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So yeah, I'm posting in l.general...
Anyway, using my amazing powers of prognostication (1), I believe that we NA
fans o' LEGO are in for a few nasty surprises in the future with regards to our
relationship, as LUGs and organizations, with TLC.
I've heard various rumours and undercurrents that TLC may be looking at
overhauling their outreaches to fan-run events and even maybe revamping their
previous 'special' commitment to lugs (that I won't talk about 'cause, well,
whatever)
Anyway, having been around long enuf to see the proverbial sewage hit the fan
when 9v disappeared, the colour change, the discontinuation of certain lines
(and sometimes the start of otehr lines *cough* jack stone *cough*), I think I'm
on pretty safe ground that these 'rumoured' changes will cause as equal, or
probably moreso consternation from fans--'weeping and gnashing of teeth outside
the city walls', as it were...
Here's the thing--I really have to understand that there are as many types of
fans in our chosen hobby as there are fans. i.e. everyone has their ideas and
beliefs when it comes to being an adult fan of lego.
So I am just speaking from myself here. And I wanted to get *MY* idea out there
before the furor.
Straight up--TLC is a corporation. It's not *our* corporation, it's *A*
corporation. As such, even though we can speak our minds, they, as a
corporation, will do what they want as a corporation.
Can we be upset? They can't stop us.
Can we rally? why not?
Can we spew venon, shake our fists at the general direction of denmark? Sure,
if you so desire.
Boycott?? Sell your collection?? Knock yourself out.
Can we expect TLC to change their corporate decisions? No. And that's the rub
right there.
This is where I've always had a tough time reconciling 'the fan base' vs ' the
corporate direction'. Did I believe the colour change and the 9v
discontinuation was dumb? Sure. whatever. Did I expect them to reverse their
decisions? Absolutely not. It's *their* company, not mine.
I've heard from many ppl that because we do these shows, that we put on
displays, that we work at bringing the LEGO hobby into the mainstream (a la
comic/sci-fi/etc. conventions) that this makes TLC somehow beholden to us.
Do we, by doing our shows and presentations, increase the revenue of TLC? I
think so. There's probably metrics out there that back that up. I mean, at
every single show, kids and parents are inspired by our displays and one of the
main questions we always get at every single presentation, besides 'how many
pieces is that?', is 'where can we buy LEGO?' Seriously, it is.
So our shows must contribute to a positive bottom line for TLC.
However, that does not give us that entitlement to dictate decisions to the
company.
It really doesn't
We don't do our shows for the proverbial 'pat on the head' from TLC. I don't.
None of my friends do. We do shows because we're fans of LEGO, we love
displaying our builds, we love interacting with the public. There's a litany of
reasons for doing shows and presentations that have absolutely nothing to do
with the manufacturer of our product beyond the fact that they produced the
medium of choice for our shows. They made the bricks, we bought the bricks.
So ask yourselves this question--if TLC suddenly folded shop tomorrow and there
were no new LEGO sets ever produced, would you or your lug still do shows? Of
course you would. We all would. It'd be different to be sure--the secondary
market would explode, but we would still do shows. Most of us wouldn't jump
over to MB or BTR or Tyco or whatever... We'd still build with our LEGO bricks.
I know this to be true because at some of our shows there are meccano guys,
there are guys that have long discontinued toys and stuff that they love
presenting. They're still out there doing shows long after the manufacturer has
disappeared.
That right there is the key. I would still be a fan of LEGO even if the company
wasn't around. I'm a fan of the Commodore 64 and that company's been gone for
years...
Would it change? absolutely. Thankfully TLC is still here so we don't have to
worry about that bit.
So what I'm telling you in the final analysis is that, with whatever TLC comes
out with for us North American AFOL's, sure rant, sure rave, sure get it off
your chest. Don't do any of that to affect change on the company, though.
Don't expect them to change *just because* of our say-so. They don't owe us
because we don't own the company.
I'm a fan of the brick. Have always been, will always be. I've surrounded
myself with pretty much like minded individuals.
The good bit is that *if* TLC is getting out of directly supporting LUGS and
shows in NA (and again, I could be wrong), then these shows and LUGs truly are
ours to direct as we want. It's a consolation, to be sure. Having the support
of the company is nice, is a perk, is a showing from the company that they
appreciate our efforts, however, it's not necessary for us to be fans of the
brick.
I'm going to still put on shows, still attend other shows, still hang out with
AFOL's, still build... So really, what has changed? Is like the first
BrickFest from oh so long ago--Fan shows run by fans for the fans. Should have
always been that way, anyway.
As a final note, seriously, if you are in a LUG or attend shows just for the
'pat on the head' from TLC, if you can't pay full freight to buy a LEGO set that
you want, if you're doing shows just for the discounted other things, then
rethink why you're in this hobby. We're adults here. That's the A in AFOL.
I've hung out with ppl with all sorts of different interests and hobbies, and
this is the only hobby that I can think of that, for some, comes with the
expectation that the company owes them. Really, TLC doesn't.
Will I continue to support TLC? Well, I'll still buy the sets I want, I'll
still do shows, and I'll still build. None of that is predicated on TLC giving
me anything.
All this said, if TLC wants to support LUGs and shows, I'm good with that.
However, I'm not signing an NDA or changing how my show is run to conform with
whatever corporate policies they may have. It's *their* company, but it's *our*
show. If the corporate policy for support for my show falls in line with what's
going on at my show, then everything's good.
I've gone on long enuf. There were other points but I think I've said enuf.
Whatever happens, know that I appreciate all of you. I truly do. And if you
vehemently disagree with me on any of the above, that won't change my
appreciation.
Dave K
1. after all, I did let y'all know about a LEGO store at sherway before anyone
else believed it to be true ;)
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In lugnet.general, David Koudys wrote:
> So yeah, I'm posting in l.general...
Hi David,
just by chance I came across your loooong article and found it very interesting
to read, even if you mention North America and I live in Europe.
But maybe I can comment from the distance as a person being in the community of
LEGO fans for more than 15 years now. I myself have not been very active in
exhibitions, shows and Lugs over the past 5 years. Blay gave me a hard time.
Then the chareer took it's tribute....
So I have not heard anything from LEGO and no rumors about LEGO cutting costs or
support on LUG support (in whatever manner).
But I did never care for that in the first line. I have always appreciated
independency and valued this higher than a money worth support of LEGO (which I
in fact never received personally#). But what you call the "pat on the head" has
been in fact a nice extra in past shows. I loved the more symbolic recognition
more than money worth supports.
Lego being at a show to give inside information or first sneak views on future
sets. Designers speaking in front of an audience. At maximum support with some
goodies for a public lottery. This has been great. Today Lego uses YouTube to do
part of this (and in result it's not us AFOLs to be the first target). But from
cost and output that might the way to go for them?
