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(...) Bravo. If you're going to fight, fight to win. The Clinton administration has demonstrated that it does not understand the Powell doctrine and is misusing the military might of the US here, as it did in so many other places around the world (...) (26 years ago, 17-May-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Genocide and terrorism (Was: SW <-> Russia conspiracy)
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(...) Ah, but we are. As a nation with the economic, military and technological capability, it is our responsibility as a nation to do what we can to preserve peace. (1) Our actions in Kosovo can only lengthen the conflict and turn other nations (...) (26 years ago, 17-May-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Genocide and terrorism (Was: SW <-> Russia conspiracy)
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(...) Disagree. We are not our brother's keeper. Not as people, not as a nation. Where a preemptive strike against evil serves a clear national interest, maybe. (1) But not here, or in Somalia, or Haiti, or Grenada or even in Iraq... "Honest (...) (26 years ago, 17-May-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Genocide and terrorism (Was: SW <-> Russia conspiracy)
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(...) That's an interesting stance. All I've learned -- from my faith and otherwise -- indicates that we are our brother's keeper; e.g. we're responsible to do what we can for others. Is your "hands-off" approach a tenet of Libertarianism, or have (...) (26 years ago, 18-May-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Genocide and terrorism (Was: SW <-> Russia conspiracy)
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(...) Libertarianism doesn't speak to it directly except to say that if you feel you're your brother's keeper, that is fine, keep on keeping, but that does not mean that everyone has to contribute to support your sense of obligation. Hence, my taxes (...) (26 years ago, 18-May-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Genocide and terrorism (Was: SW <-> Russia conspiracy)
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(...) I don't agree. (Well, it just fits withing my B.K. philosophy.) I've lived overseas most of my life (1). In countries which are allies or even just friendly to the US, I appreciate (a minimal part of) the presence that the US keeps, especially (...) (26 years ago, 18-May-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Genocide and terrorism (Was: SW <-> Russia conspiracy)
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Sproaticus wrote in message <3740B628.A7E4BADA@g...es.com>... (...) technological (...) Larry can do a better job than I of explaining this stance. All you have learned from faith and otherwise *does* very likely indicate that you are your brother's (...) (26 years ago, 18-May-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Genocide and terrorism (Was: SW <-> Russia conspiracy)
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(...) Does this include how you relate to your literal brother or sister (assuming you're not an only child)? How about parents, spouse, children, cousins, cow-orkers, strangers on the street, mass murderers, presidential candidates, parents-in-law, (...) (26 years ago, 18-May-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Genocide and terrorism (Was: SW <-> Russia conspiracy)
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(...) I think arming the KLA is a bad idea - they started this chapter of the war afterall and so Serbia brutually fought back. I was watching a program of the history of the conflict and Milosevic - the hard man of Europe. It was the Kosovo (...) (26 years ago, 18-May-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Genocide and terrorism (Was: SW <-> Russia conspiracy)
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(...) I agree. How is that modified by your having committed to do so? (...) What if you're on US business? If your answer is still to let them rot, then I disagree. I also think that there are times when it's simply in the best interest of the (...) (26 years ago, 18-May-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Genocide and terrorism (Was: SW <-> Russia conspiracy)
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Sproaticus wrote in message <3741DAFA.C11A9695@g...es.com>... (...) else. (...) (assuming (...) Yes, for me it includes any of the above. My family is made up of productive people, so fortunately I have not been in the position where I had to take (...) (26 years ago, 19-May-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Genocide and terrorism (Was: SW <-> Russia conspiracy)
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(...) Sorry, could you restate the question, not following you here. (...) Do you mean US government business? Or just business of a US firm? If the former and it was diplomatic, sure. We have to enforce the rule of law between nations, diplomatic (...) (26 years ago, 19-May-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Genocide and terrorism (Was: SW <-> Russia conspiracy)
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(...) Right on. I have a brother in law who has exhibited enough cluelessness and consequence avoidance that he's on the verge of being written off. (...) Right on. Key difference here. If you don't get it, re-read. Rights are about behaviours. Even (...) (26 years ago, 19-May-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Genocide and terrorism (Was: SW <-> Russia conspiracy)
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(...) I don't believe it is our responsibility to do so. It may be, however, in our best interest to do so. Especially economic interest. Maybe not in this case specifically, but, in general, I would think that a mostly peaceful world is a world (...) (26 years ago, 19-May-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Genocide and terrorism (Was: SW <-> Russia conspiracy)
