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Hi all!
Jan Beyer has shown us parts of the new train System in Frechen/Germany.
Just some unassortet aspects and informations.
- The track is full plastic as already seen.
- The train base is 32 studs long and contrains IR recievers on both sides and
battery box (included and not removable).
- the train motor has plastic wheels.
- the wheels show spokes on their faxe sides and have technik axle holes.
- the motor has special technic axle holes (nearly with cylindrical bore: so
they have a "slip-under-overload-effect")
- no new track radius is planned (so far) as Jan mentioned
- the engine needs 6 pieces of small standard batteries => still a 9V system
- the control panel (made for lefthanded kids as it seemed to us) has only 4
knobs and a frequency switch.
knob 1: signal horn (in panel)
knob 2: stop
knob 3: pos. accelleration (speed up or break rearwars drive)
knob 4: negative. accelleration (break or speed up backwarts)
The frequency switch allows to choose betweeen 3 frequencies or controls all 3
frequencies at one time. I ask myself, what would happen if any of my three
nephews wanted to own a second train....
Kind Regards,
Ben
P.s.: the new mindstorms system got presented as well (even photos were allowd).
The mindstorms fans where really exited and positive against the system. I have
no idea about the old mindstorms so I cannot tell anything about improovements
now....
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In lugnet.trains, Reinhard "Ben" Beneke wrote:
> Hi all!
>
> Jan Beyer has shown us parts of the new train System in Frechen/Germany.
>
> Just some unassortet aspects and informations.
>
> - The track is full plastic as already seen.
> - The train base is 32 studs long and contrains IR recievers on both sides and
> battery box (included and not removable).
> - the train motor has plastic wheels.
> - the wheels show spokes on their faxe sides and have technik axle holes.
> - the motor has special technic axle holes (nearly with cylindrical bore: so
> they have a "slip-under-overload-effect")
> - no new track radius is planned (so far) as Jan mentioned
> - the engine needs 6 pieces of small standard batteries => still a 9V system
> - the control panel (made for lefthanded kids as it seemed to us) has only 4
> knobs and a frequency switch.
> knob 1: signal horn (in panel)
> knob 2: stop
> knob 3: pos. accelleration (speed up or break rearwars drive)
> knob 4: negative. accelleration (break or speed up backwarts)
>
> The frequency switch allows to choose betweeen 3 frequencies or controls all 3
> frequencies at one time. I ask myself, what would happen if any of my three
> nephews wanted to own a second train....
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Ben
>
> P.s.: the new mindstorms system got presented as well (even photos were allowd).
> The mindstorms fans where really exited and positive against the system. I have
> no idea about the old mindstorms so I cannot tell anything about improovements
> now....
thank you for the info ben!
i have a couple quick questions i hope you don't mind.
is there any info on a release date?
the wire that goes to the motor, is that the same old 2x2 conecter?
i assume the battery box is on the bottom side of the train base, is this a
correct assumption?
is the base screwed together or glued?
pictures?????
thanks,
ondrew
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In lugnet.trains, Ondrew Hartigan wrote:
> In lugnet.trains, Reinhard "Ben" Beneke wrote:
[SNIP]
> thank you for the info ben!
>
> i have a couple quick questions i hope you don't mind.
>
> is there any info on a release date?
> the wire that goes to the motor, is that the same old 2x2 conecter?
> i assume the battery box is on the bottom side of the train base, is this a
> correct assumption?
> is the base screwed together or glued?
>
> pictures?????
>
> thanks,
> ondrew
Hi Ondrew,
picture taking was not allowed and we have respected this limitation.
Release date will be in september (as planned so far)
I had less than 3 minutes to have a view on the system. I have not demounted the
motor from the base (no idea if possible at all). And I have no idea about the
wiring - sorry.
The battery compartment opens to the bottom. The batteries are arranged in a
kind of plastic triangle: 1 on top, 2 under that one and three in the bottom.
So they reach through the base plate to the part which is reaching out of the
baseplate.
Imagine a battery box as known from the "light and sound system" and place this
box on top of a 30 or 32 studs long train baseplate in the very center. Next
build the bottom of a Santa Fe super Chief engine and place this under the
baseplate: then you will get something with the shape of the new system. All of
this is a fixed system: you can not shorten the thing or remove the part from
the center to the front or rear...
The "battery pyramid" is a subpart of very lightweight plastic. You fill it with
the 6 batteries and put it into the engine from the bottom.
BTW: another info I have not mentioned: the engine has - as I would guess -
4...6 speeds. At top speed it derails (the train we have seen, has been only a
train base but Jan had placed a metroliner on top of it. Since the ML is 28 long
the thing looked quite odd....
Kind Regards,
Ben
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In lugnet.trains, Reinhard "Ben" Beneke wrote:
> Hi all!
>
> Jan Beyer has shown us parts of the new train System in Frechen/Germany.
>
> Just some unassortet aspects and informations.
>
> - The track is full plastic as already seen.
> - The train base is 32 studs long and contrains IR recievers on both sides and
> battery box (included and not removable).
> - the train motor has plastic wheels.
> - the wheels show spokes on their faxe sides and have technik axle holes.
> - the motor has special technic axle holes (nearly with cylindrical bore: so
> they have a "slip-under-overload-effect")
> - no new track radius is planned (so far) as Jan mentioned
> - the engine needs 6 pieces of small standard batteries => still a 9V system
> - the control panel (made for lefthanded kids as it seemed to us) has only 4
> knobs and a frequency switch.
> knob 1: signal horn (in panel)
> knob 2: stop
> knob 3: pos. accelleration (speed up or break rearwars drive)
> knob 4: negative. accelleration (break or speed up backwarts)
>
> The frequency switch allows to choose betweeen 3 frequencies or controls all 3
> frequencies at one time. I ask myself, what would happen if any of my three
> nephews wanted to own a second train....
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Ben
>
> P.s.: the new mindstorms system got presented as well (even photos were allowd).
