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(...) i actually grew up in a loving environment that taught me that right and wrong are absolutes and nothing is relative. believing that has kept me out of trouble many times. And I didn't say you were (...) on the contrary--i'm not talking about (...) (20 years ago, 23-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Then you've been lucky not to have been exposed to reality, since you have been given such an inadequate set of tools for dealing with it. If you are in a position to save either one innocent person or a pair of innocent people from certain (...) (20 years ago, 23-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) That's exactly what I mean. Maybe it's not even your parents' fault. I'm willing to give that. Maybe they just didn't know better -- and now you don't. But it's still wrong. And raising kids, teaching them untruth as if it were truth, is (...) (20 years ago, 23-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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Hello! (...) So at least you are against Death Penalty. Nice to hear that! Bye Jojo (20 years ago, 23-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Sir, I see from your post that you have a child. Consider this: According to your reasoning, parents (you) must hate their (your) children because they are disobedient, poop in their diapers, write on the walls, and get the flu at the most (...) (20 years ago, 24-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) alright, let me throw everything out on the table: i am a Christian conservative. i am pro-family (that is marriage between a man and a woman), pro-life (the right for an unborn, helpless child to live), and i adhere to the best of my ability (...) (20 years ago, 24-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I beg your pardon? Do you actually hate these actions when performed by a child? That strikes me as a dangerous lack of self-control on the part of a parent. Wall-writing, diaper-pooping, and flu-getting are parts of being a child; a person (...) (20 years ago, 24-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) This "stay the course" attitude is laudable in some circles but is rightly recognized as irrational stubbornness by others. Can you conceive of any circumstance that would cause you to modify your views? Can you imagine any circumstance under (...) (20 years ago, 24-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Let me likewise then throw everything on the table-- I'm a Christian. I believe that God created the heavens and the earth. I believe that humanity, as stated in Genesis, was put here to be stewards of the planet and, when we get out there, (...) (20 years ago, 24-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) reality, my good friend, does not always determine what is right and what is wrong. needless to say my children will know about the "reality" of homosexuality sooner than i ever did. but to say that, "homosexuality, kids, is a part of society (...) (20 years ago, 24-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) I'm not actually sure what happened. (...) What exactly did God say? Not being perfect, yourself, how do you know He said it instead of some guy with a pen? (...) Without questioning what you BELIEVE God thinks or wants, and knowing that you (...) (20 years ago, 24-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Perfect example of how laws have changed as regards to murder. At one time, it was acceptable to offer a duel to a party who insulted you. If one or the other of you died (was murdered), there was no criminal penalty. Both of you went into it (...) (20 years ago, 24-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Tell me this: Is an action "right" because God says so, or is it "right" regardless of what God says? If the former, then it's an arbitrary moral system. If the latter, then God is subordinate to morality and therefore he's not supreme. (...) (20 years ago, 24-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Things that are clearly wrong are those things that clearly harm others. Like abuse and neglect of children. Not like consensual sexual activities. Homosexuality isn't right because it's part of society, it's right because no one is harmed. (...) (20 years ago, 24-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) "Let's Party!" -Dionysus Though I suspect you meant Jehovah... ;-) -->Bruce<-- Green-Eyed Devil's Advocate (20 years ago, 24-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Yes, until they try to dictate the behavior of others based on their own sense of morality. You can be a homophobe all you want, but the line is crossed when you try to restrict them from having the same freedom to participate that heteros (...) (20 years ago, 24-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Agreed, sir, but my point is simply that these people feel this way, whether they are being oppressed or not, and that is what they are reacting to. (...) Again, I agree, but in every case in life (not just this), a judgement call has to be (...) (20 years ago, 25-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Sir, I do hate (or strongly dislike) the results of these actions. Can you honestly tell me that you enjoy (or would enjoy) painting over permanent marks on the walls, changing poopy diapers, and scrubbing vomit out of the carpet, in and of (...) (20 years ago, 25-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) "Macro-Evolution" is a term used by pseudo-scientists. Inasmuch as evolution is merely change within a species over a very long time to the point that that species can no longer produce viable offspring with a former member of the same species (...) (20 years ago, 25-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) hmm..."superstition-N. 1. Belief in the suernatureal;irrational fear of the unknwon. 