 | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal? —Eric Joslin
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| | | (...) Does this mean that if you contracted a life-threatening illness, you would refuse any treatment that in large part resulted from animal testing? If not, why not? eric (24 years ago, 25-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal? —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | (...) Further, he must by definition be either a full vegetarian or a full cannibal, at least in principle. Dave! (24 years ago, 25-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal? —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | (...) other (...) I don't think so. By my above statements: I could be a full cannibal - but I'd also have to think that eating other animals was OK, just not as tasty. Or I could eat anything that I wanted to - people, veggies, beef, whatever - (...) (24 years ago, 26-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal? —Ed Jones
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| | | | | | | In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes: [snip] (...) Do you carry Credit Cards? :') (24 years ago, 26-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal? —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | (...) No longer, but that's another idealogical debate. :-) Chris (24 years ago, 26-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal? —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | (...) But surely you don't have a problem with handling ABS?! Dave! (24 years ago, 26-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal? —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | (...) Okay, but my point was that if you equate humans (of any group) with animals (also, presumably, of any group), then you would see no difference between eating people and eating "animals." Thus any meat consumption would be equivalent to eating (...) (24 years ago, 26-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal? —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | | (...) that's (...) Right. And that is, in fact, what I believe. But I assumed by "full cannibal" you meant that I would eat human but no other meat. That idea can't be logically derived from what I wrote. Were I to resort to eating any animals (...) (24 years ago, 26-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal? —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Just to pursue this to a morbid conclusion, you would therefore have no compunctions against sexual relations with any animal you found suitably attractive, and you would likewise be as willing to donate an organ to any animal (antigen issues (...) (24 years ago, 26-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal? —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | | | OK, hopefully the kiddies are kept away from l.o-t.d (...) would (...) I would apply the same standards that I do to humans...we must both be willing and interested. There is nothing wrong with inter-species copulation when both (all?) parteners are (...) (24 years ago, 26-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal? —James Simpson
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| | | | | | | | (...) I think that there is a real inherent difference between eating human flesh and eating other animal flesh, because there is a difference between being Fully Animal, and Merely Animal. To explain: The fact that humans possess all of the basic (...) (24 years ago, 26-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal? —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | I'm rearranging here and there, not to mislead, but to address things in the order that I chose... (...) If you expect to be flamed by me, guess again. First, you are expressing eloquently a very normal belief. It's wrong (at least for me), but I'm (...) (24 years ago, 26-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal? —James Simpson
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| | | | | | | | (...) I certainly didn't mean to suggest that I expected an imminent flame from you...I was merely acknowledging that some people following this thread will no doubt vehemently disagree with me. (...) I'm not sure that I follow your question...do (...) (24 years ago, 26-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal? —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | (...) being (...) I mean, why does the difference between being fully animal and being merely animal have anything to do with who should be able to victimize whom? (...) I think that murder "is an unfortuante part of the reality of this world" too. (...) (24 years ago, 27-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal? —James Simpson
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| | | | | | | | | (...) I'm still not sure that I follow you. My answer, if I understand the question correctly, is that I believe that it is a moral evil to kill animals gratuitously. (No doubt we'll find some common ground here, but disagree as to what exactly (...) (24 years ago, 27-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Vegetarianism etc. (was: Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | | | James, upon reading through your response to my last longish note on this it struck me that I was kind of beating the same topic, and that I sounded antagonistic to you as a religious person. While I disagree with you, and it makes it harder to (...) (24 years ago, 27-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Vegetarianism etc. (was: Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —James Simpson
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) me (...) of (...) Christopher: I haven't been offended by how you have expressed your views; in fact, I enjoy a friendly clash of arms. (...) I believe that gratuitous killing includes killing for sport, but I'm not prepared to say that (...) (24 years ago, 30-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Vegetarianism etc. (was: Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Why not do away witht the old testament then - as part of scripture, only - obviously it would retain historical value. (...) Uh...no. I misread and now feel foolish. :-) (Actually, yeah...yeah...that's the ticket, you can catch him at the (...) (24 years ago, 31-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Vegetarianism etc. (was: Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Why not do away witht the old testament then - as part of scripture, only - obviously it would retain historical value. (...) Uh...no. I misread and now feel foolish. :-) (Actually, yeah...yeah...that's the ticket, you can catch him at the (...) (24 years ago, 31-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Vegetarianism etc. (was: Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —James Simpson
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) It still has enormous theological value; the difference is that it is now read and understood in light of our fuller understanding of God as compiled in the New Testament. (...) Ok...I concede the point that it was inconsistent to include (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Vegetarianism etc. (was: Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) you (...) Nope. I would chose the human option, but not because I believe that it is capable of experiencing a "Better existence." I'm familiar with it, I know it's OK, I'd go with the known over the unknown in this case (unless I had reason (...) (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: The nature of being (was Aids, Vegetarianism etc.) —James Simpson