> The mindstorms fans where really exited and positive against the system. I have
> no idea about the old mindstorms so I cannot tell anything about improovements
> now....
Thanks for the info Ben, This does not seem to fit with the train scene photo
because that shows metal wheels and a 30 stud long baseplate. The Baseplate
length has been counted by at least 3 AFOLs discussing on the Brickish
Association website.
I have mixed feelings about these new sets. This news gives the impression that
Lego will have to run two different systems if they are to continue to service
the rail-powered train fans....
Jon
Ps - I welcomed the horn feature until I re-read your post and realised it is
located in the controller handset - is this correct?
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> Ps - I welcomed the horn feature until I re-read your post and realised it is
> located in the controller handset - is this correct?
Hi,
yes, correct. The horn is inside the control unit you will hold in your hands,
not in the train itself!
Holger
my P.S. Hopefully there will be a wide varity of additional parts at S@H!
Different colors for baseplates, extra wheels, motors, cables ...
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In lugnet.trains, Jonathan Reynolds wrote:
> I have mixed feelings about these new sets. This news gives the impression that
> Lego will have to run two different systems if they are to continue to service
> the rail-powered train fans....
It doesn't sound as complicated as back in the 12V/4.5V times. At least both
the battery-powered and the rail-powered trains run on the same voltage.
> Ps - I welcomed the horn feature until I re-read your post and realised it is
> located in the controller handset - is this correct?
I would be cool with one or two extra outputs from the IR receiver for
controlling light and sound units. Maybe we'll get that with next the version.
Play well,
Jacob
--
LEGO furniture:
http://lego.jacob-sparre.dk/By/M%F8bler/
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In lugnet.trains, Jonathan Reynolds wrote:
Hi Jonathan!
[snip]
> Thanks for the info Ben, This does not seem to fit with the train scene photo
> because that shows metal wheels and a 30 stud long baseplate. The Baseplate
> length has been counted by at least 3 AFOLs discussing on the Brickish
> Association website.
Sorry my mistake: I read the plate woud be 32 studs at 1000steine, but in fact
it is 30 studs long.
> Ps - I welcomed the horn feature until I re-read your post and realised it is
> located in the controller handset - is this correct?
Yes correct as Holger has already mentioned.
Leg Godt!
Ben
P.s.: Rollingbricks and Heiner added some extra information on 1000steine.com
The train wheels will have rubber rings as known already from todays system
The train motor can be exchanged and replaced by the todays 9V motor. (So this
information includes the information, that the cable will remain the same.
With the (possibly prototype mold?) piece we have seen in Frechen, there was no
chance to add a second motor (no place for wiring).
The batteriesshould last for approx. 6 hours. You can shut the engine down
maually. If you forget to do so it shuts down after a while (time limit not
known so far).
So far it is not clear if the trains (or one of them?) will come with lights.
the poster shows just photoshopping.
Fright train will come with 4 waggons 30 pieces of trackl and will cost
(probably) 160 Eur.
Track might cost approx 50% (track sets will contain double amount of pieces for
similar prices like now).
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"Reinhard "Ben" Beneke" <ben@1000steine.SPAM-block.com> wrote in message
news:IsuFqK.21G6@lugnet.com...
[ ... snipped ... ]
>
> The train motor can be exchanged and replaced by the todays 9V motor. (So
> this
> information includes the information, that the cable will remain the same.
Maybe, maybe not. It is entirely possible LEGO will have a cable with the
new RJ jack on one end and the traditional 2x2 electrical plate on the other
end.
[ ... snipped ... ]
Mike
--
Mike Walsh - mike_walsh at mindspring.com
http://www.ncltc.cc - North Carolina LEGO Train Club
http://www.carolinatrainbuilders.com - Carolina Train Builders
http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=mpw - CTB/Brick Depot
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Six hours? Seems a rather horrid endurance to me, certainly in terms of
shows... But if the IR can be used with the metal motors, that oughta be fairly
interesting. Though no additional wires, soo.... Hm. I want to get my hands
on one of these things and see what they can do!
-Stefan-
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In lugnet.trains, Stefan Garcia wrote:
> Six hours? Seems a rather horrid endurance to me, certainly in terms of
> shows.
If you have an rail-powered train running constantly on each track and augment
the layout by manually running an IR train on each track as well, then a set of
batteries will easily get you through a day at most shows. Use rechargeable
batteries and you can power them up each night.
I'm looking forward to handing a controller to kids in the crowd and letting
them run the train for a while. Give them five minutes or until they cause a
crash!
But if you want to run them by themselves, yes. Six hours is pretty weak.
More importantly, didn't someone mention a timer? I bet they work like the
Duplo trains, where they turn off after a couple of minutes with no input. If
you want an unattended layout, you'll probably have to rig up a Mindstorms unit
somewhere on the layout to transmit a signal every time the train passes by.
Fortunately, the NXT RCX can run off an AC outlet. Unfortunately, this is a
very expensive workaround.
> Hm. I want to get my hands on one of these things and see what they can do!
Darn right!
--
Tony Hafner
www.hafhead.com
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In lugnet.trains, Tony Hafner wrote:
| |
Fortunately, the NXT RCX can run off an AC outlet.
|
Tony-
Huh? The Wired article specifically mentioned that the user group lobbied hard
for an external power port but did not get one.
-Ted
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I played with the NXT and spoke with the product manager at CES. There is NO AC
plug on the NXT, nor can it be powered via USB.
SteveB
In lugnet.trains, Ted Michon wrote:
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In lugnet.trains, Tony Hafner wrote:
| |
Fortunately, the NXT RCX can run off an AC outlet.
|
Tony-
Huh? The Wired article specifically mentioned that the user group lobbied
hard for an external power port but did not get one.
-Ted
|
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In lugnet.trains, Steven Barile wrote:
| |
I played with the NXT and spoke with the product manager at CES. There is NO
AC plug on the NXT, nor can it be powered via USB.