I fully agree on your thinking: we are AFoLEGO - it is their hardware that we
use even if the company would not be around any longer.
For me it is even the more: they do not just offer a couple of bricks but a
mindset and ethics as well. They offer (still) very good quality (although this
has been even better in the mid-eighties). They take care for the enviroment.
The product is one of a few, which is really safe to kids (compare this with
typical china made trash). They actually DO care. They still offer jobs in our
more and more de-industrialzed First World. They still have a concept ("System")
behind their original and 8mm x ÂÂÂÂ8mm x
ÂÂÂÂ9.6mm grid. Even if clones do exist and are legal today: I
do not like clones.
And for me: I have been really upset about blay/gray desaster. For PF-trains I
realized the benefits this offers in play value at least at home. Running
multiple trains independently is a benefit for me. I run it still on metal track
an can now combine 9V plus battery AND 12V running on PF-battery. This mix is
the best train system I ever had. (And the PF-system is the best within this mix
and I feel confident to promote this against any public audience).
But even the better: in review of 15 years I see a lot of former dreams having
become true:
(1)
communication:
LEGO has been as open as the Mossad 15 years ago.
Today there is comunication on many levels.
(2)
sets:
There has been "Town Junior" and "Jack Stone".
Today we have Emerald Night, Maersk Train, Cafe-Corner-Modulars, Mindstorms,
Technic, Sculptures, Star Wars...
All of these are so advanced. They exceed the dreams I had 15 years ago by far.
(3)
company policies "against" AFOLs - that's in fact a professional view and not a
dream becoming true:
But there has been just nothing 15 years ago.
10 years ago we all have been very enthusiastic.
Maybe in the past years the many NDAs have become a concern (I signed NDAs on
10183 and Power-Function workshops - but I regard tham to be timed out since
long). And I heard that Lego does not want to see certain content (sex, violence
...) at shows (or shows of Lugs) that they support officially. Until today I
always saw this more as a theoretical set of laws to protect LEGO against abuse
of their well-reputated brand. They learned the lesson out of e.g. that old
KZ-theme sets many years ago.
So in the end it is up to each Lug of course: can you live with a level of
"censorship" that obliges you to be in-line with LEGO ethics - for me that is
(until now) no problem. If LEGO ever asks for more than that: We are free to do
our own thing, as you mention.
In fact I enjoy some decent sex+violence content in fan-displays - especially
when it is more in comedy/parody style. But LEGO does not want to appear in
newspapers in conection with such topics. So just hide it well enough or do your
very own show.
Maybe I completely missed your point of changes in collaboration LUGs vs. LEGO.
I would appreciate more specific information then....
Leg Godt
Ben
*******************
#) In fact I did received minor compensations for working on the 10183 project
group and in a PowerFunctions workshop.
And I had the chance for bulk-orders as part of 1000steine.
=> This never had an impact on my thoughts on LEGO as a company.
The main payment has been the chance to look behind the courtains and have
access to the Lego Vault in Billund. And this has changed my mindset positively.
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In lugnet.general, Reinhard "Ben" Beneke wrote:
> In lugnet.general, David Koudys wrote:
> > So yeah, I'm posting in l.general...
>
> Hi David,
>
> just by chance I came across your loooong article and found it very interesting
> to read, even if you mention North America and I live in Europe.
<snip>
>
> Leg Godt
>
> Ben
<snip>
Hey Ben!
No, I think you got my point pretty clearly, and your post is a good look at it
as well.
I love LEGO, hence I'm a fan for over 40+ years (no dark ages for me). I
appreciate the company that produces LEGO. Besides one run-in with the legal
department back in the '80's, my dealings with the LEGO company have been great.
I 'hung out' with Jake at BF 2004, and Kevin at BrickFete 2012, and other ppl
working for the company over the years and all meetings/discussions/etc have
been utterly fantastic. The LEGO company has supported my LUG over the years
with various 'whatevers' and they have been very good lately at bringing fans in
for various things--the NXT stuff, the ambassadors, the video game, etc.
Utterly fantastic outreach to the fan community. Love it.
But, and here's where I want to be perfectly clear, these outreaches were
determined by TLC. These were fantastic for the fan community, but, bottom
line, they were business decisions. Some can discuss the positive influences
these business decisions had on the community, and how that correlates with a
better financial bottom line--and I would agree--but that's not what my point
is.
My point is, as a fan, I didn't expect these outreaches (though, as stated,
great that they happened), and my appreciation for LEGO isn't diminished had
these outreaches not occurred. And my appreciation for LEGO won't be diminished
if some of these business outreaches are terminated by the company. It's their
company, it's their decision. What if they cancelled ambassadors tomorrow?
Would I care? Would it change my appreciation?? Nope. Not one bit.
As a fan, I have the right to yip about their decision making process. Heck, I
still am angry at FOX for cancelling Firefly and NBC for cnacelling Star Trek.
However, like NBC and FOX, TLC is not under any obligation to listen to me, no
matter how much direct or indirect support I have given them through the years.
Because this is the argument I've heard from some-'TLC owes us fans because of
what we've done for them through the years with our shows/displays/fandom/buying
lots of LEGO. They must listen to us!!!'
That's the part that so rubs me the wrong way. We, as fans, cannot dictate
TLC's company policy. We can ask, we can scream, we can shake our fists at the
general direction of TLC, but we can't change their corporate policy--Only they
can.
Moreover, if ppl are so pissed at the company because they, the fans, aren't
getting 'something' from TLC (beyond the provided medium of bricks). then my
belief is that these fans really have to start reassessing their fandom, and
really start considering the fine line between fan and obsession (and that's a
whole other arguement)
If someone wants to make the argument that 'hey, those in europe are getting
preferential treatment', that's a valid argument, but again, it's TLC's decision
to make. The only decision we, as fans, have after TLC's decisions is 'what do
we, as fans, do now?'. For myself, since my fandom is not based on what TLC is
doing for me, my appreciation will not stop. I will still do shows, I will
still buy sets, I will still post to LEGO Users Group NETwork. I will, as well,
still support the fans in the way I can, such as running shows and such, and
loving rtl dinners, try to attend more conventions per year, etc.
Speaking of shows/displays, this is where it gets interesting. As a
corporation, if a club is looking for TLC support, TLC should have the ability
to, well, impose restrictions. Hypothetically (not that this ever happened), if
someone shows up with a Nazi concentration camp that's done up like a line of
LEGO products, I would imagine TLC doesn't want it to look like they're
supporting or sponsoring this type of display, therefore this type of display
might not be declared fit for public consumption at that particular show.
