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(...) For those keeping score at home, Kirby just stated in writing that his understanding is based on ignorance. Dave! (23 years ago, 24-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: An armed society...(what if?)
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(...) Well, what do you expect? They put together a step-by-step manual of how to hack into every computer on the planet. Naturally the Secret Service had to take steps. Dave! (23 years ago, 24-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) So the oppressors had better weapons? Hmm, does your big bad government not have better weapons also? (...) They were armed. It is you who think that arms can protect you against a well trained force - I'm not so sure. (...) You mean France? (...) (23 years ago, 24-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: An armed society...(what if?)
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(...) But we all know that Gamers (weird) can't be affected by the Secret Service (government) - it was a foregone conclusion. Fnord. Bruce (23 years ago, 24-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Here you are being a fool. The Native Americans were lulled into a trust with the colonies. As time wore on, they began to depend on European lifestlyes, including hunting with rifles. Later as conflict grew, their population was largely (...) (23 years ago, 24-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: An armed society...(what if?)
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(...) What's the difference if the gun is at home or at a person's side, they are still armed to protect themselves. As the law stands people still have the right to arm themselves, which is what the gun debate is all about to begin with. I simply (...) (23 years ago, 24-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Bwaaa! You just made my day, Fredrik. LFB (23 years ago, 24-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) In no.* groups, we have a rule which goes: Whenever the Hitler name is mentioned, the thread is decleared dead. This is called "to hitle" a thread. :) Fredrik (23 years ago, 24-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: An armed society...(what if?)
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(...) What does it mean to "live unarmed?" I'd wager that living armed can vary--if you have a handgun locked away somewhere in the home, that's very different from "packing" 24/7/365. I'd bet that the vast majority--more than 95%--of gun owners fit (...) (23 years ago, 24-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) And don't forget, the 2001 equivalent of the H-bomb: "Osama bin Laden." best LFB (23 years ago, 24-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) ...and then use it as an excellent selling point on his website! ;) best LFB (23 years ago, 24-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Because that is what the media and the focus groups want. :=\ Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 24-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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"Simon Bennett" <simon.bennett@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:GqFsCC.Mvy@lugnet.com... (...) And further more, why was the American citizen who was captured with the al-qiada taken to Washington, and not to Cuba? So suddenly it is one rule for (...) (23 years ago, 24-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Nonsense. (...) What about the native americans, were they not armed? (...) Not me personally. The community I live in. (...) Democracy is the limit. In the UK governments have fallen due to protests, not armed rebellion. When will the USA (...) (23 years ago, 24-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) As an aside to begin with I am concerned that no Americans have responded to this thread. Possible reasons for this are: They have not seen the pictures we have and so do not think the prisoners are being mistreated. They have seen more (...) (23 years ago, 24-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Enron and the CA Power Crisis Connection...
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[Now that I have likely pissed off my pal Dave! and made strange bedfellows with conspiracy freak Kirby, I thought I'd try to change the direction in debate with this bit of information jerky. Have fun chewing.] Y'know, I was just mulling over the (...) (23 years ago, 24-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: An armed society...
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(...) amen (23 years ago, 24-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: An armed society...(what if?)
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(...) Be sure to thank the media for setting the people straight on the matter. (...) President Wilson managed to sign into law the Federal Reserve as well as the 16th Amendment. (...) The individual cases are not conspiracies unto themselves. The (...) (23 years ago, 24-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Wouldn't it be nice if Americans woke up before they have to learn the hard way. Well Thomas Jefferson at least knew that we would one day reach the point where the Declaration of Independance would need to be re-issued. It is nice to know (...) (23 years ago, 24-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti writes: <snip> (...) I am SO glad someone FINALLY brought this up! The Federal Reserve and the 16th Amendment were beget by President Wilson. Mr. Wilson was heavily influenced by a friend of the (...) (23 years ago, 24-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | "facts" (was Re: An armed society...)
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(...) <snip> I've been thinking about "facts" lately. Specifically statistics, polls, charts/graphs...etc. If pro gun advocates use "facts" to show the need for guns, anti-gun advocates can show just as many "facts" to show the uselessness of guns. (...) (23 years ago, 24-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Definitions (was: An armed society...)