SteveB
|
Look here at picture NXT5.
http://www.vanree.net/fotoalbum/javanree/lego/frechen2006/MindstormsNXT/
You will see a power entry panel blank coming up from the battery compartment
cover plate. It seems possible that an alternate cover might actually contain
either a rechargeable battery pack, A/C power supply or both with access via a
receptacle accessible through this hole.
This is just a hopeful guess on my part!
JB
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In lugnet.trains, John Barnes wrote:
| |
In lugnet.trains, Steven Barile wrote:
| |
I played with the NXT and spoke with the product manager at CES. There is
NO AC plug on the NXT, nor can it be powered via USB.
|
Look here at picture NXT5.
http://www.vanree.net/fotoalbum/javanree/lego/frechen2006/MindstormsNXT/
You will see a power entry panel blank coming up from the battery
compartment cover plate. It seems possible that an alternate cover might
actually contain either a rechargeable battery pack, A/C power supply or
both with access via a receptacle accessible through this hole.
This is just a hopeful guess on my part!
|
From this press release:
http://www.lego.com/education/mindstorms/images/eng/downloads/EducationPress.pdf
Features of the new system include:
- New 32-bit NXT intelligent brick
- Rechargeable battery system with A/C plug
- and then a bunch of boring stuff about sensors, servos, Bluetooth, and such
I did notice that it didn’t mention anything about IR in that section, so I may
be wrong about that potential application for a completely different reason.
And if I’ve been reading other sources right, it actually can be used as line
power. I wouldn’t bet my first born on it or anything, though.
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"Steven Barile" <sebarile@sstanamera.com> wrote in message
news:It09u2.CGF@lugnet.com...
> I played with the NXT and spoke with the product manager at CES. There is
> NO AC
> plug on the NXT, nor can it be powered via USB.
[ ... snipped ...]
USB powered would have been a reasonable compromise, that is too bad.
Mike
--
Mike Walsh - mike_walsh at mindspring.com
http://www.ncltc.cc - North Carolina LEGO Train Club
http://www.carolinatrainbuilders.com - Carolina Train Builders
http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=mpw - CTB/Brick Depot
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In lugnet.trains, Mike Walsh wrote:
> USB powered would have been a reasonable compromise, that is too bad.
Yeah but it would have been an expensive option I think. There would have to be
a built in DC:DC converter to increase the USB 5 volt supply to the necessary
internal 9v. And that means the only about 200mA would have been available
internally as the 500mA USB max was approached. This may have managed one motor,
perhaps.
JB
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Tony Hafner wrote:
> Fortunately, the NXT RCX can run off an AC outlet. Unfortunately, this is
> a very expensive workaround.
Having seen a production unit (as well as sensors) I haven't been able to
discover any external power jack. I was allowed by Jan Beyer to make pics
and have posted them here :
http://www.vanree.net/fotoalbum/javanree/lego/frechen2006/Mindstorms_NXT/
--
Jan-Albert van Ree | http://www.vanree.net/brickpiles/
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In lugnet.trains, Reinhard "Ben" Beneke wrote:
> Hi all!
>
> Jan Beyer has shown us parts of the new train System in Frechen/Germany.
>
> Just some unassortet aspects and informations.
>
> - The track is full plastic as already seen.
> - The train base is 32 studs long and contrains IR recievers on both sides and
> battery box (included and not removable).
> - the train motor has plastic wheels.
> - the wheels show spokes on their faxe sides and have technik axle holes.
> - the motor has special technic axle holes (nearly with cylindrical bore: so
> they have a "slip-under-overload-effect")
> - no new track radius is planned (so far) as Jan mentioned
> - the engine needs 6 pieces of small standard batteries => still a 9V system
> - the control panel (made for lefthanded kids as it seemed to us) has only 4
> knobs and a frequency switch.
> knob 1: signal horn (in panel)
> knob 2: stop
> knob 3: pos. accelleration (speed up or break rearwars drive)
> knob 4: negative. accelleration (break or speed up backwarts)
>
> The frequency switch allows to choose betweeen 3 frequencies or controls all 3
> frequencies at one time. I ask myself, what would happen if any of my three
> nephews wanted to own a second train....
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Ben
>
> P.s.: the new mindstorms system got presented as well (even photos were allowd).
> The mindstorms fans where really exited and positive against the system. I have
> no idea about the old mindstorms so I cannot tell anything about improovements
> now....
Thanks for the information Ben. I have a question - did they have working
lights? Were the lights on normal 9V cables? If they could not be controlled
from the remote, how did they switch on and off?
Also, was the motor connected by a standard 9V cable with 2x2 plates?
Jason Railton
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In lugnet.trains, Jason J. Railton wrote:
> In lugnet.trains, Reinhard "Ben" Beneke wrote:
[snip]
Dear Jason,
as just written in a reply on Ondrews questions, I cannot tell the answers to
your questions. I missed these specific details. And we have seen not more than
a train base with a metroliner placed on top of it...
Regarding the lights, I am quite convinced they are just working with full power
whenever the train is running. Since there are no further knopbs on top of the
remote panel, I think the train will not do more than run forward + rearwards at
some different speeds.
Leg Godt!
Ben
> Thanks for the information Ben. I have a question - did they have working
> lights? Were the lights on normal 9V cables? If they could not be controlled
> from the remote, how did they switch on and off?
>
> Also, was the motor connected by a standard 9V cable with 2x2 plates?
>
> Jason Railton
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In lugnet.trains, Reinhard "Ben" Beneke wrote:
> Hi all!
>
> Jan Beyer has shown us parts of the new train System in Frechen/Germany.
>
> Just some unassortet aspects and informations.
>
> - The track is full plastic as already seen.
> - The train base is 32 studs long and contrains IR recievers on both sides and
> battery box (included and not removable).
> - the train motor has plastic wheels.
> - the wheels show spokes on their faxe sides and have technik axle holes.
