Subject:
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Re: To change the tune...
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 6 Feb 2004 12:29:27 GMT
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Viewed:
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335 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal wrote:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal wrote:
> >
> > > That's just you propping up a straw man.
> >
> > Oh come on, John. You HAVE to admit the administration has been backpedaling
> > from their previous claims, even if Dave hasn't provided specific cites from
> > the various speeches. I mean, who has time?
>
> The reason I asked is because I know for a fact that nobody ever claimed
> such. It was blown intelligence and {everybody} bought it (why wouldn't they?
> SH, the complete idiot, {wanted} everyone to believe he had them. Bet he
> never thought we'd {actually} come after him! Strike {two} and you're out!)
"The Iraqi regime ... possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It
is seeking nuclear weapons." -- George W. Bush
"We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents,
including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas." -- George W. Bush
"We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of
manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or
biological weapons across broad areas. We're concerned that Iraq is exploring
ways of using these UAVS for missions targeting the United States." -- George W.
Bush
"The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program.
... Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other
equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for
nuclear weapons." -- Cincinnati, Ohio Speech, October 7, 2002 -- George W. Bush
"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to
produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent." -- State of
the Union Address, January 28, 2003 -- George W. Bush
"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the
Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons
ever devised." -- Address to the Nation, March 17, 2003 -- George W. Bush
Yet before 9/11
http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/powell-no-wmd.htm
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0306/S00211.htm
And most of the 'evidence' and 'intelligence' that Dubya speaks of was already
proven false, or at least questionable before the war (aluminum tubes and
Niger).
(love DU.com...)
Dubya *wanted* to invade Iraq--pure and simple. It wasn't the intelligence
community that was mistaken, it was the administration.
You can point out that France, Germany, Russia, and everyone else may have
thought that Saddam may have had WoMD, but these countries also didn't go to
war--they were letting Blix do the job that he was suppose to do. It wasn't
Saddam who kicked Blix out of the country--it was Dubya.
No one was turning a 'bline eye' to Saddam, no one was giving him a free ticket
to develop these non-existant programs.
So if there was no war, where would we be today? Instead of the US inspection
team coming back after finding nothing, and after the deaths of hundreds of
soldiers and thousands of civilians, and the wanton destruction of cities, Blix
would have come back after finding nothing, with no deaths or destruction.
> The Kerry camp should be pretty quiet-- he voted to go into Iraq, so even
> {he} must have bought it as well....
As Larry mentioned, many people did.
>
> As far as the Bush administration goes; yeah, they have egg on their face,
> but so does everyone else. Most who opposed the war acknowledged that SH had
> WMDs but mostly believed that Bush wanted Iraqi oil and contracts for
> Halliburton. Nobody got this one right.
Haliburton? Funny you should mention that...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A21186-2004Jan15¬Found=true
'Tis absolutely amazing how every plan that Dubya makes seems to have the
potential to send more money into the coffers of that company.
http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/04/01/con04020.html
Funny that.
> The good news is that we have a
> splendid opportunity to assist a great nation become democratic and free.
> God knows what disasterous future we averted by deposing SH-- we can only
> confront evil when we see it and act accordingly. If nothing else, the
> example of SH is a beacon of warning to current tin-pot dictators around the
> world who respect nothing but power-- the stakes are high and we aren't just
> whistlin' Dixie...
Yeah, if you look at the US the wrong way, they'll come over and 'kick yer
henie'. Good example.
"We can only confront evil when we see it and act accordingly"?
What 'evil' was there in Iraq in 2003 that you had this overwhelming need to
confront? It must've been a clear and imminent danger. Where was it? No one
can find it. Imagine that.
And again you state that getting rid of Saddam was the good thing. And again I
will reiterate--since when does the ends justify the means? The means, I may
add, which include, but are not limited to, the deaths of thousands of people,
the destruction of property, the expenditure of billions of dollars and the
lowering of the worlds opionon with regard to the integrity and honour of the US
administraition.
Lets see what happens the next time your president cries 'wolf!'.
> [JOHN]
Dave K
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: To change the tune...
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| By and large, I agree with DaveK's attack on our president. He lied to us and I believe, still, that he is a bad man. But that doesn't change the fact that Saddam Hussein is also a bad man. Really bad! I do believe that the world is a better place (...) (20 years ago, 6-Feb-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: To change the tune...
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| In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys wrote: (snipped quotations) What I thought: nowhere did he ever use the term "imminent". (...) The meaning of your non-sequitur eludes me. What Bush wanted was Saddam Hussein removed from power, period. (...) (...) (20 years ago, 8-Feb-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: To change the tune...
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| (...) The reason I asked is because I know for a fact that nobody ever claimed such. It was blown intelligence and everybody bought it (why wouldn't they? SH, the complete idiot, wanted everyone to believe he had them. Bet he never thought we'd (...) (20 years ago, 6-Feb-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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