 | | Re: From a mailing list
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Hello Larry, (...) Not talking about the time to USE it ... ;-) Greetings Horst (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Origins Debate
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler writes: <snip> (...) Let me restate my position this way: FACT: Many, many species exist and have existed on Earth. The first species which appeared were very simple, single-celled organisms, without nuclei. (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Raving Out Loud (was: Thinking Out Loud...)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes: <snip the parts that I agree with and that aren't needed for the following> (...) I'm with you on the "some popular opinion" part, but I don't see the president as calling for us to go (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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(...) I want to apologise for "lumping you in with that chump Scott Arthur"(1) when it comes to debating, that wasn't my intent by naming the two of you at the start of the thread. It's just that you two are the "usual suspects" when it comes to (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Raving Out Loud (was: Thinking Out Loud...)
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Eric, your note suggests that you just generally missed the point. But there are few point in particular that I think are worth making. (...) Your tone suggests not only that you think his safety could be imperiled, but also that you wouldn't be too (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) I heard on the news today (unconfirmed, so it could be wrong) that the cockpit voice recorder on 93 has "clear evidence of sounds of battle in the cockpit just prior to the plane going down". Pacifists don't typically get involved in battles. (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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(...) That's just your personal characterization of how you THINK I feel about stuff, and not really accurate at all. I never said or thought what you just wrote, that's too baseless and generic and I don't think that way. I don't appreciate being (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) Eric, let's not go there. I happen to think Richard goes a bit too far but if we cannot tolerate voices of dissent and discuss this rationally we are too far gone to triumph, and too far gone to *deserve* to triumph (1). All viewpoints should (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) Hmmm. OK. It seemed like some were making a pretty big point of it... (...) To my knowledge we have not physically acted in response to what happened yet. I think you should wait on the rushing to conclusions part because until we do something (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Who are we to judge?
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Snippety snip (...) All? This isn't about Christian(1) vs. Islamic cultures, this is about relatively free cultures vs. relatively barbaric ones. Our culture (faults and all, taken as a whole) is superior to the Taliban (virtues and all). That makes (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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(...) Whether it is or not(1) does not answer the questions I posed. As I see it there are two possibilities - The PA is not a terrorist organisation and you choose not to defend it - The PA is a terrorist organization and you choose not to admit it (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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(...) Actually, I don't agree with either your factual assertions or that Israel or the U.S. are to blame for all the miseries of the world (more or less Dan's viewpoint). Personally, I think there's enough blame to go around to all participants! (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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Dan, PERSONALLY, I think this is a personal issue between you and the world. You are constantly spouting that Israel and the US are the root of all evil, everything is obviously their (and our) fault, and if they'd just go away, the world would be a (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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Yeah, but you know what guys -- who cares about pacifism? Pacifism is beside the point... The point is whether we should retaliate violently absent proof of the correctness of what we are doing. The point is whether we should be rushing to (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Who are we to judge?
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(...) Those two statements are really quite different, and I see the whole as the beginnings of a convoluted argument intended to illicit precisely the sort of arguments I would mount against it. The first part of the argument is related to one's (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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(...) <snipped> As far as I'm concerned, Larry, the Israeli government is one big terrorist organization. It began that way and remains that way. It seems that you're making this a personal issue between us so take it to e-mail. Dan (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) An *excellent* point. In addition, your point illustrates a good refutation of the oft-quoted line by Gandhi about "many things are worth dying for, nothing is worth killing for." If, for instance, the passengers had reason to suspect, as they (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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(...) If those defenders had had a chance to have guns (even if many restrictions were placed as to gun type, load type, training, etc), they might have had a better chance of stopping the terrorists. Who knows, they MIGHT have had a chance to land (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) This is one of the most ridiculous statements I've seen on this whole topic. Without violence? How ludicrous! "Please Mr. Terrorist, can I have control of the plane?" "Why sure you can, good man, here you go" Passive resistance taking a plane (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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(...) I heard this great idea on the radio today. It apparently came from The heritage Foundation. Instead of just handing $15 billion to the airlines, make an advance purchase of about $16 billion worth of vouchers for airline tickets for (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Who are we to judge?