> - the motor has special technic axle holes (nearly with cylindrical bore: so
> they have a "slip-under-overload-effect")
> - no new track radius is planned (so far) as Jan mentioned
> - the engine needs 6 pieces of small standard batteries => still a 9V system
> - the control panel (made for lefthanded kids as it seemed to us) has only 4
> knobs and a frequency switch.
> knob 1: signal horn (in panel)
> knob 2: stop
> knob 3: pos. accelleration (speed up or break rearwars drive)
> knob 4: negative. accelleration (break or speed up backwarts)
>
> The frequency switch allows to choose betweeen 3 frequencies or controls all 3
> frequencies at one time. I ask myself, what would happen if any of my three
> nephews wanted to own a second train....
Hi Ben.
Thanks for the write up. Sounds like the Manas style IR with serial data packets
being sent at diffferent rates simulating multi-channel on a single medium is
being used.
From your description, I am assuming that "little" locomotives like trolley cars
which just used to use a single motor as a base will no longer be an option with
the new system? This is a shame :(
JB
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Hi all!
I also saw the new train system during our show in Frechen/Germany last weekend.
I'd like to add some more information.
- The motor has the same size then the normal 9V train motor. The only
difference is the hole for the technic axle.
- The decorative side pieces for the motor are a slightly different. There is a
cut out for the technic axle.
- The battery/IR-unit is connected with a standard 9V cable to the motor. I
assume that you can connect a separate cable for train lights also to the
battery/IR-unit.
- The motor-wheels seems to have a little rubber to get friction to the trac.
As mentioned before going in highest speed the 2 waggon train derailed due to
too much speed. The running train was very silent, I only could hear the motor,
not the wheels on track.
From a kid's perspective is a highly playable system where more kids could share
running different (or same?) trains on one layout.
From AFOL's point of view I would say that the new 9V system can be seen as
addition to the existing system. On an old 9V layout you can run old and new 9V
trains without problems.
Possibilities to build trains seems to be limited in some ways. Eg. no small
engines, no engines with non-black baseplates like Santa Fe. But I have allready
some workarounds in mind: using the baseplate with battery/IR-unit for a waggon
(the motor can either be mounted under a separat engine moc or under the
waggon). Battery/IR-unit might be build in wider mocs then 6-wide. BBB wheels
might be connected directly to the new motor (hope that works).
Kind regards,
Holger
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In lugnet.trains, Holger Matthes wrote:
> Hi all!
>
> I also saw the new train system during our show in Frechen/Germany last weekend.
> I'd like to add some more information.
>
> - The motor has the same size then the normal 9V train motor. The only
> difference is the hole for the technic axle.
> - The decorative side pieces for the motor are a slightly different. There is a
> cut out for the technic axle.
That would explan the black dots on the side pieces noticed in
http://eurobricks.hosting.ipsyn.com/euroforum/uploads/post-9-1136399629.jpg (and
the black wheels) pity that they didn't they add another axlehole to allow for 6
wheels if wanted.
> - The battery/IR-unit is connected with a standard 9V cable to the motor. I
> assume that you can connect a separate cable for train lights also to the
> battery/IR-unit.
> SNIP
> BBB wheels might be connected directly to the new motor (hope that works).
Something that hadn't occured to me before, but yes, that would be cool.
Presumably as the system uses the standard electrical cables a technic motor
could be used to power BBB wheels too?
> Kind regards,
> Holger
Tim
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In lugnet.trains, Reinhard "Ben" Beneke wrote:
> Hi all!
>
> Jan Beyer has shown us parts of the new train System in Frechen/Germany.
>
> Just some unassortet aspects and informations.
>
> - The track is full plastic as already seen.
> - The train base is 32 studs long and contrains IR recievers on both sides and
> battery box (included and not removable).
> - the train motor has plastic wheels.
> - the wheels show spokes on their faxe sides and have technik axle holes.
> - the motor has special technic axle holes (nearly with cylindrical bore: so
> they have a "slip-under-overload-effect")
> - no new track radius is planned (so far) as Jan mentioned
> - the engine needs 6 pieces of small standard batteries => still a 9V system
> - the control panel (made for lefthanded kids as it seemed to us) has only 4
> knobs and a frequency switch.
> knob 1: signal horn (in panel)
> knob 2: stop
> knob 3: pos. accelleration (speed up or break rearwars drive)
> knob 4: negative. accelleration (break or speed up backwarts)
>
> The frequency switch allows to choose betweeen 3 frequencies or controls all 3
> frequencies at one time. I ask myself, what would happen if any of my three
> nephews wanted to own a second train....
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Ben
>
> P.s.: the new mindstorms system got presented as well (even photos were allowd).
> The mindstorms fans where really exited and positive against the system. I have
> no idea about the old mindstorms so I cannot tell anything about improovements
> now....
Forgive me if it has been covered before, but the primary question I'd like to
ask is whether TLC will continue to produce the old 9v track and 9v motors - and
then, if so, will new sets be released based on those old units?
Thanks,
Derek
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In lugnet.trains, Derek Lim wrote:
> Forgive me if it has been covered before, but the primary question I'd like to
> ask is whether TLC will continue to produce the old 9v track and 9v motors - and
> then, if so, will new sets be released based on those old units?
I feel compelled to ask; do you really mean "sets" or do you mean supplies of
track, switches, 9v train motors, wheel sets and buffer beams, and perhaps track
connecting wires and controllers?
JB
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In lugnet.trains, John Barnes wrote:
> In lugnet.trains, Derek Lim wrote:
>
> > Forgive me if it has been covered before, but the primary question I'd like to
> > ask is whether TLC will continue to produce the old 9v track and 9v motors - and
> > then, if so, will new sets be released based on those old units?
>
> I feel compelled to ask; do you really mean "sets" or do you mean supplies of
> track, switches, 9v train motors, wheel sets and buffer beams, and perhaps track
> connecting wires and controllers?
>
> JB
Both. I guess what I'm asking is whether the entire, current 9v train line will
be continued; produced alongside the new line of trains.
