Subject:
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Re: Brainstorms
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.robotics
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Date:
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Sun, 11 Aug 2002 20:21:48 GMT
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Original-From:
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Steve Baker <sjbaker1@airmail.net[SayNoToSpam]>
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Reply-To:
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sjbaker1@airmail&saynotospam&.net
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Viewed:
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620 times
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Xanthra47 wrote:
> That said, I'd like for BrainStorms to be backward compatible with Technic,
> Mindstorms, and Spybotics. Most people aren't going to embrace new tech
> unless the new stuff can "leverage their legacy platforms." (Yes, I've been
> in meetings with IBM consultants all week)
So I imagine the need for a brainstorm brick that has a standard Lego wire
connection on the top and a little I2C chip inside that would interface with
existing motors and sensors. This would certainly be needed because nobody
wants to butcher their Mindstorms stuff - and we don't want to have to make
Lego compatible motors.
The ugly thing though is that a brick that could work with both sensors and
motors would be hard to do - so you probably need two of them - one for motors
and one for sensors.
As for compatibility the other way (ie making brainstorms stuff work with RCX),
I honestly wouldn't bother. The RCX is the thing we are trying to improve on
and any effort to interface back to it is going to be messy.
> So how do we use I2C and still interoperate with Mindstorms, etc. ? We need
> a IAB (interface adapter brick) that converts the IR communications to I2C
> signals.
I think that's a standard I2C part. I2C is used in things like TV sets so IR
comms are a frequently needed part.
Whether it's going to be easy to implement iRDA - I don't know - I'd hope so.
> I envision having several types of IABs (Interface Adapter Bricks) :
> 1. An IR to I2C IAB
Yes.
> 2. A VLL to I2C IAB
Maybe.
> 3. A motor IAB
For sure.
> 3. A passive Sensor IAB
> 4. An active Sensor IAB
Maybe those can be the same thing?
But for *new* sensors that we might come up with,
I'd expect the I2C to be built right into the sensor.
> 5. A serial EEPROM IAB
Yes.
> 6. A USB to I2C IAB
Dunno how hard that is - but if we do it then we can use
it to connect the IR brick to a PC...so we only need one
IR brick type.
> 7. An RC servo IAB
Yes.
> 8. A pneumatic valve IAB
Dunno - isn't it easier to use an RC servo for this?
I'd add:
9. A microprocessor.
10. A RAM expansion.
11. A battery pack with sensing logic for short cicuits, overloads, overheating,
etc. This should also have temperature and voltage sensors readable via I2C
(that's a single I2C chip!)
12. Depending on how the power is transmitted - if it's in the same cable
bundle as the I2C - then there needs to be an I2C-to-I2C connector that
DOESN'T transmit power across it. You need this to safely add multiple
battery packs.
13. Some way to make noises - there are sound chips for I2C - but we'd also need
a teeny-tiny speaker or something.
> John B. and others mentioned the need to identify nodes on a distributed
> network and I've got an idea about how to do that...
Isn't that already a part of the I2C specification?
> : We design every I2C
> capable module or IAB with a connector that allows one to attach a NIB (Node
> ID Brick) to it. The NIB could have an eeprom in it to store it's NID (Node
> ID) or even have a bunch of dip switches on it so one could change it's NID
> as needed. Either way, changing the NID of an I2C node would be as simple
> as swapping NIBs.
> The guys with the 3-axis CNC did a nice job of engraving text for the name
> tags at Brickfest, and I think that'd be a professional way to mark NIBs for
> quick visual identification. IE simply engrave the NID on the side of the
> NIB.
But that makes all of these dinky little 2x4 stud devices *MUCH* larger and more
complex. Do we really need this?
I'd like most 'bricks' to be single I2C devices with a simple connector for power
and I2C - plus whatever is their function.
> For interconnections between modules, I'd suggest we stay with the 9V plates
> and leads that LEGO(R) makes now for most things. I know they're not the
> cheapest, but they're easy to use and easy to mark using different color
> tiles. People have already found creative ways of making homebrew
> conenctors that are compatible with them so price might no be an issue
> anyway. I think we can send I2C signals through them with no problems and
> we're already accustomed to using them for either power or data. Custom
> rotary connectors with slip rings would be a godsend, though ! I'm working
> on an adapter to convert LEGO(R) wires to RC battery pack connectors.
I'm not sure that gives us the connection density we need. We need:
Power
Ground
I2C SDA
I2C SCL
...but I2C is a bus, so you need:
SDA ------+----------------+---------------+----------------
SCL ------|--+-------------|--+------------|--+-------------
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
BRICK 1 BRICK 2 BRICK 3
Now - do we have cables that T off connections for each brick:
SDA ------+---------
SCL ------|--+------
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X X
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BRICK 1
(The 'X' is a connector pin.)
Or do we have bricks with two extra connections:
SDA ------+ +------
SCL ------|--+ | +---
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X X X X
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+-----+ |
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| +-----+
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BRICK 1
....so that there is an "In" and an "Out" connection and the cables
are daisy-chained and are small and modular.
> The discussion so far has centered on electronics and communications
> methods, but I think BrainStorms should extend LEGO(R) in the mechanical
> sense as well.
I think it would be wise to make that a separate discussion.
The electronics update does not rely on the mechanical change - and vice/versa.
You stand a better chance of getting one to happen if you don't try to fight
both battles at the same time.
----------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------------
Mail : <sjbaker1@airmail.net> WorkMail: <sjbaker@link.com>
URLs : http://www.sjbaker.org
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Brainstorms
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| Steve, Thanks for the quick feed back : ) Please take a look below ... & LMKWYT. -JSM Steve Baker <lego-robotics@crynwr.com> wrote in message news:3D56C75C.403000...ail.net... (...) I was thinking that it could be used to hook up to joysticks, (...) (22 years ago, 11-Aug-02, to lugnet.robotics)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Brainstorms
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| OK, I've been watching this thread for a few days (I am LUCNY's "Expert Lurker" after all !) and refining some ideas that I've had for a while in hopes that I can contibute to this dicussion in a useful way. Please keep in mind that I'm a Mechanical (...) (22 years ago, 11-Aug-02, to lugnet.robotics)
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