact, not reasons for it.
>
> The usual madness, John?
The usual leftist bilge, Richard?
>
> We are amongst the most incarcerated people of any nation, and this is by
> percentage, not just numbers. Why do you suppose that is?
Because freedom and responsibility go hand in hand. Many people don't
understand that.
>
> One reason, and there are many others, is that we'd rather treat our drug
> addicts through incarceration rather than giving them the medical and
> psychological care they need.
Show me in our Constitution where:
1. that is anywhere near the government's responsibility, and
2. why I should be *forced* to pay for this
Another reason would be that we incarcerate
> people for a number of pretended crimes that have nothing to do with the
> traditional common law crimes of rape, murder, and theft -- and their
> variants. Should prostitution and gambling really be crimes in some areas?
If those areas want it that way, yes. But you are wrong about the association
of "pretended crimes" (let's say drug use) and "traditional" crimes-- they most
often go hand in hand.
>
> O the list of arguments goes on...but why bother?
You know, in a perfect world, we wouldn't need a lot of government; we wouldn't
even need our Constitution. Since this world *isn't* perfect, to hack on our
system the way you are is just liberal and worthless rhetoric.
You'll just come back at
> me with 200 iterations of "Show me a better country?"
Because you and I both know that, for all of our imperfections, we *still* have
the best form of government around!
If you are actually
> capable of reason, I would merely point out that several European nations
> have very high standards of living that either compete with our own in the
> states or actually manage to best our standard of living here.
I am capable of reason, and I challenge you to *specifically* name names. And
define "standards" of living (under which criteria) you are using for
comparison.
And while
> they are at it, they also manage to deal with the drug issue at least a
> little bit more effectively in my view.
Yeah. Well, you are entitled to your opinion, whatever "a little bit more
effectively" means.
>
> The first step in improving everything about our country is to not be smug
> about who or what we are today.
If your implication is that I am thus, you haven't been paying attention.
There is A LOT of room for improvement as I
> see it.
I think I said the very same thing...
The U.S. is still a great idea on paper, less great by far in
> actual practice.
So is your point that we aren't perfect? What *is* your point?
I have a couple of questions for you-- do you, in general, have a problem with
patriotism? Do you ever feel a little uncomfortable calling America "great"
(not the greatest, just "great")? Just wondering.
-John
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