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|
In lugnet.trains, Derek Lim wrote:
> In lugnet.trains, John Barnes wrote:
> > In lugnet.trains, Derek Lim wrote:
> >
> > > Forgive me if it has been covered before, but the primary question I'd like to
> > > ask is whether TLC will continue to produce the old 9v track and 9v motors - and
> > > then, if so, will new sets be released based on those old units?
> >
> > I feel compelled to ask; do you really mean "sets" or do you mean supplies of
> > track, switches, 9v train motors, wheel sets and buffer beams, and perhaps track
> > connecting wires and controllers?
> >
> > JB
>
> Both. I guess what I'm asking is whether the entire, current 9v train line will
> be continued; produced alongside the new line of trains.
I think there is a difference between TLG carrying on making and supplying parts
for 9v trains and going to the trouble to design and release sets.
From my own perspective, keeping me supplied with 9v train parts is 1000 times
more important than making train sets. I don't buy train sets. But I do buy
motors, wheelsets and track so I can continue building and adding to my local
LTC layout. It is the LTC layout that goes to public train shows and finally has
a positive effect on "the brand". I enjoy going to train shows, "the brand"
benefits as a side effect and is not the main reason I go to shows. Let's hope
that small degree of spin-off benefit is enough to cause TLG to continue selling
me the parts I need!
JB
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In lugnet.trains, John Barnes wrote:
> In lugnet.trains, Derek Lim wrote:
>
> > Forgive me if it has been covered before, but the primary question I'd like to
> > ask is whether TLC will continue to produce the old 9v track and 9v motors - and
> > then, if so, will new sets be released based on those old units?
>
> I feel compelled to ask; do you really mean "sets" or do you mean supplies of
> track, switches, 9v train motors, wheel sets and buffer beams, and perhaps track
> connecting wires and controllers?
>
> JB
I suppose (and it would have made more sense to check your reply before adding
my other one - I'm splitting my own train of thought here) that the new IR base
length makes it harder for LEGO to produce a new engine that can sell on its own
(like the Super Chief) that doesn't contain an IR unit.
And it also makes a small engine impossible. This is for kids, right? Kids who
are supposed to grow up with Duplo Thomas?
Jason Railton
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In lugnet.trains, Jason J. Railton wrote:
>
> I suppose (and it would have made more sense to check your reply before adding
> my other one - I'm splitting my own train of thought here) that the new IR base
> length makes it harder for LEGO to produce a new engine that can sell on its own
> (like the Super Chief) that doesn't contain an IR unit.
>
> And it also makes a small engine impossible. This is for kids, right? Kids who
> are supposed to grow up with Duplo Thomas?
Agreed! I posted earlier that this 30 stud base totally wipes out all those cool
Thomas and little trolley models. (Which, incidently, are amongst the most
popular items we (LUCNY) run around the tracks at shows per visitor requests.)
Even the Hogwarts model will not be able to be replicated with the new system!
JB
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In lugnet.trains, John Barnes wrote:
> In lugnet.trains, Jason J. Railton wrote:
> >
> > I suppose (and it would have made more sense to check your reply before adding
> > my other one - I'm splitting my own train of thought here) that the new IR base
> > length makes it harder for LEGO to produce a new engine that can sell on its own
> > (like the Super Chief) that doesn't contain an IR unit.
> >
> > And it also makes a small engine impossible. This is for kids, right? Kids who
> > are supposed to grow up with Duplo Thomas?
>
>
> Agreed! I posted earlier that this 30 stud base totally wipes out all those cool
> Thomas and little trolley models. (Which, incidently, are amongst the most
> popular items we (LUCNY) run around the tracks at shows per visitor requests.)
> Even the Hogwarts model will not be able to be replicated with the new system!
>
> JB
Surely for a Thomas train, if you make the bogie versions, Annie or Clarabel
could use the IR unit baseplate?
http://www.pegnsean.net/~railwayseries/annieclarabel.htm Then Thomas could be
made using BBB wheels and he could have working rods too.
I think it will be possible to bury the new IR unit in an 8 or wider engine,
possibly to use it for remote controlled lights or auxiliary motors (crane
drive?), with electric wheeled 9V train motors driving.
The new 9V train motor can be used at the back of the train (with a wire to the
other train motors) to reduce drag on the curves, whilst still allowing an
electrical dead section of track (isolated with insulating tape between metal
rail joints) to be not much longer than the engine. This assumes a train at a
show that is not regularly rearranged of course.
If a new train set like the Santa Fe loco were created with a plain 30-stud long
base and spaces in the right places, it would be possible for it to be used with
either system. For the new system the fuel tank would be discarded. There
would still be the question of which motor frame parts to include though - ones
with holes for the new motor or studs for the existing one.
Mark
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In lugnet.trains, Mark Bellis wrote:
> Surely for a Thomas train, if you make the bogie versions, Annie or Clarabel
> could use the IR unit baseplate?
> http://www.pegnsean.net/~railwayseries/annieclarabel.htm Then Thomas could be
> made using BBB wheels and he could have working rods too.
Hear, hear, those four wheeled Annie and Clarabels are a travesty created by the
TV series ;-)
>
> I think it will be possible to bury the new IR unit in an 8 or wider engine,
> possibly to use it for remote controlled lights or auxiliary motors (crane
> drive?), with electric wheeled 9V train motors driving.
<SNIP>
There
> would still be the question of which motor frame parts to include though - ones
> with holes for the new motor or studs for the existing one.
I think the 'with holes' one, Its backward compatible even if it doesn't look as
good.
Tim
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In lugnet.trains, Tim David wrote:
> In lugnet.trains, Mark Bellis wrote:
>
> > Surely for a Thomas train, if you make the bogie versions, Annie or Clarabel
> > could use the IR unit baseplate?
> > http://www.pegnsean.net/~railwayseries/annieclarabel.htm Then Thomas could be
> > made using BBB wheels and he could have working rods too.
