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-- guild hq, dateline 31/03/2000 --
Today, on 31 March 2000, we, the undersigned, are pleased to publicly announce
the formation and existence of
-- THE GUILD OF BRICKSMITHS(tm) --
The Guild is a band of LEGO Fans who have become concerned at the dearth of
high quality kits available and decided to do something about it. Founded in
early December of 1999, the Guild began planning ways of fostering commerce
and developing kits for the Adult Fan marketplace, working together to
develop the mechanisms to make it happen, and gathering supplies for our
initial production runs.
Read more about the Guild and our plans, hopes and goals at:
http://mrfws1.innovation.com/~larryp/guild/guild_blurb.html
The Guild is pleased to announce that Guildsman Daniel Siskind has launched
his new line of products with the stunning Brickmania 001 Blacksmith shop.
This 600 plus piece beauty, the first in a series of castle-themed custom
building kits designed by Dan Siskind and made entirely with LEGO (tm)
building bricks. is a marvel of design and detail, and is offered to the
general public at Dan's site. Dan will soon be selling two other kits,
Crossroads Tavern (Brickmania 002) and Country Mill (Brickmania 003)
Read more about it at:
http://www.brickmania.com/kits.html
(temporarily, pending some minor DNS problems being resolved:
http://64.224.224.231/kits.html )
The Guild is pleased to announce that Guildsman Kevin Wilson has concluded
test marketing of his city accessories: Decorative Fountain, and Old
Fashioned Street Lamps, and is offering them to the general public at his
site. Kevin has commenced production of his Painted Lady Victorian kit which
will be available soon. Kevin also is planning for a unique custom sailing
ship assembled model to be made available soon.
Read more about it at:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/kwilson_tccs/kevc.htm
The Guild is pleased to announce that Guildsman James Powell is continuing
to market his line of 2 axle Waggons, with two types currently available and
more under development. He is offering them to the general public at his
site.
Read more about it at:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/2049/LegoJPG/FSwaggon/FSwag.html
The Guild is pleased to annouce that Guildsman Larry Pieniazek is continuing
to market his 4 axle hopper kit, and has plans for the release of a Bulkhead
Flat kit as well as a much more comprehensive line of 9V trains.
Read more about it at:
http://mrfws1.innovation.com/~larryp/milton/index.html
Watch for more news from the Guild of Bricksmiths.
Kits of Distinction: Designed by Craftsmen, Built by Connoisseurs
Signed:
- Dan Siskind
- Kevin Wilson
- James Powell
- John Neal
- Julie Krenz
- Larry Pieniazek
- Michael Ulring
- Mike Stanley
- Tom Stangl
- Tony Priestman
The Guild of Bricksmiths.
-- ends --
We are all pretty excited. This is the dawning of a new level of cooperative
fan endeavour.
FUT lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade.
If there are questions about the guild operation, we'd be happy to discuss in
market.theory (however some information is proprietary, sorry about that)
Larry Pieniazek, Guildsman
Lugnet Member #5
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> http://www.brickmania.com/kits.html
>
> (temporarily, pending some minor DNS problems being resolved:
> http://64.224.224.231/kits.html )
Wow! Amazing models there.. if only I had a spare $190 that Blacksmiths shop
would be mine! Please keep it up, at least until I graduate and can afford some
of these kits :)
Richard
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Congratulations, Bricksmiths, on your new endeavour! Your first wave of
models look great. The big questions is, "How does one become a 'Guild'
member?" It would be great to see the answer to this question in your FAQ.
Ashley LM90
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In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Ashley Glennon writes:
> Congratulations, Bricksmiths, on your new endeavour! Your first wave of
> models look great. The big questions is, "How does one become a 'Guild'
> member?" It would be great to see the answer to this question in your FAQ.
> Ashley LM90
ya! me too! same big question!
later ~ craig~
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In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Ashley Glennon writes:
> Congratulations, Bricksmiths, on your new endeavour! Your first wave of
> models look great. The big questions is, "How does one become a 'Guild'
> member?" It would be great to see the answer to this question in your FAQ.
> Ashley LM90
We'll take it under advisement.