If your show is autonomous from TLC, then these display decisions are left to
the organizers of the show, and NOT from an external company. I run shows.
Several, in fact. Myself, along with the LUGs in the area, put on fantastic
displays. We did it before LEGO started its outreach to the fan communities,
and we'll continue to do so if TLC stops ouytreach programs. I, and my firends,
have never been in this because of what we might get from TLC. We do it for the
love of the show--displaying and talking to the public, and just having a fun
time.
I love TLC. I've toured the factory in Stratford, Ontario (in the day) and it
was mecca. Seriously, I saw LEGO being made! That memory, after 20+ years, is
as clear to me today as anything else. To date, it really was a highlight of my
fandom--they invited me! (and this is pre-internet--the fact that they heard of
me and liked my stuff enuf to reach out to me...).
I love that, during my lifetime, TLC has grown and changed so that every stage
of my life they've offered very interesting sets/pieces/etc that 'clicked' into
where I was in my life (there's a LEGO analogy).
I love the friends I've made through the years because of my love of LEGO.
Again, seriously, there is no better group of ppl in any fandom than the ones I
met through my love of LEGO. They inspire me to do better, to be better. I'm
not happy right now that there are two 'competing' LUGs in Toronto that don't
seem to communicate very well with each other, but I'm probably part of the
problem there so I might have to look at doing something about it... but that's
another story.
I just get so pissed at ppl who are all like, 'the company isn't giving me what I need to continue my fandom!! I'm taking my ball and going home!!' To me, it's like, 'really?? Really?? that's what you're going with here???' That verges on obsession, and it's unhealthy. If you put all your proverbial eggs in TLC basket and something happens that you don't like, well, there goes the basket.
Bottom line--TLC will make corporate decisions that they believe are best for
them and their product. We, as fans, can have our say, but we can't have the
expectation that TLC will implement 'our say'. Beyond that, what's left to be
said ;)
Anyway, I've gone on long enuf (again!)
Dave K
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In lugnet.general, David Koudys wrote:
> In lugnet.general, Reinhard "Ben" Beneke wrote:
> > In lugnet.general, David Koudys wrote:
All speculation may end right here because we have the words straight from Kevin
in my inbox... this has been cut from a very long letter explaining why and what
will continue and what will not continue...
"THE FOLLOWING ITEMS ARE NO LONGER BEING OFFERED AS SUPPORT:
1.The LEGO Company Booth will be decommissioned and no longer available at LEGO
fan conventions.
2. A local community representative will no longer be available on-site for the
entire duration of the event (A local community representative will make
arrangements to physically attend fan conventions for a maximum of two full
days).
3. LEGO Brand Retail will no longer offer a discount, or any type of special
promotion or offer, to registered attendees/exhibitors of fan events.
4. LEGO Brand Retail will no longer offer any type of early discount or
promotion for event coordinator(s) before the event takes place (for event
supplies I.E. speed build sets, raffle prizes)."
So, if you have only attended events only for freebies, promotions and discounts
I believe you will no longer feel need to continue.
I do think that it was wonderful that a company like LEGO did allow us discounts
which in turned made our ability to promote their product a bit financially
easier, and am saddened by this decision, particularly with their sky-rocketing
sales over the last few years.
However, I am confident that the number of fans I call friends will continue
just as we did way before LEGO even knew we existed (or at least admitted we
did.) Those that have participated in obb functions displayed for the chance to
share their love of building or collecting, the ability to learn from peers, the
chance to hang out with new and old friends & mentors. For the love of the
hobby, but not necessarily the company itself.
So yes Virgina, this includes Brickfete. As we originally intended and always,
it is a festival run by the fans, made by the fans, for the fans. In light of
all this news, we will still continue bigger and better than ever. Yes, we will
still have raffles, contests, prizes and games but as of now, we will not be
able to offer the BRAND store discounts.
Never fear though, we still have a few tricks up our sleeves for our attendees,
so see y'all in July 2013.
Janey Red Brick
www.brickfete.com
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In lugnet.general, Janey C. L. Gunning wrote:
| |
so see y’all in July 2013.
Janey Red Brick
www.brickfete.com
|
JOHN
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In lugnet.general, Janey C. L. Gunning wrote:
> In lugnet.general, David Koudys wrote:
> > In lugnet.general, Reinhard "Ben" Beneke wrote:
> > > In lugnet.general, David Koudys wrote:
>
> All speculation may end right here because we have the words straight from Kevin
> in my inbox... this has been cut from a very long letter explaining why and what
> will continue and what will not continue...
>
> "THE FOLLOWING ITEMS ARE NO LONGER BEING OFFERED AS SUPPORT:
>
> 1.The LEGO Company Booth will be decommissioned and no longer available at LEGO
> fan conventions.
> 2. A local community representative will no longer be available on-site for the
> entire duration of the event (A local community representative will make
> arrangements to physically attend fan conventions for a maximum of two full
> days).
Well then, he or she will miss all the fun!
> 3. LEGO Brand Retail will no longer offer a discount, or any type of special
> promotion or offer, to registered attendees/exhibitors of fan events.
> 4. LEGO Brand Retail will no longer offer any type of early discount or
> promotion for event coordinator(s) before the event takes place (for event
> supplies I.E. speed build sets, raffle prizes)."
>
>
That. Blows for the organizers
> So, if you have only attended events only for freebies, promotions and discounts
> I believe you will no longer feel need to continue.
I've seen fans go out the door with skids piled high at least now there's no
incentive to do store runs. Go if you want. Might be better in the long run
>
> I do think that it was wonderful that a company like LEGO did allow us discounts
> which in turned made our ability to promote their product a bit financially
> easier, and am saddened by this decision, particularly with their sky-rocketing
> sales over the last few years.
Wholly agreed. We did, and still do, contribute to their financial bottom line
>
> However, I am confident that the number of fans I call friends will continue
> just as we did way before LEGO even knew we existed (or at least admitted we
> did.) Those that have participated in obb functions displayed for the chance to
> share their love of building or collecting, the ability to learn from peers, the
> chance to hang out with new and old friends & mentors. For the love of the
> hobby, but not necessarily the company itself.
Yep. I'm not happy bout this and, in my opinion, does reflect badly on the
company. But my appreciation for the brick but more importantly the fansof the
brick is not diminished in the slightest
> So yes Virgina, this includes Brickfete. As we originally intended and always,
> it is a festival run by the fans, made by the fans, for the fans.
Yipee!!!!!
> In light of
> all this news, we will still continue bigger and better than ever. Yes, we will
> still have raffles, contests, prizes and games but as of now, we will not be
> able to offer the BRAND store discounts.
And I'll always be there
> Never fear though, we still have a few tricks up our sleeves for our attendees,
> so see y'all in July 2013.
