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(...) I've been avoiding weighing in on this issue but.. How about a double hyphen, '--' -Orion (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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In lugnet.cad.dev, Steve Bliss writes: <snip> (...) <snip> (...) The point of setting an 'LDraw.org Compatible' format would be to set the framework of LDraw files, not to restrict what can be in LDraw files. If a programmer wants to implement thier (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Latest BFC Spec?
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(...) Do we really need to put the revision number next to every line? I find that astheically annoying. The way we do it in Nuke land is put a heavy black line in the margin next to all the lines that changed from the last revision. -Orion (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) I was trying to refrain from posting too many messages on issues that had already been cleared up. Besides, I'm trying to collect my thoughts on the SB for a single post. Steve (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) Not really. The important thing with the parts library is that files are accepted and added the distribution file. We don't even have a '0 Official' any more - now it's '0 LDRAW_ORG'. I was envisioning the 'LDraw.org Compatible' program to be (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) I agree. (...) What's wrong with -? Steve (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Latest BFC Spec?
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(...) I think that's all right. (...) Hey, it looked like so much fun ... I don't think you were around for the old days. I might not have replied to every message in .cad, but it was close to that. Steve (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Latest BFC Spec?
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(...) I think it could, in models and unofficial stuff. But I don't think it would be useful in the official parts library. Steve (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: The DOS apps (was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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(...) Make sure you've installed LDRAW027.EXE -- that should resolve the runtime 200 problem. Steve (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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But, isn't that more-or-less exactly what happens with the parts library? (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) So we (well, the SB eventually) decide on one way, stick to it, and implement it in programs. We can put a request in to Michael Lachmann to change the insertion of "WRITE" (which is an improper use of a meta-command) with "//" so future (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) Good point. Thanks for nit-correcting, I think the intent is there on my part but semantics can play a role in whether or not people like/dislike an idea. (...) You're right on that part. That's why it would be a good thing to encourage (not (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) They might be comfortable with any number of conventions, but I guarantee they will forget sometimes if you try to require them to change the way they enter comments. --Travis Cobbs (tcobbs@REMOVE.halibut.com) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Latest BFC Spec?
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(...) OK, I'll start working on it. It might take a few days. Before I start, though I'd like to suggest resetting all line-version tags in the current version to 1, and then making my new changes as version 2. Given how long it's been since the (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Latest BFC Spec?
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(...) I hadn't thought about NOCLIP. (...) I think that FORCE would be more useful if it overrode NOCERTIFY, but not NOCLIP. When you say NOCERTIFY, you're saying you don't know how the file should be culled. When you say NOCLIP, you're saying you (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) Has a hyphen been used anywhere for a similar purpose? I'm not aware of it. I'm one of the least-techy of the bunch, though I can hack some code, and I think it's better to stick to what most know, as long as it's not cumbersome like {}. I (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) you mean $puctuation++ > ! $puctuation ? $goodness++ : $goodness-- ; ? (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.off-topic.geek)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) Right. Elsewhere in the thread you'll see I tested it in LEdit and it crashed -- that was soon ruled out of the discussion, at least for now :-) (...) Nit: That's a bit too much for my tastes. What's wrong with //? -Tim (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) Very good point. In my conversations with a few semi-outsiders to the LDraw community, they believed systems could (or should, I see your [1] and rase you that) be established to encourage participation and compliance, but could not/should not (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) ROFL!!! :-) -Tim PS - Steve, while you posted quite a bit all at once, this isn't quite the "shock and awe" I was expecting. ;-) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) I believe Lar mad the case that the SB can/should include people from all camps. I for the most part agree, because we need perspectives from the various types of people who create [elements of] and use this system. -Tim (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Charter Org for LDraw.org (was: Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility))
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(...) Cool. I put 'nonprofit' in to emphasize the nature of the organization. While I've taken a cursory look at information on "nonprofit corporations," I'm not totally aware of alternatives. Obviously, we want to travel down the route that creates (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) ... and no. IMO, if the meta statement isn't listed in the current file format document, it's open to change. The meta-commands on that document (pulling from memory): STEP, PRINT, WRITE, SAVE (?!), (I gave up, dug out the code) PAUSE, CLEAR, (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) can snag a copy of that. Steve (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) Right. But newer OS's and video cards are becoming less compatible with DOS programs, especially DOS programs that do graphics. I used to be able to run LDraw with Super-VGA resolutions (with Win95, I think). I haven't been able to that in (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Latest BFC Spec?
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(...) Hmm. To tell you the truth, I don't remember. My main use for it is to make sure patterns are rendered on the backside of transparent solids. I will *allow* that NOCLIP/CLIP can be used to allow non-compliant sections of code, but I don't feel (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Latest BFC Spec?
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(...) Absolutely. :) The spec was never ratified or 'officially' accepted as a standard. Parts of it are have definitely evolved as the defacto standard, but that's not the same as having a good, documented standard to follow. I think the spec can (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Latest BFC Spec?
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(...) I could kind of see that, but not in the parts library. I would expect that any file in the library that specifies NOCLIP does it for a good reason, and should not be overrode (overridden?). What I could maybe see in the parts library is a (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Latest BFC Spec?
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(...) During the rendering process, it is necessary to keep track of both the 'accumulated clip-state' and the 'local clip-state'. The accumulated clip-state is logically equivalent to boolean ANDing the local clip-states of all the parent files. As (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Charter Org for LDraw.org (was: Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility))
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In lugnet.cad.dev, Tim Courtney wrote: [snippity-do-dah] (...) Whoa there! There is a *huge* difference between a 'formal organization' and a 'formal nonprofit organization'. If you were using 'nonprofit' informally, please *don't*. 'nonprofit' (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) I agree. (...) Nit: we've already *got* an LDraw file format spec. Next item! (...) 'Control' is heavy-handed for my tastes. 'Support', 'endorse', 'coordinate' are all better. All a standards body could do is manage the documentation, and (...) (22 years ago, 21-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) Dan, You program in *Perl*. Of course you think it's good to always have punctuation. You probably think more punctuation == better. ;) Steve (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) True, but that's no reason to have (unnecessary) complications. The computer will understand whatever we set it up to understand. LIGHTVALS, {LIGHTVALS}, 32.6, it's all the same to the silicon. Syntax is for users, beginning or advanced. If we (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) Depends on how open or closed the SB is. I think there's a place for part authors and users as well as developers. Steve (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) Tim, I've been reading this thread, and you keep mentioning this 'Steve' person. 'Steve this' and 'Steve that'. I must have gone through 100 messages by now, and no 'Steve' has shown up. I'm beginning to suspect you are imagining this 'Steve' (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) I really agree with Dan on this point. As I mentioned in another message, a standards body could certainly come up with suggestions for standard commands, but they wouldn't have any power of enforcement. About the only thing ldraw.org could[1] (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) Because it wouldn't be supported by LDraw and LEdit. Part files frequently include comments, so any standard option for commenting should be allowable in the parts library. (...) Some people already use COMMENT. Steve (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) Rosco, Unfortunately, MLCAD's use of WRITE is a really bad example, because MLCAD is mis-using an already standard meta-command. Plus, 0 WRITE statements are not allowed in official parts, so any part authors who create their files in MLCAD (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) I support that (general) guideline. The only real difficulty is if the meta-command becomes generally accepted, and is 'promoted' to being an accepted standard. We'd either want a different prefix for org standards, or no prefix. Either way (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) I agree with Larry -- support it publically. Recognize '0 LTrax xxxx' as the primary syntax for the command. Especially, let the author of the original command know that you are implement their command. Hopefully, that will give them cause to (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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