Subject:
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Re: Vegetarianism etc. (was: Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 31 May 2000 16:01:51 GMT
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Viewed:
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1335 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, James Simpson writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> In theological terms, Christians believe that Christ has fulfilled all of the
> ancient laws for us; we are now under the new covenant;
Why not do away witht the old testament then - as part of scripture, only -
obviously it would retain historical value.
> Peter Singer, the Princeton philosopher, is also a folk musician???!!!
Uh...no. I misread and now feel foolish. :-) (Actually, yeah...yeah...that's
the ticket, you can catch him at the Princeton Coffee House on Nassau on
Thursday nights...yeah...)
> I believe that gratuitous killing includes killing for sport, but I'm not
> prepared to say that killing for meat because it tastes good is inherently
> gratuitious. Please see my comments on duty below. • ...
> I do not find a compelling moral imperative as a purely
> biological creature to refrain from that practice.
But you aren't a _purely_ biological creature, you're not merely animal. There
is a significant difference between humans and the other animals based on
"transcendental qualities." I got the idea that you would attribute these
differences to non-biological foundations.
> Regarding my existence as a free moral agent...
> (An example of a moral imperative which will always have
> a claim on my behavior is that I may never kill other
> people because I wish to claim their property as my own.)
Is that based on the value difference between people and other animals?
> [snip]
Thanks for the discussion on your duty it was interesting reading.
> > > But, I concede that because we possess moral faculties,
> > > we do have the responsibility to use them correctly. Predation
> > > is probably no longer necessary for our society.
> >
> > And what impact does this have on your actions.
>
> Well, I do not hunt. I find the argument against the factory farming industry
> to be the most compelling reason to refrain from eating most meats, and I am
> giving this issue serious thought.
I find it easier to be against factory farming than hunting, in part because I
think the removal of consumer from producer makes it easier for people to
ignore and devalue the life that was spent for their enjoyment. The whole
process of meat production that ends with yellow foam trays full of pink blobs
at the market gives me the willies.
> Actually, let me ask a question
> from a non-theistic perspective: Does a lamb have an inherent right to life if
> a lion exists that must prey upon it for survival? Either the lamb has an
> inherent right to exist, and as such it is our duty to exterminate the lion,
> or the lion also has a right to exist, and its claim to the lamb's life is
> just as pressing as the lamb's claim to its own life.
First, I think that 'rights' are a human construct. They don't exist. We get
together in groups, decide which rights we want to honor - so that we can
expect ours to be honored - and pat each other on the back for being so
exhaulted. Rights are a pleasant fiction and neither the lamb nor the lion
have any since they don't seem to comprehend them.
But rights isn't normally the stand from which I argue my beliefs. Ultimately,
it makes me feel better to act the way I do. And to show others how the world
would be better if y'all joined me. I would say that the other animals have as
much right to live unimpeded as we do, but that's not exactly supporting their
rights, it's more undermining the idea of rights.
> Even from a non-
> theistic worldview, do we not indeed assign inherent values to the lives of
> organisms as we weigh their competing claims within the ecosystem?
We as a group, or we as individuals? I assign value based on to what extent
they please me or are otherwise valuable. I think that's how most (all?)
people do it.
> > Have you heard of the Towers of Silence in Calcutta? I believe that it is
> the Jain religion that exumes their dead in these towers (although it may be
> the Parsee religion that does this - I'm not sure.)
I had not. They are of the Parsi religion, and I believe they're in Bombay. I
did a web search and found
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/india/1870-monier-parsees.html a quite
interesting read. I'd do that, but they wouldn't have me, and it's kind of a
bizzarre ritual anyway...not exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for the
reference.
Chris
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