>
> Janey Red Brick
> www.brickfete.com
Dave K
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In lugnet.general, David Koudys wrote:
<snip>
I do want to be prefectly clear regarding my comments--I have no issue with
discussion. Actually, I actively encourage it! One only had to go to the
archives of off-topic.debate right here on LUGNET to know that i love
discussion!
If people have an issue with anything, especially as it relates to how or what
TLC does, then there are open forums, and meetings, and so many ways to present
and debate your views.
My issue, and it's a very fine distinction, is the assertion, "TLC didn't do
what I wanted (isn't listening to me/produced that ludicrously bad set/isn't
patting me on the head/etc.), therefore I'm done with the hobby!"
This begs the question, "Why are you in this hobby in the first place?" I mean,
I can't think of a single instance from anyone I know that is active in the LEGO
hobby that started under the premise, "I'm here because of what TLC does for
me!"
I think most of us, if not all of us, are here because of our enjoyment of
building/creating with LEGO bricks. Yes the company produces these bricks, but
again, would your enjoyment go away if TLC stopped producing bricks tomorrow??
If so, why?
For me, I'm joyous that TLC is around to produce new stuff for us to enjoy. I
speak to the company through my pocketbook--I don't buy sets I dislike and buy
the sets I do like.
I'm also very happy that TLC decided to give a run at the AFOL community, wit
the various outreaches over the past, what, 10 years? I'm not sure as to the
actual number of years or even when we can say it began (mainstream that is),
but they put in the effort! Kudos!!
I'm not happy they stopped the production of 9v. Really I'm not. I'm not keen
on the bley, either. But, really, did these decisions affect my appreciation of
building/creating with the bricks I have?? No. Did I yip?? Probably, but, in
the end, it wan't my decision to make, and I have no direct say in their
corporate policies.
So what am I to do when TLC does something I don't like? Quit the hobby?? Not likely. Have lively discussions regarding these issues with friends?? Absolutely!! (and yes, maybe even shake my fist at the general direction of Denmark!!! :) )
So here's a question, what would it take for you to quit the hobby?
I've been around AFOL's for a very long time. This hobby means something
different to many of us, but the one thing we should be able to get together on
is that we actually appreciate the hobby, or why be here at all?
i love the hobby (for many reasons as detailed elsewhere). I appreciate the
company that produces bricks I use for my hobby. I really do. I try not to be
all 'they're all that and a bag of cheet-o's', but on the flip side, I'm not all
'they suck dead bears!!!!' every time they do something i don't like.
Discuss! Yip!! Scream if needed!!! This decision really does suck for the
North American AFOL. It really does. And there are numerous reasons for
that--now some LUGs are 'more equal' than others, depending on which side of the
pond you're on.
So really, this is worthy of discussion/rallying/letter writing campaigns. Write to your ambassadors! Write to the head office!! Do it if you are so moved!! talk amongst your LUG! Maybe we can get toether and come up with something! I'm in full support of these things, and actively encourage them! However, if TLC doesn't take 'our advice' and change, what then? this is the troubling point of contention.
ANyway, again, a bunch of paragraphs too long. I really need a good copy
editor.
Dave K
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In lugnet.general, David Koudys wrote:
> In lugnet.general, David Koudys wrote:
<snip> <snip> <snip> <snip> <snip> and <snip>
> ANyway, again, a bunch of paragraphs too long. I really need a good copy
> editor.
Hi Dave,
just wanted to report back, that I enjoyed this very unemotional look on Lego
and the fan-ship-being (at least you tried to keep emotions out).
So Lego wants to cut down costs. One could argue LUGs are too successful: Lego
sees no further need to support this.
And in fact, personally I am at a point where I will buy LEGO and play with the
bricks even without a community around. Back to the roots. :-)
But I still enjoy this old platform, that used to be known as the friendliest
place on earth (and for me it still might be).
Ben
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In lugnet.general, Reinhard "Ben" Beneke wrote:
> In lugnet.general, David Koudys wrote:
> > In lugnet.general, David Koudys wrote:
>
> <snip> <snip> <snip> <snip> <snip> and <snip>
>
> > ANyway, again, a bunch of paragraphs too long. I really need a good copy
> > editor.
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> just wanted to report back, that I enjoyed this very unemotional look on Lego
> and the fan-ship-being (at least you tried to keep emotions out).
>
> So Lego wants to cut down costs. One could argue LUGs are too successful: Lego
> sees no further need to support this.
Actually, that's a good way of looking at it. LUGs are successful. All the
LUGs I know are doing their thing and (most of) they are having an awesome time
doing so!
So there's that.
>
> And in fact, personally I am at a point where I will buy LEGO and play with the
> bricks even without a community around. Back to the roots. :-)
Same!
> But I still enjoy this old platform, that used to be known as the friendliest
> place on earth (and for me it still might be).
I still can't think of any better SINGLE point of contact for the community.
The widely fractured community with an almost infinite number of
boards/groups/pages are, in and of themselves, fantastic, but there's no ONE
place to go to get things out there to the lego community. LUGNET, in the day,
was the single best place for that, and I'll still use it for same.
>
> Ben
Dave K
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In lugnet.general, David Koudys wrote:
> In lugnet.general, Reinhard "Ben" Beneke wrote:
> > In lugnet.general, David Koudys wrote:
> > > In lugnet.general, David Koudys wrote:
> I still can't think of any better SINGLE point of contact for the community.
> The widely fractured community with an almost infinite number of
> boards/groups/pages are, in and of themselves, fantastic, but there's no ONE
> place to go to get things out there to the lego community.
Hi Dave,
I agree on your thoughts....
Only some weeks ago I have been reminded, that becoming a LUGNET member ment
paying a (small) lifetime membership fee (really had fogotten that fact
completely).
This has been definitely one reason why we never saw many dumb kids popping up
here.
When I first typed LEGO into an early meta crawler search engine (before
lego.com has been existing), there has been the Pause database as best recource
in the web. And people using the internet have been scientists or university
students or other people with high social or educational level.
This may sound very arrogant, but I guess I made the most interesting contacts
in those early days. Today there are so many (noisy + partly stupid) kids and
other dumb people around, that I am often enough happy when they make up their
own communities to stay among themselves.
Of course we has a lot strange and strong characters around here as well. Lots
of us had strong egos (I myself as well). But I loved this and miss it
sometimes....
Leg Godt!
Ben
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In lugnet.general, Reinhard "Ben" Beneke wrote:
> This may sound very arrogant, but I guess I made the most interesting contacts
> in those early days. Today there are so many (noisy + partly stupid) kids and
> other dumb people around, that I am often enough happy when they make up their
> own communities to stay among themselves.
Hey you kids!!!! GET OFFA MY LAWN!