2. Pracice, belief or religion based on this" "Natural-N 1a. Existing in or caused by nature. (skipped a few) 8.Physically existing." OED Therefore, from a (...) (20 years ago, 25-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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Allow me to say: 1. It is the connotation of the word "superstition" that is unfair, not the strict definition itself. All book knowledge must be tempered with common sense. Othewise, I would not argue with your point here. 2. Everything is opinion (...) (20 years ago, 25-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Yes it is tempered with common sense. What you are saying (that god exists, that he will punish gays) is not proveable. Therefore, you have a superstition that this is what will happen. No proof, no evidence in favour of it. If you have (...) (20 years ago, 25-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Insisting to have one's way at the undue expense of even a single person is bad, even if you're part of the majority. Figuring out who is bearing the greater burden is the tricky part, and in this case, preventing a group to speak freely of (...) (20 years ago, 25-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) The line should always be drawn based on who is attempting to oppress another, not on whose view is "correct". That's the difference between preventing oppression and allowing the majority to oppress the minority. (...) Knowing that you're (...) (20 years ago, 25-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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Andrew, Two things: First, you're absolutely right in calling me one of the people stating opinion as fact. And I do know that I'm right. And please believe me when I tell you that I wish, more than almost anything else, that I was skilled enough at (...) (20 years ago, 26-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) That's not how you phrased the point, initially. You presented these actions in the context of a baby's actions, and that's how I addressed them. If you wish to change the question at this time, then you must either address or cede the (...) (20 years ago, 27-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) A word in defense of this statement; Andrew offers this as an example of me asserting that I have access to infallible truth. At face value, I can see how my statement can be interpreted that way, though it is not an interpretation with which (...) (20 years ago, 27-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) This brings up an idea that has been through my head on several occasions - if you use the definition "part of nature" for natural, then what can be defined as unnatural? After all, everything on this earth has been created by nature, either (...) (20 years ago, 28-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Well, everything that exists operates within the laws of nature, that doesn't mean it was created through natural processes. The natural ingredients and know-how that create a chemical concoction are natural, but the concoction itself isn't (...) (20 years ago, 28-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Well, that's how I was leaning too, ie natural = occurs without human intervention. However, I have often heard the argument Dave used above, which seems to contradict that, or at least not fit it exactly. And I don't think I've ever seen a (...) (20 years ago, 28-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) The term has invested with the connotation that I don't think it should have, honestly. In practice, the word tends to mean "altered by human intervention," but this definition is valid only if we declare that humans are not part of nature, or (...) (20 years ago, 28-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) I think your definition makes a lot of sense but the problem is that it doesn't give a distinguishing metric. (I've used that to great advantage when arguing against those that argue against "artificial flavours" for example). That said, what (...) (20 years ago, 28-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) **snip** (...) Here's a sweetheart of a quote that I can believe I forgot to mention: "I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming (...) (20 years ago, 28-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) You're citing Jefferson? You consider him "good company"? I'll have to remember that. :-) (20 years ago, 28-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) I may be misunderstanding you, but are you identifying the lack of a point of distinction (between natural and unnatural or natural and artificial) as the problem? I'm not clear on this objection, I'm afraid. (...) Yeah, I guess it's a matter (...) (20 years ago, 28-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) I've approached Jefferson several times with sure-fire business propositions, but he never returns my calls. Something about "entangling alliances." Dave! (20 years ago, 28-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) This is sort of how I feel. Of course it does seem to make unnatural a less useful term. Even supernatural is a difficult term, though it's use to separate God from God's creation (assuming you accept the existence of a creator god, or a (...) (20 years ago, 28-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) A problem for the other side, I guess, but yes, a problem. I know what the organic crowd is trying to get at, they'd rather not see manufactured banana flavourings in their milkshakes for example, and I know what the "homosexuality isn't (...) (20 years ago, 28-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Well the only musical reference that comes to mind is the song "It's Only Natural" by Crowded House. Did they have an album of that name too? ROSCO FUT: .o-t.fun (20 years ago, 29-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.fun, FTX)
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(...) Which is on the album "Woodface" IIRC. ROSCO (20 years ago, 29-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.fun, FTX)
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