 | | Re: More on Palestine —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | (...) You are going to have to do a little better than that at debunking... Is this quote "hogwash"? "Of course, "the right of Israel to exist" has never been accepted by its enemies, especially Yasser Arafat. " (I note you haven't answered whether (...) (23 years ago, 9-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: More on Palestine —Dave Low
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| | | | | (...) Larry, I might have missed it but given that Israel has a right to exist, what boundaries do you think it should have? The original partition boundaries, the current boundaries, the current boundaries with some concession to Palestinian (...) (23 years ago, 9-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: More on Palestine —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | (...) You didn't miss it, I don't think this particular question has ever arisen here. I freely admit I don't know the answer. (...) Some military theorists say the originial partition boundaries were indefensible and therefore unworkable. Israel's (...) (23 years ago, 9-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: More on Palestine —Daniel Jassim
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| | | | | (...) Okay... (...) Tell me, is this hogwash, straight from the Yitzhak Rabin Center for Israel Studies?: (URL)(I note you haven't answered whether you think it has a right to exist (...) Didn't I addressed that off-line with you? If not, obviously (...) (23 years ago, 9-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: More on Palestine —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | (...) thinking about how events would unfold. Had these events unfolded as promised, the PA would recognise the right of Israel to exist, correct? Yet you still apparently do not, correct? I went to what I think is the official PA site www.pna.net (...) (23 years ago, 9-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: More on Palestine —Dan Boger
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| | | | | | | not sure if this might be helpful, and I'm aware it's not an "independant" site, but I thought it made for some interesting reading: (URL) (23 years ago, 9-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Israel and Palestine —Daniel Jassim
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| | | | | | Here are some 'yes or no' questions and I've already supplied my answers for you, Larry. Hopefully, these are all the answers you need: 1. Do I think the current Zionist state of Israel has a right to exist? No. 2. Do I think the state of Israel (...) (23 years ago, 9-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Israel and Palestine —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | | (...) Is this offensive & defensive action? Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 9-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Israel and Palestine —Daniel Jassim
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| | | | | | | | (...) What do you mean? Its clear the Israelis are on the offensive by the fact that they are occupying Palestinian land. So every Israeli soldier is logically considered part of the occupying force and a threat to Palestinian freedom. Therefore, (...) (23 years ago, 9-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Israel and Palestine —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | (...) Just for my own edification, if a Jewish family could produce a legitimate deed from, say, eight or ten centuries ago documenting their ownership of a piece of property in modern Palestinian land, would you accept that deed as proof of their (...) (23 years ago, 9-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Israel and Palestine —Daniel Jassim
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| | | | | | | | (...) Absolutely, and there are Arab Jews with such deeds that Israel also will not recognize. It's not a question of religion, it's basically racism. Arab Jews are second class Jews in Israel because the Zionists regard Palestinians as transients. (...) (23 years ago, 9-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Israel and Palestine —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | (...) Would it be possible for ownership to be *purchased* from legitimate previous owners rather than having had to have been in the family all that time? Or are you saying that purchasing land can't be done, only inheritance is acceptable as a (...) (23 years ago, 9-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Israel and Palestine —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Do you think this would really be practical? Do we unwind all the way back to the first settlers? How do we deal with the wealth which has been generated from those lands? I'm curious as to how and where we draw the line. Perhaps it is prudent (...) (23 years ago, 10-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Israel and Palestine —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) I am not sure but we'll never know unless we start trying to figure out how to do it in detail. We would need to organise some set of stakeholders to sit down and do it (perhaps the folks from a particular small region) with the clear and (...) (23 years ago, 10-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Israel and Palestine —Daniel Jassim
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| | | | | | | | (...) Sure. I have no doubt that property deeds in Palestine changed hands just the same as property in Anytown, U.S.A. People there moved and sold their homes and farms just like anyone else. (...) No, I'm not saying that and neither are the (...) (23 years ago, 10-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Israel and Palestine —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | | | | (...) One of the issues I have raised is at what point do we accept the acts of conquest. No one can document that they own their land free and clear of ANY conquest. Conquests of territory started before the invention of writing. So at some point, (...) (23 years ago, 10-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Israel and Palestine —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | (...) And in that case and every one like it, I fully support return, with compensatory damages, if the claim is valid (sounds like it is.) (...) This sentence doesn't help present your case. (...) Agreed. I had thought they bought it from the (...) (23 years ago, 10-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Israel and Palestine —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | (...) Thanks for the cogent restatement! (...) ... but forgive me if the answers raise more questions (...) I can see your reasoning even if I don't agree... but how would the chain of events unfold to get from 1 to 2 below? Does the current state (...) (23 years ago, 9-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Israel and Palestine —Daniel Jassim
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| | | | | | | | (...) Israel must renounce Zionism, which is a racist, fanatical, exclusionist and intolerant political belief that regards the Holy Land as exclusively the home of the Jews and Judaism, and deems that Christianity and Islam have no place there. (...) (23 years ago, 9-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Israel and Palestine —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | (...) Are you prepared to support complete and full reparation of all property taken from these European Jews? Personally, I'd actually like to see that. I also wonder if their concerns had been taken seriously earlier whether we would be in the (...) (23 years ago, 9-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Israel and Palestine —Daniel Jassim
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| | | | | | | (...) Why not? There have already been numerous lawsuits regarding post-WWII settlements regarding property and assets of Jewish families that survived the Holocaust. I support any efforts to bring misdoings to light and seek justice for all victims (...) (23 years ago, 9-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Israel and Palestine —Horst Lehner
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| | | | | | (...) It seems the majority of Israeli voted an administration in place that is more part of the problem than part of the solution. So, how can you back this statement? :wq Horst (23 years ago, 15-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: More on Palestine —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | (...) Are you now saying Syria is a moderate Arab state? Who said this: "Some countries are better than others. Syria is one of the worst on just about any metric you care to name. Any metric." Do you views change with the wind? Scott A (23 years ago, 9-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: More on Palestine —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | (...) Quoting: "moderate Arab states (and Syria)" Note the conjunction, used here to connect DISSIMILAR things. If *the speaker* had felt Syria was moderate, he would have said: "moderate Arab states including Syria" or words to that effect. So *the (...) (23 years ago, 9-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: More on Palestine —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | (...) I agree. (...) (URL) leader Yasser Arafat told Israeli reporters the PNC would be prepared to vote on the anti-Israel clauses, going further than the conditions laid down in the Wye River agreement. The Wye accord commits Israel to withdrawals (...) (23 years ago, 9-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: More on Palestine —Horst Lehner
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| | | | (...) Arafat may have taken some time to accept, but by now he accepted. Doesn't help much, though, given ... ... the number of Palestines organized in more radical organizations than PA ... the current Israeli administration "Especially Yasser (...) (23 years ago, 11-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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