(ok, only kidding)
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In lugnet.general, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> In lugnet.general, Reinhard "Ben" Beneke wrote:
>
> > This may sound very arrogant, but I guess I made the most interesting contacts
> > in those early days. Today there are so many (noisy + partly stupid) kids and
> > other dumb people around, that I am often enough happy when they make up their
> > own communities to stay among themselves.
>
> Hey you kids!!!! GET OFFA MY LAWN!
>
> (ok, only kidding)
You old timer!!
Dave K
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In lugnet.general, Reinhard "Ben" Beneke wrote:
<snip>
>
> Of course we has a lot strange and strong characters around here as well. Lots
> of us had strong egos (I myself as well). But I loved this and miss it
> sometimes....
>
> Leg Godt!
>
> Ben
What? strong characters here on LUGNET?? :)
I think if we post more, others will post more... I don't think it'll ever reach
what it was. but I also think this is still the best place for a central source
of posting for everyone.
All the other boards are very 'niche' oriented. Yes, most of them have a 'general discusison' gourp, but still, I don't like visiting 10+ different AFOL forums to get a handle on what's going on.
So I'm here, at least, until the lights go off.
Dave K
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In lugnet.general, David Koudys wrote:
> All the other boards are very 'niche' oriented.
Well, for that LDraw.org has always been a niche - even here at LUGNET.
Eventually we had to leave last year to get some fresh blood. The barrier to get
posting privileges here had become so increasingly hight that ultimately there
remained just a handful of nerds talking to each other.
w.
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In lugnet.general, Willy Tschager wrote:
> In lugnet.general, David Koudys wrote:
> > All the other boards are very 'niche' oriented.
>
> Well, for that LDraw.org has always been a niche - even here at LUGNET.
> Eventually we had to leave last year to get some fresh blood. The barrier to get
> posting privileges here had become so increasingly hight that ultimately there
> remained just a handful of nerds talking to each other.
>
> w.
On that I agree. If I were to make a polite suggestion for LUGNET, it would be
to get the user activation/posting thing resolved. I mean, for us old-timers,
this is nothing. However, for all the new 'script/php kiddies', LUGNET is
terribly archaic and hard to use.
That is the one thing I would overhaul asap. (1)
Dave K
1- having said that, I have no idea what hte procedure is now to set up
accounts, or to gain posting privileges, having not had issues posting like
forever...
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In lugnet.general, David Koudys wrote:
> In lugnet.general, Willy Tschager wrote:
> > In lugnet.general, David Koudys wrote:
> > > All the other boards are very 'niche' oriented.
>
> 1- having said that, I have no idea what hte procedure is now to set up
> accounts, or to gain posting privileges[..]
Same for me, Dave.
And it might end terribly, in case that I ever have to get a new PC.
I am permanently logged in and this System is now 5 years old again. On none of
my other machines I have full Lugnet access. If I ever suffered a HD-crash, I
may be "out" (unless I find my long-forgotten login data on some very old
backups).
Best Regards,
Ben
P.s.: I still use the Lugnet set list to control my purchases etc. But I realize
that Brickset is often much more up to date.
I have no idea who is responsible to create new set entries. But it would be
nice if this would be given free to (us regular) users.
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In lugnet.general, Reinhard "Ben" Beneke wrote:
> P.s.: I still use the Lugnet set list to control my purchases etc. But I realize
> that Brickset is often much more up to date.
> I have no idea who is responsible to create new set entries. But it would be
> nice if this would be given free to (us regular) users.
That's not a terrible idea. Open up the database area to input from all
members.
Although I have some concerns that the existing input methods may not be
terribly user-friendly.
Steve
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In lugnet.general, Reinhard "Ben" Beneke wrote:
> In lugnet.general, David Koudys wrote:
> > In lugnet.general, Willy Tschager wrote:
> > > In lugnet.general, David Koudys wrote:
> > > > All the other boards are very 'niche' oriented.
>
> >
> > 1- having said that, I have no idea what hte procedure is now to set up
> > accounts, or to gain posting privileges[..]
>
> Same for me, Dave.
>
> And it might end terribly, in case that I ever have to get a new PC.
> I am permanently logged in and this System is now 5 years old again. On none of
> my other machines I have full Lugnet access. If I ever suffered a HD-crash, I
> may be "out" (unless I find my long-forgotten login data on some very old
> backups).
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Ben
>
> P.s.: I still use the Lugnet set list to control my purchases etc. But I realize
> that Brickset is often much more up to date.
> I have no idea who is responsible to create new set entries. But it would be
> nice if this would be given free to (us regular) users.
The good bit, at least for me, is I remember my LUGNET member ID and my
password, so there's that. If I forgot one of those two things (and that's not
beyond the point of happening), then I'm SOL
So yeah, this 'happiest place on teh internet' may need a little overhauling...
Dave K
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In lugnet.general, David Koudys wrote:
> In lugnet.general, Willy Tschager wrote:
> > In lugnet.general, David Koudys wrote:
> On that I agree. If I were to make a polite suggestion for LUGNET, it would be
> to get the user activation/posting thing resolved. I mean, for us old-timers,
> this is nothing. However, for all the new 'script/php kiddies', LUGNET is
> terribly archaic and hard to use.
> 1- having said that, I have no idea what hte procedure is now to set up
> accounts, or to gain posting privileges, having not had issues posting like
> forever...
Totally Agree!!!! Like Ben, I am in fear of what will happen when I switch
computers next, and it's coming soon. I know my password but just getting set up
scares me.
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In lugnet.general, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> In lugnet.general, David Koudys wrote:
> > In lugnet.general, Willy Tschager wrote:
> > > In lugnet.general, David Koudys wrote:
>
> > On that I agree. If I were to make a polite suggestion for LUGNET, it would be
> > to get the user activation/posting thing resolved. I mean, for us old-timers,
> > this is nothing. However, for all the new 'script/php kiddies', LUGNET is
> > terribly archaic and hard to use.
>
> > 1- having said that, I have no idea what hte procedure is now to set up
> > accounts, or to gain posting privileges, having not had issues posting like
> > forever...
>
> Totally Agree!!!! Like Ben, I am in fear of what will happen when I switch
> computers next, and it's coming soon. I know my password but just getting set up
> scares me.
I recently got a new computer. All I had to do was click the login key, put in
my credentials, and click the "now never forget about it" option. Easy peasy.
But I happen to remember my password...
Steve
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In lugnet.general, Steve Bliss wrote:
> In lugnet.general, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> > In lugnet.general, David Koudys wrote:
> > Totally Agree!!!! Like Ben, I am in fear of what will happen when I switch
> > computers next, and it's coming soon. I know my password but just getting set up
> > scares me.
