Subject:
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Re: Israel and Palestine
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 10 Oct 2001 06:39:09 GMT
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Viewed:
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612 times
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> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> Would it be possible for ownership to be *purchased* from legitimate
> previous owners rather than having had to have been in the family all that
> time?
Sure. I have no doubt that property deeds in Palestine changed hands just
the same as property in Anytown, U.S.A. People there moved and sold their
homes and farms just like anyone else.
> Or are you saying that purchasing land can't be done, only inheritance
> is acceptable as a transfer mechanism?
No, I'm not saying that and neither are the Palestinians. And they wouldn't
need to say that since its plain as day that they're still around and
waiting to return to there homes. Many can walk right up, with loads of
neighbors for witnesses, and say "This is where my house/farm used to be,
overlooking the meadow, and here's the land title." The Zionist European
Jews want to follow the inheritance thing but their claims are farts in the
wind.
> This is still hypothetical... but if
> the pre 1948 Jewish (and other) immigrants just came in and shoved people
> off their land instead of buying their way in, that HAS to be fixed.
Zionists always dispute the fact of land theft by saying that they "fairly"
purchased the land from the British. This is a piss poor argument because
the British themselves were invaders and they eventually left. To say that
such transactions were legitimate is to say I can steal your car and sell it
to someone else making it legally theirs. I don't believe in that sort of BS.
> In a previous post in this thread, Dan, you say that there are Palestinians
> who hold clear provable title that Israel is not recognising. If that's
> true, it is totally unacceptable and needs to be fixed too.
It is true. I recall a PBS documentary many, many years ago that discussed
this matter (it may have been with Bill Moyers).
> Now that we are on the ground of property rights, Dan, you've found
> something with which to garner my support, as this is close to home for me...
>
> I support the right of people everywhere to self determination, to own
> property and material goods honestly acquired and to be free from violence
> and oppression, and those all are things that the Palestinians (and others
> in the region) have been denied.
>
> I just don't see the PA as a vehicle likely to get them these things.
The PA is still in fledgling form so I expect things to get worse before
they get better. However, the road is longer and harder for Palestinians
because they've been disconnected from the world for so long and any sudden
shift often creates more chaos.
> Further I support the notion of trying (within limits, as Frank said) to find
> and correct past injustices to the extent practical. That may well mean
> unwinding a *lot* of land transactions in the US for example... I'd rather
> do that and get closure, than continue to grant a blank check of guilt about
> it to the chattering classes...
True. I get the feeling Frank views the Israel/Palestine situation as
parallel with our dealings with Native Americans. However, there is a big
difference here, namely that much less time has passed in the Middle East
and the Palestinians overwhelmingly outnumber the Israelis.
Dan
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Israel and Palestine
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| (...) One of the issues I have raised is at what point do we accept the acts of conquest. No one can document that they own their land free and clear of ANY conquest. Conquests of territory started before the invention of writing. So at some point, (...) (23 years ago, 10-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Israel and Palestine
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| (...) And in that case and every one like it, I fully support return, with compensatory damages, if the claim is valid (sounds like it is.) (...) This sentence doesn't help present your case. (...) Agreed. I had thought they bought it from the (...) (23 years ago, 10-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Israel and Palestine
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| (...) Would it be possible for ownership to be *purchased* from legitimate previous owners rather than having had to have been in the family all that time? Or are you saying that purchasing land can't be done, only inheritance is acceptable as a (...) (23 years ago, 9-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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