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(...) In a way that's my point, ultimately one has to admit that one knows precisely what a word means and stop playing the semantics game. The semantics game is almost endless if the point is to NEVER reach accord. My point was to show that there (...) (23 years ago, 24-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Hmmmf. Doesn't that definition also depend on the meaning of "citizen"? ROSCO (nit-picking again) (23 years ago, 24-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) And a Lugnet contributor and featured guest of BricksWest is proof that it IS possible to win against the government after one of these outrageous confiscations... Frank (23 years ago, 24-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: An armed society...
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(...) Since this has evolved into a gun control debate, I thought the original message should be returned to. "An armed society is a polite society," is the quote used often by gun advocates to somehow indicate that politeness-by-threat is somehow (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: An armed society...(what if?)
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(...) This could be the case, but it could also be the case that people think the need for such a right has passed. I would think it would take either a consititutional amendment (no easy thing) or a series of presidents that had a litmus test on (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: An armed society...
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(...) [snip] (...) I think discounting the possibility of change is short-sighted. The world changes. Laws change. Governments change. People change. Maybe this hasn't changed in a long time, but the fact there's a significant opposition to it (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: An armed society...
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(...) I have posted about the Ashwander Doctrine before -- read it and connect the dots, pretty please. (URL) the record, I am not exactly a card-carrying NRA kinda guy...I barely care what they do. (...) No, taxation is Constitutional because of (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Actually, you would be missing the "duty" part of my argument in this little debate. But whatever... To fully understand the historical context of this debate, it is my opinion that those on the side of gun-control should read William (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: An armed society...
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(...) Then it's odd that the NRA, the most vociferous and organized proponents of so-called gun rights, has never brought a case successfully before the Supreme Court, despite numerous opportunities to try. You are of course correct regarding the (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: An armed society...(what if?)
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(...) To do otherwise means you have to take on BY CHOICE the life forced upon Frodo and Sam Wise in LOTR -- to risk everything at each new moment striving for freedom. It's so much easier to build a series of temporary autonomous zones, and just (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Dave, your post is too full of errors to take on as a whole so I picked just this one spot. I think it is also an erroneous statement. I could certainly mount arguments that would show that the second amendment is indeed a protection to keep (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) My point is that it's one thing for an author (not you, but the guy who put up that site) to cite an anecdotal and misrepresentational summary of a ruling, and it's quite another to post a link to an entire argument and highlight certain areas (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: An armed society...
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(...) abridged citations, right? I am just not wasting my time picking apart the wording and finding facts and figures to contradict yours -- I know they exist. We aren't going to settle this discussion in any way by arguing over statistics. BTW, (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Well, in terms of Constitutional interpretation, it *is* the supreme word on the matter, until either congress legislates a higher law or another case before the Supreme Court results in an overturning of Miller. (...) Here's the text: (URL) I (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Well, the obvious source is by Kellerman and Reay: "Protection or Peril? An Analysis of Firearm Related Deaths in the Home." The New England Journal of Medicine, vol. 314, no. 24, June 1986, pp. 1557-60. Gun apologists cite poor methodology (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) You are noting the difference between the "holding" in a decision, and what is termed "obiter dictum." ob·i·ter dic·tum, pl. ob·i·ter dic·ta. 1. an incidental or passing remark, opinion, etc. 2. Law. an incidental or supplementary opinion by a (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Can we amend that rule so that the first mention of "Big Brother," "jackbooted thugs," or "brave new world" in any non-literary context is likewise a forfeiture? Dave! (23 years ago, 23-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: An armed society...(what if?)
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With every gun debate I see/read, it seems to me more people would rather live unarmed. I seems likely to me that, within my lifetime, guns will be outlawed from private citizens. Why do I think this likely? Because I just don't see enough people (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) But we need guns to prevent crime, right? Oh, wait... According to (URL)Most people took multiple precautions during the last year to protect (...) So it's a good thing we need to protect ourselves from the Guvmint--otherwise we wouldn't have (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jan-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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