>
> I recently got a new computer. All I had to do was click the login key, put in
> my credentials, and click the "now never forget about it" option. Easy peasy.
>
> But I happen to remember my password...
I will never forget mine, actually. But I still am fearful of getting set up to
post (without confirmation) correctly
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In lugnet.general, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> In lugnet.general, David Koudys wrote:
> > In lugnet.general, Willy Tschager wrote:
> > > In lugnet.general, David Koudys wrote:
>
> > On that I agree. If I were to make a polite suggestion for LUGNET, it would be
> > to get the user activation/posting thing resolved. I mean, for us old-timers,
> > this is nothing. However, for all the new 'script/php kiddies', LUGNET is
> > terribly archaic and hard to use.
>
> > 1- having said that, I have no idea what hte procedure is now to set up
> > accounts, or to gain posting privileges, having not had issues posting like
> > forever...
>
> Totally Agree!!!! Like Ben, I am in fear of what will happen when I switch
> computers next, and it's coming soon. I know my password but just getting set up
> scares me.
I think many of us are not going to be happy when migrating to a new system :(
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On 12-12-18 01:32 PM, David Koudys wrote:
> I think many of us are not going to be happy when migrating to a new system :(
I for one am glad this conversation came up - I want to get a new system just after
Christmas (I want one of the quiet ones).
After a lot of searching I hadn't found my PW before lunch. But, I did just now.
Whew! Thinking about it now, I expect if I just copy enough files over, I won't
need it.
-Chris Gray (NALUG)
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In lugnet.general, Chris Gray wrote:
> On 12-12-18 01:32 PM, David Koudys wrote:
>
> > I think many of us are not going to be happy when migrating to a new system :(
>
> I for one am glad this conversation came up - I want to get a new system just after
> Christmas (I want one of the quiet ones).
>
> After a lot of searching I hadn't found my PW before lunch. But, I did just now.
> Whew! Thinking about it now, I expect if I just copy enough files over, I won't
> need it.
If you use Firefox and it autosaves your LUGNet PW for you (as mine does) you
can see it in your list of saved passwords. Use FEBE or something similar to
back up your personal FF data and restore on the new system and all your saved
PWs will still work. IIRC anyway.
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In lugnet.general, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> In lugnet.general, Chris Gray wrote:
> > On 12-12-18 01:32 PM, David Koudys wrote:
> >
> > > I think many of us are not going to be happy when migrating to a new system :(
> >
> > I for one am glad this conversation came up - I want to get a new system just after
> > Christmas (I want one of the quiet ones).
> >
> > After a lot of searching I hadn't found my PW before lunch. But, I did just now.
> > Whew! Thinking about it now, I expect if I just copy enough files over, I won't
> > need it.
>
> If you use Firefox and it autosaves your LUGNet PW for you (as mine does) you
> can see it in your list of saved passwords. Use FEBE or something similar to
> back up your personal FF data and restore on the new system and all your saved
> PWs will still work. IIRC anyway.
So in conclusion with a tragically flawed system not allowing new prospective
members to join and all the older members eventually forgetting their passwords
and not being able to reset them it seems LUGNET is destined to whither away and
die. It really sad. I can remember how absolutely amazing this place was when I
first found it 12 years ago. Wow! Has it really been that long?
Cale
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In lugnet.general, Cale Leiphart wrote:
> In lugnet.general, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> > In lugnet.general, Chris Gray wrote:
> > > On 12-12-18 01:32 PM, David Koudys wrote:
> > >
> > > > I think many of us are not going to be happy when migrating to a new system :(
> > >
> > > I for one am glad this conversation came up - I want to get a new system just after
> > > Christmas (I want one of the quiet ones).
> > >
> > > After a lot of searching I hadn't found my PW before lunch. But, I did just now.
> > > Whew! Thinking about it now, I expect if I just copy enough files over, I won't
> > > need it.
> >
> > If you use Firefox and it autosaves your LUGNet PW for you (as mine does) you
> > can see it in your list of saved passwords. Use FEBE or something similar to
> > back up your personal FF data and restore on the new system and all your saved
> > PWs will still work. IIRC anyway.
>
> So in conclusion with a tragically flawed system not allowing new prospective
> members to join and all the older members eventually forgetting their passwords
> and not being able to reset them it seems LUGNET is destined to whither away and
> die. It really sad. I can remember how absolutely amazing this place was when I
> first found it 12 years ago. Wow! Has it really been that long?
>
> Cale
Yep. Many points for improvement (admins are presumably working on it), but I
know of no direct replacement out there. I've been to most of the major LEGO
discussion groups out there and none of them have the same
functionality/versatility and readability as LUGNET. The original programmer of
this site really knew how to parse loads of data into very readable and easily
followable chunks.
I still have this as my default web page for LUGNET--
http://news.lugnet.com/?n=*,-100&v=c
which means I see all the latest posts in all threads (mostly just lugnet
automatic updates now 'cause I don't use any filters, either). But then I can
go into my groups, or space or whatever and just read those... In any PHPBB or
whatever, I have to go into each category and catch up.
Moreover, there as no other single website that encompasses all aspects of the
hobby and the AFOL. Now all these other sites are 'niche'. I get that--I mean
if you're a star wars fan, why do you want to hear about robots and such...
However, a single point of contact for fans of all genres and all aspects of
this hobby is non-existant now, really.
And that kinda blows.
Dave K
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David Koudys wrote:
> I know of no direct replacement out there.
Neither do I, but for example the discussion groups at Embarcadero (current
owners of the former Borland Delphi programming tool) are AFAIK using a
standard product, and are usable both on the web and via nntp.
http://edn.embarcadero.com/delphi
> which means I see all the latest posts in all threads (mostly just
> lugnet automatic updates now 'cause I don't use any filters, either).
> But then I can go into my groups, or space or whatever and just read
> those... In any PHPBB or whatever, I have to go into each category
> and catch up.
Most every web based board have a page for 'Unread posts' and 'Unread
responses to me' nowadays, but you need to be logged in, of course.
www.eurobricks.com/forum/ is just one example, www.swebrick.se is another.
> Moreover, there as no other single website that encompasses all
> aspects of the hobby and the AFOL.
> Now all these other sites are
> 'niche'. I get that--I mean if you're a star wars fan, why do you
> want to hear about robots and such...
>
> However, a single point of contact for fans of all genres and all
> aspects of this hobby is non-existant now, really.
I'd say neither Eurobricks nor swebrick are 'niche', as far as the content
is concerned. swebrick is definitely niche with respect to language...
A Merry Lego Christmas from Sweden!