>
> Hear, hear, those four wheeled Annie and Clarabels are a travesty created by the
> TV series ;-)
Ok, I'm a bit confused. Annie and Clarabel are SUPPOSED to be longer, 4-axle
cars?
Russell
BayLTC
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In lugnet.trains, Russell Clark wrote:
> In lugnet.trains, Tim David wrote:
> > In lugnet.trains, Mark Bellis wrote:
> >
> > > Surely for a Thomas train, if you make the bogie versions, Annie or Clarabel
> > > could use the IR unit baseplate?
> > > http://www.pegnsean.net/~railwayseries/annieclarabel.htm Then Thomas could be
> > > made using BBB wheels and he could have working rods too.
> >
> > Hear, hear, those four wheeled Annie and Clarabels are a travesty created by the
> > TV series ;-)
>
> Ok, I'm a bit confused. Annie and Clarabel are SUPPOSED to be longer, 4-axle
> cars?
>
> Russell
> BayLTC
Yeah, in the original books by the Rev. W Audrey they pretty were much as in the
top picture in the link Mark included, with a composite (1st and 3rd class) and
a brake coach (for the Guard (Conducter in US speak)and luggage). When the first
TV series was produced they were changed to four wheelers for no apparent reason
(with no Guards accomodation, definatly against the regulations!) All susequent
appearances of Annie and Clarabel have followed this format.
A search on the web reveals a definate paucity of original Thomas imagary
Tim
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In lugnet.trains, Mark Bellis wrote:
> In lugnet.trains, John Barnes wrote:
> > In lugnet.trains, Jason J. Railton wrote:
> > >
> > > I suppose (and it would have made more sense to check your reply before adding
> > > my other one - I'm splitting my own train of thought here) that the new IR base
> > > length makes it harder for LEGO to produce a new engine that can sell on its own
> > > (like the Super Chief) that doesn't contain an IR unit.
> > >
> > > And it also makes a small engine impossible. This is for kids, right? Kids who
> > > are supposed to grow up with Duplo Thomas?
> >
> >
> > Agreed! I posted earlier that this 30 stud base totally wipes out all those cool
> > Thomas and little trolley models. (Which, incidently, are amongst the most
> > popular items we (LUCNY) run around the tracks at shows per visitor requests.)
> > Even the Hogwarts model will not be able to be replicated with the new system!
> >
> > JB
>
> Surely for a Thomas train, if you make the bogie versions, Annie or Clarabel
> could use the IR unit baseplate?
> http://www.pegnsean.net/~railwayseries/annieclarabel.htm Then Thomas could be
> made using BBB wheels and he could have working rods too.
>
> I think it will be possible to bury the new IR unit in an 8 or wider engine,
> possibly to use it for remote controlled lights or auxiliary motors (crane
> drive?), with electric wheeled 9V train motors driving.
30 studs would be very long for Annie and Clarabel - I was thinking of trying an
MOT 24-stud baseplate. After all, they must have some use (other than a
Palethorpe's Pork Sausage three-axle van of course).
Maybe you could get away with BBB wheels for Thomas at your scale, but I doubt
it would work 6-wide - it'd make the total wheelbase far too long for a start.
You couldn't overlap flanged and blind drivers when the axle spacing is fixed by
the motor.
Jason Railton
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In lugnet.trains, John Barnes wrote:
| |
In lugnet.trains, Jason J. Railton wrote:
| |
And it also makes a small engine impossible. This is for kids, right? Kids
who are supposed to grow up with Duplo Thomas?
|
Agreed! I posted earlier that this 30 stud base totally wipes out all those
cool Thomas and little trolley models. (Which, incidently, are amongst the
most popular items we (LUCNY) run around the tracks at shows per visitor
requests.) Even the Hogwarts model will not be able to be replicated with the
new system!
JB
|
When I was at Legoworld, I soon learned that if I wanted the kids to crowd
around I only had to run my green and red Percy with a small matching orange
wagon:
 
Chasing the Rocket and/or Penydarren around the same
track:
And if I wanted the screaming hordes to go away and leave me to enjoy my
precious bag of chilli rice crackers(i) in peace, I ran my best feature-packed
BR Class 50 with a train of authentic heavy hoppers:
 
...and they all vanished.
That’s five minutes of market research LEGO can have for nowt.
Jason Railton
i You try finding spicy food in the Netherlands. There isn’t even a word for
it!
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In lugnet.trains, Jason J. Railton wrote:
| |
When I was at Legoworld, I soon learned that if I wanted the kids to crowd
around I only had to run my green and red Percy with a small matching orange
wagon:
Chasing the Rocket and/or Penydarren around the same
track:
And if I wanted the screaming hordes to go away and leave me to enjoy my
precious bag of chilli rice crackers(i) in peace, I ran my best
feature-packed BR Class 50 with a train of authentic heavy hoppers:
...and they all vanished.
That’s five minutes of market research LEGO can have for nowt.
|
LOL That’s hilarious, but so true! Our Thomas at shows is a veritable
kid-magnet and the reason why we devote a special section of our layout to the
TtTE characters.
BTW, your proto MOCs are definitely awesome!
JOHN
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In lugnet.trains, Derek Lim wrote:
> Forgive me if it has been covered before, but the primary question I'd like to
> ask is whether TLC will continue to produce the old 9v track and 9v motors - and
> then, if so, will new sets be released based on those old units?
There's still no definite answer. LEGO might not be willing to commit
themselves. Think about it - if they said they'll supply 9V track forever, they
can't keep that promise. If they say they'll make it for 2 more years, there'll
be uproar that that's not long enough. What can they say? The only thing they
could say is that they'll make it whilst there's still a profit to be made from
it. How much are you going to be buying?
As for new units, I don't think there's any point asking for that as there's no
great need. For 9V you only need 5 units - straights, curves, points, motor and
regulator. Everything else (and all future train sets) are compatible - just
plug in your choice of motor.