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There are some that say that it is not America's place to say we are morally superior to terrorist regimes, that all cultures must be valued equally. This writer is not one of those people: (URL) is this one: (URL) am I. (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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(...) In my delight that you admitted that the PA censors without needing to be prodded as much as usual, I forgot to follow up on the rest of the article... you focused on the censorship of the press part and admitted that it is true, although you (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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(...) I'm not very happy with what I've heard of this bail-out. I think that the airlines deserve reasonable compensation from the government for losses as a result of the forced grounding, and, while I recognize that the airlines to some degree (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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(...) <snip> (...) Actually according the the AJC this is already happening: (URL) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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(...) But, But... if Joe Smith decided not to pay, he isn't going to be flying. At least not with me, anyway. I certainly will not choose an airline that won't take the maximum steps to ensure my safety. I plan to quiz NWA quite closely about that. (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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(...) Sheer madness! Bruce (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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(...) But the effects of that decision outweigh the need for the individual to preserve that decision-making right, unless only the individual is going to be affected by the decision. That is, if a plane is to be hijacked and used to kill several (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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(...) Speaking of which, I'm not too keen on what I seem to be hearing about the airline bailout bill. Some background... The exact story of why it is that the airlines are in charge of gate security and sort of *not* in charge as well is very (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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(...) In 1999, there were 8,718 firearm related homocides in the US. So you're probably right. But the broad-picture statistics suggest that as the concealed-carry rate increases, the violent crime rate decreases. So I'd claim that that high number (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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(...) I think you're going to have a hard time proving that statistic to actually be true, or if it is, that it's a causal link, or if it is a causal link, that banning guns would actually make any difference (plowed ground alert). However, on a (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From a mailing list
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(...) It's a matter of priorities... I'd rather flap gums here or pilot MLCad than go do research on which DVD to buy. (...) I've been put on a budget... and LEGO HAS to come first. :-) So I gotta sell more than I buy. Boy is *that* hard... (...) (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From a mailing list
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(...) I always get a chuckles when you say stuff like this. You choose to spend you time and money the way you do. I think it's unreasonable to suggest that a man with enough time to license, build, and market that very nice Skyline piece _can't_ (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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Hello Chris, (...) Given the fact that even in the Sep. 11 disaster, less people were probably killed than are killed in a "normal" year by use of guns in the US, I tend to prefer NOT to legalize taking firearms into planes. Maybe a few armed (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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Hello Larry, (...) Well, it seems I need to elaborate on this, then. First, the article states: (...) This is the right question to ask, and it is EXACTLY why I am so critical towards military action. A few paragraphs further down, you can read in (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From a mailing list
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(...) That's directed at those who in the past have flamed me for posting stuff I get in my email, not at you.... (...) Oh, well I didn't post it because I agreed with it 100%. I posted it because I think a wide variety of voices need to be heard. (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From a mailing list
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Hello Larry, (...) Why should I flame you? This idea just takes the approach I was trying to advocate to the extreme, and I like the idea a lot! The good thing about it is: If it doesn't work, it still costs less and carries less risk than any other (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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Hello Eric, (...) I find "pacifism" a gross mischaracterization of the US reaction to islamistic terror in the past. True, not every attack got its direct military response, but pacifism is not one of those things you can switch on and off on a (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: "The Roots of Muslim Rage"
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Hello, (...) Sounds a lot different from what seems to be preparing now. I am not sure whether I agree completely, though. It may be wise to help moderate Moslems, rather than just sit back and wait for them to sort it out. But, as I said, no (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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(...) Not following you there. The author was making a point about who the militia was, a point that many (with their prattle about the militia being exclusively the National Guard) miss, or worse, deliberately distort. (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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(...) One might wonder how much less destruction there would have been on 11 September if some or many of the passengers had been armed. Even assuming that the terrorists were also, there were many more passengers than madmen. I'd prefer those odds. (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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