--
Anders Isaksson
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In lugnet.general, Cale Leiphart wrote:
>
> So in conclusion with a tragically flawed system not allowing new prospective
> members to join and all the older members eventually forgetting their passwords
> and not being able to reset them it seems LUGNET is destined to whither away and
> die. It really sad. I can remember how absolutely amazing this place was when I
> first found it 12 years ago. Wow! Has it really been that long?
"Wither" I think?
Whither LUGNet??? Oh, it withered.
But ya, it's been a very long time... we were all younger then.
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In lugnet.general, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> In lugnet.general, Cale Leiphart wrote:
>
> >
> > So in conclusion with a tragically flawed system not allowing new prospective
> > members to join and all the older members eventually forgetting their passwords
> > and not being able to reset them it seems LUGNET is destined to whither away and
> > die. It really sad. I can remember how absolutely amazing this place was when I
> > first found it 12 years ago. Wow! Has it really been that long?
>
> "Wither" I think?
>
> Whither LUGNet??? Oh, it withered.
Withered, but not dead yet! (not if we have anything to say about it!!)
I'm feeling better--think i'll go for a walk!!
>
> But ya, it's been a very long time... we were all younger then.
Whither--every time I see that word it reminds me of one thing--the final
chapter of 'Making of Star Trek'--published b/w the 2nd and third season of TOS.
And if you ever want a very detailed look at how that show was originally made,
and access to Gene's thoughts and stuff, there is no better book.
I really have no clue how my mind works most days...
Dave K
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David Koudys wrote:
| |
On that I agree. If I were to make a polite suggestion for LUGNET, it
would be to get the user activation/posting thing resolved. I mean,
for us old-timers, this is nothing.
|
Sounds like you haven’t managed to change your password to something you
can’t remember. I still have posting rights, but I can’t access my
profile until one of the admins finds time to give me a new/temporary
password.
I wait with hope for just some small improvement to the current system.
Play well,
Jacob
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I *never* visit Lugnet any more, but thought I'd pop in, and here you guys are!
It's very interesting - over on the SeaLUG email list, we've been having a big
discussion about all these changes, and the nature of LEGO fan-dom, fan cons,
and whatnot. I knew that some changes along these lines were coming, and it's
been interesting to see the various reactions of people.
My own feelings are basically very much in line with David's. My LEGO-based
business aside, for me LEGO is about the bricks, the people, and sharing
experiences together. The company itself is much less important. Also, like
you guys, I've been around a loooooong time, and can keenly remember when the
company had zero contact with the outside world (at least from my small-town
Canadian perspective), so to see the interaction that fans have now? Quite
remarkable.
That said, I do think that TLG has begun to take its fan base a little for
granted. Gushing fan support is assumed, and that may turn out to be less true
than the Danish high mucky-mucks believe. We shall see.
I just really hope I'll be able to get out to the GTO next July to hang out with
you guys!
Robin
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In lugnet.general, Robin Sather wrote:
> I *never* visit Lugnet any more, but thought I'd pop in, and here you guys are!
>
> It's very interesting - over on the SeaLUG email list, we've been having a big
> discussion about all these changes, and the nature of LEGO fan-dom, fan cons,
> and whatnot. I knew that some changes along these lines were coming, and it's
> been interesting to see the various reactions of people.
>
> My own feelings are basically very much in line with David's. My LEGO-based
> business aside, for me LEGO is about the bricks, the people, and sharing
> experiences together. The company itself is much less important. Also, like
> you guys, I've been around a loooooong time, and can keenly remember when the
> company had zero contact with the outside world (at least from my small-town
> Canadian perspective), so to see the interaction that fans have now? Quite
> remarkable.
>
> That said, I do think that TLG has begun to take its fan base a little for
> granted. Gushing fan support is assumed, and that may turn out to be less true
> than the Danish high mucky-mucks believe. We shall see.
>
> I just really hope I'll be able to get out to the GTO next July to hang out with
> you guys!
>
> Robin
Is probably why I really never wanted to be ambassador. I mean, I love the
ambassadors we have, and they do a fantastic job. I wouldn't be so good or
fantastic, because I really have no filter most times.
Anyway, get to BF2013 and we'll hang!
Dave K
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I'd like to add a couple thoughts that occurred to me which make me somewhat
unsure where I fall on the spectrum of thought here, though I think I hie closer
to where David is.
Firstly, as an AFOL who has never lived anywhere near a convention, it's hard to
get too disappointed that my inability to attend has been made *slightly* less
tragic. Living in Alberta the closest con was/is BrickCon, but while my younger
brothers have made the two-days-each-way drive to attend, that was never an
option for me in university, and now that I live in Greater Boston,
Massachusetts, I find myself hardly any closer; though I suppose I could get to
Brickfête in a day--a looooong day.
I still {i}want{/i} to attend a convention; as a long-term AFOL nonattendee, the
desire does not stem from the deals and discounts TLC offers. In fact, the
third-party vendors and people selling long-out-of-stores sets are far more
exciting, but those are secondary as well. The point of a con (says this
con-virgin) is not acquisition.
However, the other point...
I'm wondering in all of this whether TLC will still have a booth at San Diego
ComicCon. I assume so--it's not a LEGO convention and there can be no denying
that they've benefited tremendously from the publicity given by their exclusive
giveaways.
Here's the thing though... those exclusive giveaways kind of stick in my craw as
a LEGO fan. I understand how it helps keep the company profitable (and I want
that, seeing how I want to keep buying their products), but these giveaways are
desirable to both LEGO fans and Comic Book (or LotR, or Star Wars... etc.) fans
and as a general rule the LEGO side of that equation is disadvantaged by
limiting these giveaways to SDCC.
Again, I understand why they do it and in and of itself I don't really fault
them for it, BUT I did think it addressed the imbalance to do something special
for the fans at the LEGO-specific conventions. Yes, a company needs to get
publicity (good publicity, for that matter) in the wider world to draw in a new
or fickle clientele, but they should not neglect their existing, loyal fanbase.
Even if I (or many AFOLs) could never attend a LEGO con, I appreciated LEGO
giving the fan community some attention. It was good intra-community publicity,
and while I don't think it needed to be done to the same extravagant level of
SDCC, I do think it was worth doing.
So, I guess I have two points of indecision: one, I would feel better if LEGO
had announced some sort of alternate way of interacting with the AFOL community.
A less extensive--or expensive--way is fine, but so far... nothing; two, I would
like to know if there has been any scaling back of extra-community convention
going. In the meantime, I'm a bit indecisive...
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In lugnet.general, Michael A. Joosten wrote:
<snip>
> So, I guess I have two points of indecision: one, I would feel better if LEGO
> had announced some sort of alternate way of interacting with the AFOL community.
> A less extensive--or expensive--way is fine, but so far... nothing; two, I would
> like to know if there has been any scaling back of extra-community convention
> going. In the meantime, I'm a bit indecisive...