I'm just disappointed there's no stand-alone version of the IR unit. Kids
absolutely love little 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 engines, and this setup rules them out.
Jason Railton
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| |
|
In lugnet.trains, Jason J. Railton wrote:
> In lugnet.trains, Derek Lim wrote:
> > Forgive me if it has been covered before, but the primary question I'd like to
> > ask is whether TLC will continue to produce the old 9v track and 9v motors - and
> > then, if so, will new sets be released based on those old units?
>
> There's still no definite answer. LEGO might not be willing to commit
> themselves. Think about it - if they said they'll supply 9V track forever, they
> can't keep that promise. If they say they'll make it for 2 more years, there'll
> be uproar that that's not long enough. What can they say? The only thing they
> could say is that they'll make it whilst there's still a profit to be made from
> it. How much are you going to be buying?
>
> As for new units, I don't think there's any point asking for that as there's no
> great need. For 9V you only need 5 units - straights, curves, points, motor and
> regulator. Everything else (and all future train sets) are compatible - just
> plug in your choice of motor.
>
> I'm just disappointed there's no stand-alone version of the IR unit. Kids
> absolutely love little 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 engines, and this setup rules them out.
>
>
> Jason Railton
I'm no expert on the manufacturing process but I'd like to know if they have
altered all the moulds for the track pieces and the clip-on motor frames. If
these are completely new moulds then it shows there is a future supply potential
for the 9v track-powered range. If not, we will have to rely on existing stocks
until they run out.
Although I welcome the new trains my gripe is similar to Jason's and I cannot
see why someone starting with the playtrains would be persueded to part with
serious £s to buy a new motor, regulator, metal track etc. in order to
'upgrade'. In this respect, it is more a one-way compatibility.
Jon
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| |
|
In lugnet.trains, Jonathan Reynolds wrote:
> In lugnet.trains, Jason J. Railton wrote:
> > In lugnet.trains, Derek Lim wrote:
> > > Forgive me if it has been covered before, but the primary question I'd like to
> > > ask is whether TLC will continue to produce the old 9v track and 9v motors - and
> > > then, if so, will new sets be released based on those old units?
> >
> > There's still no definite answer. LEGO might not be willing to commit
> > themselves. Think about it - if they said they'll supply 9V track forever, they
> > can't keep that promise. If they say they'll make it for 2 more years, there'll
> > be uproar that that's not long enough. What can they say? The only thing they
> > could say is that they'll make it whilst there's still a profit to be made from
> > it. How much are you going to be buying?
> >
> > As for new units, I don't think there's any point asking for that as there's no
> > great need. For 9V you only need 5 units - straights, curves, points, motor and
> > regulator. Everything else (and all future train sets) are compatible - just
> > plug in your choice of motor.
> >
> > I'm just disappointed there's no stand-alone version of the IR unit. Kids
> > absolutely love little 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 engines, and this setup rules them out.
> >
> >
> > Jason Railton
>
> I'm no expert on the manufacturing process but I'd like to know if they have
> altered all the moulds for the track pieces and the clip-on motor frames. If
> these are completely new moulds then it shows there is a future supply potential
> for the 9v track-powered range. If not, we will have to rely on existing stocks
> until they run out.
>
> Although I welcome the new trains my gripe is similar to Jason's and I cannot
> see why someone starting with the playtrains would be persueded to part with
> serious £s to buy a new motor, regulator, metal track etc. in order to
> 'upgrade'. In this respect, it is more a one-way compatibility.
>
> Jon
To play devil's advocate for a moment - how is the situation different from the
conversion from 4.5V to 12V? That needed conductor rails, points, crossing,
motor and transformer.
In cost terms, including average inflation of 3% for 16 years (prices up by
60%), the conductor rails 7854/7855 cost about two thirds the price of 9V metal
track 4515/4520, £4.83 per box as spares in 1990 compared to £11.99 now, though
the cost of conversion was reduced by re-use of the rails. A pair of
unmotorised switch points 7856 cost £18.56 then, 4531 costs 22.99 now. That's
cheaper by 29%! The transformer costs about the same now as then (£40), so it's
cheaper by 37%. A train motor cost £19-£20 then, £22.99 now, cheaper by 32%.
Therefore all the more expensive items are cheaper to upgrade and the basic
straights and curves were artificially cheaper as a benefit of the versatility
of the old track.
For those who develop a serious rail interest and have a significant quantity of
LEGO plastic track and train-related sets, the question is whether the
conversion would be more worthwhile than a move to conventional model railways.
The new motor could be re-used to boost power to a long train, but this
mitigation depends on how much train-related LEGO the child has.
Would a child converting to the hobby train miss the horn? At least that would
still work from the remote control :-)
Mark
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In lugnet.trains, Mark Bellis wrote:
> To play devil's advocate for a moment - how is the situation different from the
> conversion from 4.5V to 12V? That needed conductor rails, points, crossing,
> motor and transformer.
In the past 4.5V trains could have short baseplates with a 4 or 6 wheeled
motor only. The now IR trains can only have 8 wheels and only a 30 stud long
baseplate.
In the past even 12V trains could be converted to 4.5V. Now not all 9V trains
can be converted to IR trains, only those with a 30 stud baseplate.
Why would someone convert a 12V train back to 4.5V? During the upgrade from
4.5V to 12V many people still used the 4.5V trains mixed with 12V. Sometimes
mayby want to exchange motors to have an 4.5V train run on 12V and a 12V train
converted back to 4.5V. So both trains can be on the tracks.
Now this is not possible to convert evey 9V train back to IR.
Niels
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| |
|
In lugnet.trains, Niels Karsdorp wrote:
> In lugnet.trains, Mark Bellis wrote:
> > To play devil's advocate for a moment - how is the situation different from the
> > conversion from 4.5V to 12V? That needed conductor rails, points, crossing,
> > motor and transformer.
>
> In the past 4.5V trains could have short baseplates with a 4 or 6 wheeled
> motor only. The now IR trains can only have 8 wheels and only a 30 stud long
> baseplate.