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Even if rights were a fiction, I'd agree with you that to avoid causing suffering is better. But, fundamentally, from a bedrock philosophical basis, we have no ultimate way to condemn evil if creatures do not objectively have a right to (...) (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Vegetarianism etc. (was: Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —James Simpson
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Correction to a poorly-worded statement; I meant to say: The afterlife will be a poorer place if it lacks animal life, but I believe that animals will be present. James (24 years ago, 30-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal? —Christopher Tracey
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| | | | | | | | | (...) I had a professor in college who has made arragements to be buried six inches deep in a forest in VA. I know it doesn't have the same effect as your wishes but it sounds like its legal. -chris (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal? —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | (...) Hmm.. What if you lightning subsequently sets fire to the woods where you're hypothetically dropped? Or if a landslide buries you? Burying and burning may be creepy, but cholera (for example) and the stench of rotting corpses trouble me, too. (...) (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal? —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | (...) Well, I guess I won't care...I'll be dead. I mean, nothing's perfect. (...) I'm pretty sure that the stench of rotting corpses doesn't trouble vultures and heyenas; how about if you just let them have me instead of trying to do the work (...) (24 years ago, 3-Jun-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal? —Christopher Tracey
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| | | | | | (...) Chris, I haven't been following this thread for the past week and I'm not caught up yet. I'm a little confused by the above paragraph. Are you vegan or lacto-ovo-vegetarian? It sounds like the latter to me, but I wanted to be sure. FYI, I've (...) (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal? —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | (...) for (...) years. (...) milk (...) have (...) yet. (...) The latter. I think the line "I eat eggs and dairy..." really gives it away :-) (...) Good for you! I've toyed with following a vegan diet, but it's not a step that I'm ready to take for (...) (24 years ago, 3-Jun-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | vegetarians (was Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —Christopher Tracey
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| | | | | | (...) That's what I thought, 'cept the sentance "I haven't eaten (except for trace amounts by mistake) the flesh, or derivatives, of an animal in six years." confused me a bit- IMO dairy is an animal derivative. Just checking. I noticed you're (...) (24 years ago, 5-Jun-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | Re: vegetarians (was Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | (...) Oh, I wonder how I should have written that. I meant to be saying flesh-derivatives (like gelatin), not animal-derivatives. I certainly agree that dairy is an animal derivative. (...) Yeah, I've been to DC a few times and there are just a ton (...) (24 years ago, 5-Jun-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | Re: vegetarians (was Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | | (...) Yes, but some would argue that these are still by-products of the meat industry. Scott A (...) figure (...) I'm (...) (24 years ago, 5-Jun-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: vegetarians (was Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | (...) Not me. If you don't believe me, come to Michigan where we raise both beef cows and dairy cows and you will soon discover that milk from a beef cow tastes marginal at best and meat from a dairy cow is absolutely awful, tough and stringy and (...) (24 years ago, 6-Jun-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: vegetarians (was Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —Tom Napolitano
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| | | | | | | | (...) cows (...) I'm a northern Illinois farm boy (okey, flame the hell out of me <g>) and all our beef cattle were steers. I couldn't imagine anyone eating old cow carcasses. likewise, you don't get much dairy product from steers. Tom (24 years ago, 6-Jun-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | Re: vegetarians (was Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —Christopher Tracey
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| | | | | | (...) Hmmm. I just call everything I can't eat 'cow' (j/k). Flesh-derivative works for me. (...) WAMALUG had a dinner meeting at Harmony Cafe in Georgetown. Even the picky eaters were happy with the meal. It's one of my favorite places to eat here. (...) (24 years ago, 5-Jun-00, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | Re: vegetarians (was Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | (...) Last time I was in DC (Thanksgiving for two weeks in '97) my friend and I were in an area near a college (we went on the metro) where there were little delis, tatoo and piercing places, used music shops, and a big (and interesting) gay and (...) (24 years ago, 6-Jun-00, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | Re: vegetarians (was Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —Christopher Tracey
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| | | | | | (...) Ah... the venerable 'Food for Thought' on 1738 Connecticut Avenue in Dupont Circle. Sadly, gentrification(1) has taken hold in that area, and most of the landlords(2) raised the rents several times what they were. Food for Thought couldn't (...) (24 years ago, 6-Jun-00, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | Re: vegetarians (was Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | (...) Yes! That's it. That place rocked! Actually that whole neighborhood was cool. Kind of like Clark and Belmont in Chicago...maybe all cities have a place like that. (...) :-( (...) That sounds likely, but I just don't remember. I'm pretty sure (...) (24 years ago, 6-Jun-00, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | Re: vegetarians (was Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —Christopher Tracey
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| | | | | | (...) deserts are where it's at for me currently. my latest success was fake chocolate cheesecake that fooled some non-vegetarians. I also have this crazy dream of opening a diner(stainless steel and all) that serves typically diner food but all of (...) (24 years ago, 6-Jun-00, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal? —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | (...) No. (...) For two reasons. First, because the harm has already been done. I also assert that we should use the gains of the Nazi doctors. You can (rightly) claim that by being a consumer of that good, I'm reinforcing that behavior as (...) (24 years ago, 26-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal? —Eric Joslin
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| | | | (...) Fair enough. (...) Very honest. Very nice. :D eric (24 years ago, 30-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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