That's a good point--if TLC's outreach to the general populace hasn't changed
(and at this point I'm not sure of the status of this point), such as ComiCon or
whathaveyou, then this really is a slap-in-the-face to the loyal fans.
For myself, I don't care. I'm a brickfan and a fan of AFOL's that I know. For
the community, this would suck, though.
We would have to see if this speculation becomes proven.
Dave K
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For the most part, I think you're spot on-- although I don't foresee a huge
outcry from fans regarding a change in support for LUGs and events. The color
change and 9v really affected everyone as customers, versus this which is (as I
understand it) more-or-less just the level of perks that we'll be getting. So
hopefully, if the support drops, we won't see a lot of protest from hobbyists.
I think there is one *possible* caveat which is that doing shows is actually a
requirement for participating in LUGBULK (and the Ambassador program, but meh--
that's not terribly valuable these days). If the LUGBULK program is terminated,
I could see some of the smaller LUGs not bothering to try and keep doing the
minimum 2 shows per year. LUGBULK (at least as I perceive it) is a pretty large
incentive to keep your LUG active.
DaveE
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In lugnet.general, David Eaton wrote:
> For the most part, I think you're spot on-- although I don't foresee a huge
> outcry from fans regarding a change in support for LUGs and events. The color
> change and 9v really affected everyone as customers, versus this which is (as I
> understand it) more-or-less just the level of perks that we'll be getting. So
> hopefully, if the support drops, we won't see a lot of protest from hobbyists.
>
> I think there is one *possible* caveat which is that doing shows is actually a
> requirement for participating in LUGBULK (and the Ambassador program, but meh--
> that's not terribly valuable these days). If the LUGBULK program is terminated,
> I could see some of the smaller LUGs not bothering to try and keep doing the
> minimum 2 shows per year. LUGBULK (at least as I perceive it) is a pretty large
> incentive to keep your LUG active.
>
> DaveE
Hey you! Long time no talk! :)
Are we allowed to talk about LB here? (not that many ppl read this forum
anymore ;) )
My incentives for doing shows, ever since the first show, were to a) display my
absolutely fabulous mocs (yeah, whatever...), b) interact iwth the public and
bring the LEGO hobby into a more 'mainstream' conscious and acceptance, but
moost important c) hang out with AFOL's. I mean, really it was the Chris and
Calum show iwth RTL competitoins and the first train shows that RTL ran (as well
as my first trip to BF in 2004) that I derived so much joy from just hanging
with AFOL's. Allan's Hobby show--the first time we displayed all sorts of MOCs
from all sorts of builders, was fantastic, and it just went on from there.
None of my involvment for any of the shows and rtl competitions (1st place 6+
times--put that in yer book!) had anything to do with getting swag from TLC.
Now getting stuff, or getting reduced pricing is awesome--don't get me
wrong--recognition for what we're bringing to the table. But that's always been
parenthetical, at least for me.
And if the 'can't-mention-here-I-think' program discontinues, I'm still doing
shows. As I've always stated--corporations can do whatever they want--really
they can. I can yip and rail against their decision making process (and I
will). However, what they do and the decisions they make will not impact one
iota on what I do with my time and my hobbies. Again, if TLC folded shop
tomorrow (sad :( ) would shows stop? Nope. So if that's the single worst
possible scenario, then any other happening coming down the pipe from TLC really
is irrelevant to what I'm doing with this hobby.
I love this hobby. I love the ppl in this hobby. After all I've posted here
thru the years, I actually love the LEGO company for providing me the ability to
have this hobby. However, they owe me nothing, and, in return, I owe them
nothing. I don't owe Tide anything when I use their stuff for laundry (bad
example for me to be sure, 'cause I worked for P&G)..
Anyway, the only thing I will do is present myself, and my shows, in the best
possible light such that no indiscretion or impropriety can be interpreted that
may reflect badly--not just on TLC, but on myself and my fellow AFOL's. When I
read about various things thru the years that reflect badly on the hobby and on
us, I get so down. It's not that these impact on TLC, but on us. We're suppose
to be the Adult in the AFOL and we should strive to handle ourselves with
decorum and principles. I know stuff happens in all communities everywhere, but
since I'm here in this community, this is where I get impacted.
Anyway, I'm rambling, again, so I'll stop now
Dave K
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In lugnet.general, David Koudys wrote:
> So yeah, I'm posting in l.general...
[snipped lots of good stuff]
> Whatever happens, know that I appreciate all of you. I truly do. And if you
> vehemently disagree with me on any of the above, that won't change my
> appreciation.
>
> Dave K
I'm just catching up on this conversation. I do find it interesting. Although
I'm pretty sure I read about some of the cuts in support, I didn't really pay
them any attention. Throughout my time as an AFOL, what the company does has
never really concerned me. The biggest impact to me was the end of 9v, but even
then my personal collection was plenty for home, and my club had enough track to
continue doing shows for years (and we have).
Over the years I've had some not-so-great interactions with the company, but
they were the same sort of things I've run into working with any large company.
They were irritating at the time, but never to the point where they drove me out
of the hobby. I guess they did sour me to working with the company some, but if
they approach me in the future about a project, I wouldn't turn it down
outright.
One thing that did bother me about AFOL/LEGO interactions was the NDAs. From a
corporate standpoint I totally understand the need, but I what I saw from the
fan side was a lot of talented people sort of dropping out of sight as they got
pulled into official projects. They stopped posting to fan sites, and some of
them seemed to have left the hobby altogether. In reality, they were still
producing great work, they just couldn't talk about it.
What you said above though, really resonates with me. "Whatever happens, know
that I appreciate all of you." Yep. Same here. It's the community that I
love. For various reasons I haven't been building a lot in the past few years,
and I admit that I've never been that vocal in the wider community, but I've
always really enjoyed hanging out with my LUG when I can, visiting other LUGs
when I can, organizing and putting on displays, and in the past couple of years,
getting to know folks from all over the world by getting involved in RAILBRICKS.
None of these things have been driven by perks from the company. They've all
been driven by my need to hang out with talented creative people who inspire me
in more ways than I can really count. Some of these people have become some of
my best friends outside of the hobby, and for that, I'm thankful.
-Elroy
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In lugnet.general, Elroy Davis wrote:
<snip lotsa wonderful stuff>
> getting to know folks from all over the world by getting involved in RAILBRICKS.
> None of these things have been driven by perks from the company. They've all
> been driven by my need to hang out with talented creative people who inspire me
> in more ways than I can really count. Some of these people have become some of
> my best friends outside of the hobby, and for that, I'm thankful.
>
> -Elroy
Very nicely stated, Elroy!
Dave K
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