> In the past even 12V trains could be converted to 4.5V. Now not all 9V trains
> can be converted to IR trains, only those with a 30 stud baseplate.
>
> Why would someone convert a 12V train back to 4.5V? During the upgrade from
> 4.5V to 12V many people still used the 4.5V trains mixed with 12V. Sometimes
> mayby want to exchange motors to have an 4.5V train run on 12V and a 12V train
> converted back to 4.5V. So both trains can be on the tracks.
> Now this is not possible to convert evey 9V train back to IR.
>
> Niels
Moving from 4.5v to 12v had 'added value' in providing better control, many new
features such as electric points, crossings etc. but more than anything else, it
was the new expanding range which provided the most promise. If there is no 'new
and exciting range' in the 9v rail-powered system, then there is no incentive to
shell out big sums of money to change over.
Jon.
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In lugnet.trains, Jonathan Reynolds wrote:
| |
I’m no expert on the manufacturing process but I’d like to know if they have
altered all the moulds for the track pieces and the clip-on motor frames. If
these are completely new moulds then it shows there is a future supply
potential for the 9v track-powered range. If not, we will have to rely on
existing stocks until they run out.
Although I welcome the new trains my gripe is similar to Jason’s and I cannot
see why someone starting with the playtrains would be persueded to part with
serious £s to buy a new motor, regulator, metal track etc. in order to
‘upgrade’. In this respect, it is more a one-way compatibility.
Jon
|
I did, I started out with 4.5v, and moved to 9v when it came out.
What I don’t understand is the decision to produce a $100+ set whith this new
technology, as a first kit. I thought the whole point was to produce a $50 set
to get into the “birthday gift” segment. Looking at the new sets, the ICE train
looks about right. I would think the green engine is a perfect stand alone item,
or combine it with a single frieght car. The crain rail truck should definitly
be packaged seperately. I’d like to own more then one of the green engine, but
not if I have to buy them in $100+ sets.
Mat
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.trains, Mathew Clayson wrote:
| |
In lugnet.trains, Jonathan Reynolds wrote:
| |
I’m no expert on the manufacturing process but I’d like to know if they have
altered all the moulds for the track pieces and the clip-on motor frames. If
these are completely new moulds then it shows there is a future supply
potential for the 9v track-powered range. If not, we will have to rely on
existing stocks until they run out.
Although I welcome the new trains my gripe is similar to Jason’s and I
cannot see why someone starting with the playtrains would be persueded to
part with serious £s to buy a new motor, regulator, metal track etc. in
order to ‘upgrade’. In this respect, it is more a one-way compatibility.
Jon
|
I did, I started out with 4.5v, and moved to 9v when it came out.
What I don’t understand is the decision to produce a $100+ set whith this new
technology, as a first kit. I thought the whole point was to produce a $50
set to get into the “birthday gift” segment. Looking at the new sets, the ICE
train looks about right. I would think the green engine is a perfect stand
alone item, or combine it with a single frieght car. The crain rail truck
should definitly be packaged seperately. I’d like to own more then one of the
green engine, but not if I have to buy them in $100+ sets.
Mat
|
But moving to 9v from 4.5v gave you significant advantages and was an upgrade
which added value. The new trains are already good - remote control, sound,
cheap track, reverse loop capabilities, cab control etc. so the change to 9v
rail powered trains is not a total improvement. I could list out the advantages
and disadvantges of each range but that’s not the point - why would a newbie
want to change to the ‘old’ system when all the new Lego releases were the new
system? Am I missing something here?
Jon
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| |
|
"Mathew Clayson" <mathew_impact1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Isw0Dr.1qw0@lugnet.com...
> In lugnet.trains, Jonathan Reynolds wrote:
[ ... snipped ... ]
> What I don't understand is the decision to produce a $100+ set whith this
> new
> technology, as a first kit. I thought the whole point was to produce a $50
> set
> to get into the "birthday gift" segment. Looking at the new sets, the ICE
> train
> looks about right. I would think the green engine is a perfect stand alone
> item,
> or combine it with a single frieght car. The crain rail truck should
> definitly
> be packaged seperately. I'd like to own more then one of the green engine,
> but
> not if I have to buy them in $100+ sets.
>
> Mat
I agree completely. LEGO could (should?) take a lesson from the Brio/Thomas
market. The reason it is successful is because you add to it incrementally
and at a low price point. Buying an engine, rolling stock, or other
accessory doesn't have to be a significant investment. TLG's continues to
package their trains as an all inclusive offering which is fine but it
limits their "add on" sales opportunities. Once a parent buys a train for
their child, they will are likely to buy additional cars to go with the
train but are very unlikely to buy another complete train set.
Mike
--
--
Mike Walsh - mike_walsh at mindspring.com
http://www.ncltc.cc - North Carolina LEGO Train Club
http://www.carolinatrainbuilders.com - Carolina Train Builders
http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=mpw - CTB/Brick Depot
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Mike Walsh posted a link on the ILTCO list which has a much cleaner image.
http://www.iltco.org/docs/TLC/Train_Calendar_Benelux_High.pdf
It appears that the dummy engine on the ICE train is 6 studs shorter then the
working engine. They used a lt grey curved slope to fill in a gap.
A small detail I hadn’t noticed on the greeen engine, a caution sticker that has
a ligtning bolt and “9v”. Funny.
Mat
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Hello
>
> I'm no expert on the manufacturing process but I'd like to know if they have
> altered all the moulds for the track pieces and the clip-on motor frames. If
> these are completely new moulds then it shows there is a future supply potential
> for the 9v track-powered range. If not, we will have to rely on existing stocks
> until they run out.
Jan Beyer said at the 1000steine-event, that they had to use new moulds for
every type of rails, for they want that the new and old ones to fit together.
They had to make the new ones a little bit higher, so there is no difference in
height becuase of the missing metal part
Volker
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