Subject:
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Re: Why these news groups were created
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:49:44 GMT
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Viewed:
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2181 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Jason Coronado wrote:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Johannes Koehler wrote:
> > Hello!
> >
> >
> > > i actually grew up in a loving environment that taught me that right and
> > > wrong are absolutes and nothing is relative.
> >
> > So at least you are against Death Penalty. Nice to hear that!
> >
> >
> > Bye
> > Jojo
>
> alright, let me throw everything out on the table: i am a Christian
> conservative. i am pro-family (that is marriage between a man and a woman),
> pro-life (the right for an unborn, helpless child to live), and i adhere to the
> best of my ability to what the bumper sticker says.."GOD said it, i believe it,
> and that settles it". i am not perfect, but i will fight for what i believe and
> i will fight for the moral and physical well-being of my family. You can throw
> all kinds of circular logic and rhetoric my way to try to make me out to be a
> monster, but the fact is that i know better than to question what GOD says or
> does. your opinions are infinitesimal compared to
> GOD's wisdom. HE's my absolute, HE determines what is right or wrong, and that
> is all that matters. calling me a closed-minded bigot only fuels the fire
> within me.
> as for the death penalty, jojo, i find it absolutely detestable that we live in
> a society where murderers and child molesters have rights and unborn children do
> not. explain that one to me.
>
>
> if i can close this whole discussion up, then let me do it this way: i
> apologize for coming across like a jerk. i am trying to bring people to CHRIST
> in a loving and respectful way. apparently, i did the opposite here. my temper
> got the best of me, and obviously i have completely turned everyone off. i hold
> no ill-will toward any of you who debate me here. debate is healthy. please
> understand that i will NEVER change my views and turn against my savior. i
> will, however attempt to state my views in a respectful way in the future so
> that maybe we can discuss things on a level playing field. from now on, if you
> would like to continue to debate me, then please do it using my email address.
> i am here to talk about lego, and only lego.
Let me likewise then throw everything on the table--
I'm a Christian. I believe that God created the heavens and the earth. I
believe that humanity, as stated in Genesis, was put here to be stewards of the
planet and, when we get out there, the universe. I believe that 'God's Law' is
written on the hearts and minds of everyone, Christian or not(1). I beleive
that we are to be good to one another. I believe that wisdom comes from not
adhering to specific doctorine as prescribed by writings from a different time
and societal norms to the exclusion of those around us today. The second anyone
states that 'the only way to God is thru the blood of our saviour, Jesus Christ'
is the second people are excluded. It is a judgement, it is a 'denial of
service', it is unequivocably wrong and it's something that, from my readings of
the Gospels, Jesus wouldn't stand for.
To reinforce this point, I again bring up the example of Orthodox Jewish people,
who don't believe that the Messiah has shown up yet. By the statement above,
you have just condemned Orthodox Jews to hell. No you have--there is no room
for movement. God's chosen people are, by this statement, condemned.
As anotehr example, as brought up by me, Gandhi, a person who demonstrated more
of Christ's teachings and ways than anyone else in this past century (imho),
would, as well, be condemned because he certainly didn't believe in Jesus
Christ.
All excluded but Christians. Wait, no it's more like all excluded but specific
doctorine believing Christians.
I'm sorry, my God isn't that God. The Bible has many stories and parables, such
as, again brought up in this issue, the good samaratin--samaratins didn't
beleive in Jesus, yet Jesus used him or her as an example of God's law being
written on the hearts nad minds of non-believers. Sure it's just a parable, but
Jesus still taught it--made the hero of his little story a non-believer.
We should not point to specific passages and state "This is unequivocal! The
undeniable truth of God Almighty is right there!!" and state that this is
epitome of wisdom and truth. Rather, we should take the Bible, in its entirety
as the beginning of the foundation of understanding.
I shall leave this with my own parable--actually it's a direct rip-off of a
scene from The West Wing, but it's appropriate:
- - -
President Josiah Bartlet : Good. I like your show. I like how you call
homosexuality an abomination.
Dr. Jenna Jacobs : I don't say homosexuality is an abomination, Mr. President.
The Bible does.
President Josiah Bartlet : Yes it does. Leviticus.
Dr. Jenna Jacobs : 18:22.
President Josiah Bartlet : Chapter and verse. I wanted to ask you a couple of
questions while I have you here. I'm interested in selling my youngest daughter
into slavery as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She's a Georgetown sophomore, speaks
fluent Italian, always cleared the table when it was her turn. What would a good
price for her be? While thinking about that, can I ask another? My Chief of
Staff Leo McGarry insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says he
should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself or is it okay
to call the police? Here's one that's really important because we've got a lot
of sports fans in this town: touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean.
Leviticus 11:7. If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins
still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point? Does the whole town really
have to be together to stone my brother John for planting different crops side
by side? Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments
made from two different threads? Think about those questions, would you? One
last thing: while you may be mistaking this for your monthly meeting of the
Ignorant Tight-Ass Club, in this building, when the President stands, nobody
sits.
- - -
I don't think it gets much clearer than that.
Dave K
1- which would be a great discussion with Dave! and ++Lar, and >>Bruce<<, and
others about God's Law written on the hearts and minds of humanity vs the
evolutionary process of 'natual laws', which, I'm more than sure, they would
point out--"the product of evolution shows that being good to one another is
sound." Eh, maybe a topic for another time :)
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: Why these news groups were created
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| (...) alright, let me throw everything out on the table: i am a Christian conservative. i am pro-family (that is marriage between a man and a woman), pro-life (the right for an unborn, helpless child to live), and i adhere to the best of my ability (...) (20 years ago, 24-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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