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(...) I think it is your responsibility to preserve peace in your own country FIRST! And ofcourse in other countries, but that goes for all nations on this lumb of dirt, floating in space (carried on the back of four elephants, who are standing on a (...) (26 years ago, 19-May-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Genocide and terrorism (Was: SW <-> Russia conspiracy)
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(...) Right, sorry. If you committ to be a keeper in some form, and then the assumed ward reveals moral shortcomings, what's is your behavioral response? (...) I do mean US government business. What if it is as a soldier? -- Sincerely, Christopher (...) (26 years ago, 19-May-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Genocide and terrorism (Was: SW <-> Russia conspiracy)
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(...) What if your child got in over his head gambling and owed a wad to the mob. You could pay his debt and keep him alive, but you didn't really believe that he'd learn. What if it could incurr significant hardship for you? What if it would be (...) (26 years ago, 19-May-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Genocide and terrorism (Was: SW <-> Russia conspiracy)
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(...) Ah, semantics. I get your meaning now, thanks. I still feel that the government *owes* us something -- wouldn't that entitle us to what we are owed? For example, I feel that the government owes us protection from invasion, protection from (...) (26 years ago, 19-May-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Genocide and terrorism (Was: SW <-> Russia conspiracy)
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(...) In a sense, yes, in a sense, no. While I am certainly more inclined to sacrifice to help members of my family, I am not their keeper. If my little brother were to fall on hard times and need a place to stay I'd let him stay with me for a (...) (26 years ago, 19-May-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Genocide and terrorism (Was: SW <-> Russia conspiracy)
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(...) Try to fix, then disengage if the (implied) contract becomes null and void. I help my relatives out of respect, admiration, and love. Why do you love someone? Philosophical question... but if I stop respecting my relatives I don't have that (...) (26 years ago, 19-May-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Genocide and terrorism (Was: SW <-> Russia conspiracy)
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(...) Gosh, my college marketing class didn't teach that jargon. (26 years ago, 19-May-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Genocide and terrorism (Was: SW <-> Russia conspiracy)
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Sproaticus wrote in message <3742D2BB.99927A6E@g...es.com>... (...) different (...) to (...) it (...) everyone! (...) If semantics means understanding the correct definition of the words we use, I guess. I am glad you figured out what I meant. (...) (...) (26 years ago, 20-May-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Genocide and terrorism (Was: SW <-> Russia conspiracy)
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Christopher L. Weeks wrote in message <3742C448.E0830844@c...ri.edu>... (...) cousins, (...) he (...) the (...) in (...) This is an extreme example, and I certainly hope it never happens. I would pay the debt because I would see it as my own. A (...) (26 years ago, 20-May-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Genocide and terrorism (Was: SW <-> Russia conspiracy)
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(...) He's a fellow traveler. A clarification, though... Libertarians support defense too, just not the bloated inefficent overpriced pork laden one we have now. Really. Libertarians are against taxes too. Taxation is slavery (1). We just recognise (...) (26 years ago, 20-May-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Genocide and terrorism (Was: SW <-> Russia conspiracy)
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(...) Right, that was the intent. (I hope not too.) (...) I meant the scenario to refer to an adult child, for sake of completeness say a 22 year old. I'm assuming from your reply that you were envisioning a child child. (26 years ago, 20-May-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Genocide and terrorism (Was: SW <-> Russia conspiracy)
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(...) Macho flash? Is that something like acknowledging it as a troll for argument? I really hate it when people disagree with this after it is explained to them. (...) This is why I'm not a member of the LP, I agree with all the goals except that I (...) (26 years ago, 20-May-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Genocide and terrorism (Was: SW <-> Russia conspiracy)
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(...) Libertarian Macho Flash is a saying we have in the party. It's an acknowledgement that we often make statements that we believe to be correct, that when made in a well supported chain of argument may be perfectly reasonable, but when made (...) (26 years ago, 20-May-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Genocide and terrorism (Was: SW <-> Russia conspiracy)
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(...) I've seen these stated along with calmly well supported chains of logic and the listeners still shake their heads. (...) If you believe it, I'd be interested to hear it. (...) Sure, new blood gets in, but has to work with the system. Who will (...) (26 years ago, 20-May-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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