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(...) I guess I just disagree with you there :) I think it's better to have a better contest, and perhaps lose a few entries of those who want to sell their models. The increased quality of the interface is worth it, imo. (21 years ago, 6-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) Precisely my point, and precisely why putting them on an uneven footing will diminsh (the number of) entries. Better to have a level playing field, one way or the other, and better to set that field to maximise the number of entries. (...) All (...) (21 years ago, 6-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) But entries that are displayed as picture only WILL, by definition, have a diminished effect. It's similar to the difference between seeing a picture of a model as opposed to holding it in your hand. Of course that the model taht allows me to (...) (21 years ago, 6-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) of course not. Prior to this thread being posted on lugnet. [snip] (...) Opinions voiced in a private discussion ARE irrelavent once the discussion goes public. If the owners of the opinions want to share them, they're welcome to do so (and (...) (21 years ago, 6-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) I hope not. It's certainly not my overt intent! I think sharing's great, if you want to share. I just don't want to see authors put in a position where they are forced to share either to participate at all, or in order to be on an equal (...) (21 years ago, 6-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) It would seem like you are defending here your right to sell your models *over* the rights of others to share theirs. Granted, this only applies to a very specific instance (MOTM contest), not the community as a whole. But I still can't agree (...) (21 years ago, 6-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) Well, more kudos to Orion for opening the discussion then, even if it got off-topic. I have not changed my views on the matter, but at the same I have certainly gained insight into the mindset of other community members. At the end of the day, (...) (21 years ago, 6-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, FTX)
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(...) But not allowing it discriminates against larger or more detailed entries. Take a look at the December models. There's no way to see all the details of two of the models without the LDR file. You're just leveling the field in your favor (...) (21 years ago, 6-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) I am not so keen on it, it sort of smacks of potential discrimination against entries that choose not to do so. If we are going for a level playing field let's get completely level. (21 years ago, 6-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) Well that wasn't just me. Steve and I had discussed it for some time and had wanted to move in that direction. The change actually got a bit of help from Michael Lachmann who asked, and Steve and I gave a thumbs up, then others followed suit. (...) (21 years ago, 6-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, FTX)
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--snip-- (...) Not completely true. Orion's original post was to get ideas/feedback on his proposed changes. In the end it will be up to him to decide how he sets up the MOTM rules. Why? Simple, this decision is not up to a committee! Case in point (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, FTX)
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(...) How do you feel about requiring the LDR file in order to generate standardized pics, but keeping the publishing of the LDR file itself optional? Would that also prevent you from submitting? (...) I don't buy that analogy. It's not your (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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"Larry Pieniazek" <lpieniazek@mercator.com> wrote in message news:Hr0Mxq.1qoL@lugnet.com... [ ... snipped ... ] (...) understanding (...) discussions (...) to be (...) necessary. I too think this is an unreasonable restriction. It has been a while (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) I was, and still am intending to do exactly this, enter Motm and sell instructions for the MOC. I hope to win MOTM and use the forum to generate publicity. I don't see any problem with this. My MOC is quite large and complicated and I've spent (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) Scenes, I guess, as you would think of them now, but some (all?) of them may have been submitted prior to the MoTM/SoTM split. But I've got one in mind for MoTM right now, and I choose MoTM because I think it would be poorly served to be in a (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) You're talking about a different medium. Not everyone has the 21 inch, high resolution monitor required to make complex or intricate models look good when rendered. The use of pictures meant to be displayed on a typical computor monitor tends (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) Hmmm, now that you mention it, I do recall something of yours up for a vote. Did you submit a model, or just scenes? Did you ever submit as a model something you were selling? And hey, do we have archives of the old entries? (...) I wouldn't (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) It seems as though my first point was missed entirely. The presentation is as crucial to the model as the model itself. The first example I would like to use comes from my profession- design competitions. Rules for submissions in almost all (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) Several, actually. (...) I think it is an issue, and worse, I think it highlights an underlying issue of larger import. In an ideal world the Steering Committee would either have given Orion authority to organize the contest as he sees fit, or (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) Nah, the work is easily automated. -Orion (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) I don't think it will fix much. There will still be nothing to prevent people from selling kits or high quality posters. Since this issue is only partially addressed by making the source public, I don't think changing the rules of the MOTM (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) I think you're signing yourself up for a lot of work but it's a terrifically nifty idea! (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) I would too, IF they weren't the original author. And making the dat public enables that sort of behaviour far too easily. Hence my aversion to it. On the other hand, if they were the author, I think it's perfectly fine. If your model is good (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) Nothing. That doesn't make it right though. And as part of the proposed change (which I do like a lot, btw!), we have a chance to fix this as well. (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) What's preventing people from doing this now (for both contests)? -Orion (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) Why? If they don't want to publish the DAT, they can still enter the Scene categrory, because that's all you get without the DAT file, one view of the model (AKA a scene). My personal favorite part of lugnet is clicking on the DAT links and (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) limit the submissions from those who are unwilling/unable to install the specified program on their machine. This is why I liked Larry's idea to submit the DAT code instead and to have the contest coordinator do the renders. This way, if the (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) So you wouldn't have a problem with someone saying (on their e-shop) "buy the instructions to build this winner of the official Ldraw.org MOTM contest winner"? I would. (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) If the model has commercial ties before or during the contest then I might (note the word might) have a problem with the submission. In my opinion, the reasoning behind an author's decision to keep the source private is irrelevent and not the (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) If you feel that POV rendering gives too many degrees of freedom, why not define MOTM as L3LAB, Ortographic, renderings. Then there's no discussion of landscape, sky, Anton Raves' parts, etc. etc. L3LAB rendering also shows the construction of (...) (21 years ago, 4-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) Let's please make this explicitly clear: It is then all right to use the contest as a means to advertise a commercial model or a commercial product based on the model? This is a glaring pitfall if sources are not requested. I thought it would (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) To which post? Your post? (...) All the rest of the thread before your post is irrelevant? I'm not sure that's what you meant to say, you may want to consider a rewording to clarify. (...) I disagree. While they may not have been the decision (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) I found this question somewhat surprising, frankly. (...) I'm hoping that it only appears to be the central issue because the rest of the proposal has met with general agreement and that if this issue can be resolved, it will be speedily (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) Agreed. -Tim (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) The loss is the chance for us to see the creative effort of another and possibly be inspired by it. The fact that this has become the central issue of my proposed changes flabbergasts me. It takes absolutly no effort on our part to honor an (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) I agree with Jacob. Also, the discussion prior to this post doesn't really matter - a decision wasn't made in that discussion, so what people who participated in it thought is really irrelevant. If someone chooses not to participate in the (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) OK, I'll accept that and agree that it's a goal of the contest. Going forward though, I think we're still suffering from not having formal organization in place, in an ideal world this proposal would have passed through the steering committee (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) I agree with Larry about this issue. I consider imposing a restiction like this to be both excessively exculsionary and extremely petty. -Orion (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) Well. We may have forgotten to write it down, but I remember it as one of the ideas, when we originally started MOTM (and I wrote the first two versions of the software for MOTM/SOTM). (...) It is kind of hard to arrive at consensus during (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) I looked here: (URL) and here: (URL) I didn't see that as an explicitly stated goal. I may have missed it somewhere else though. (...) I'm not sure I agree. Perhaps slightly less than if they are. I think there are lots of learning (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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