Right now the process is by invite only, although I can see it ought to be a
discussion topic on our internal list.
Being a Guild member is a heavy burden and confers no special discounts.
++Lar
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In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> Right now the process is by invite only, although I can see it ought to be a
> discussion topic on our internal list.
Factionalism within Lugnet begins: the Council, the Guild of Builders, etc.
-- Richard
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Richard Marchetti wrote:
> Factionalism within Lugnet begins: the Council, the Guild of Builders, >etc.
If you mean the Guild of BrickSMITHS, it is no more "within LUGNET" than
it is "within RTL". Completely separate entity. Nor is it a faction.
Kevin
--
Personal Lego Web page:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/kwilson_tccs/lego.html
eBay auctions:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/kevinw1/
Subscribe to my Lego auction mailing list:
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Legopartsales?referer=1
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"Kevin Wilson" <70641.507@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:38E97AEF.1E8CFE2B@compuserve.com...
> Richard Marchetti wrote:
> > Factionalism within Lugnet begins: the Council, the Guild of Builders,
> etc.
>
> If you mean the Guild of BrickSMITHS, it is no more "within LUGNET" than
> it is "within RTL". Completely separate entity. Nor is it a faction.
faction = a group within a larger group.
I'd say Richard was/is right - unless you are contesting that it is
coincidence that all the GBS members are also LUGNETers? What Richard's
point is, I am not sure(?). Either way, I'm not sure this belongs in
.theory?
Scott A
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In lugnet.market.theory, Scott Arthur writes:
>
> "Kevin Wilson" <70641.507@compuserve.com> wrote in message
> news:38E97AEF.1E8CFE2B@compuserve.com...
> > Richard Marchetti wrote:
> > > Factionalism within Lugnet begins: the Council, the Guild of Builders,
> > etc.
> >
> > If you mean the Guild of BrickSMITHS, it is no more "within LUGNET" than
> > it is "within RTL". Completely separate entity. Nor is it a faction.
>
>
>
> faction = a group within a larger group.
Warning, some words elided from the above by Scott.
http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=faction
gives as the first reference:
1.A group of persons forming a cohesive, usually contentious minority within a
larger group.
2.Conflict within an organization or nation; internal dissension:
“Our own beloved country . . . is now
afflicted with faction and civil war” (Abraham Lincoln).
and further down
faction n 1: a clique that seeks power usually through intrigue [syn: cabal,
junta, junto, camarilla] 2: a dissenting
clique [syn: sect]
My perception is that under these definitions we are not a "faction". While we
are within a larger group, we aren't engaged in "intruige" (although our sets
are more intruiging than TLC work at current), we seek no power other than that
which the market gives us, (to influence what is available now and in future)
and are certainly not conflicting or fomenting internal dissent.
If Richard percieves people getting together to bring fans better sets as
"seeking power" (dunno, he chose to use the word faction, but that may not be
what he meant), he may have other issues. But then, he may not have read our
stuff all that closely, since he didn't get our name right. I'd give him the
benefit of the doubt, after he has read it closely, I'd invite his comments.
I'd say that this is at least tangentially related to .theory
++Lar
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"Larry Pieniazek" <lar@voyager.net> wrote in message
news:FsHw2E.1uM@lugnet.com...
> In lugnet.market.theory, Scott Arthur writes:
> >
> > "Kevin Wilson" <70641.507@compuserve.com> wrote in message
> > news:38E97AEF.1E8CFE2B@compuserve.com...
> > > Richard Marchetti wrote:
> > > > Factionalism within Lugnet begins: the Council, the Guild of • Builders,
> > > etc.
> > >
> > > If you mean the Guild of BrickSMITHS, it is no more "within LUGNET" • than
> > > it is "within RTL". Completely separate entity. Nor is it a faction.
> >
> >
> >
> > faction = a group within a larger group.
>
> Warning, some words elided from the above by Scott.
...are you insinuating I would seek to deliberately mislead anyone? A
faction is "group within a larger group", you may choose to be paranoid
regarding RM's usage of the word... I do not. :-)
Scott A
>
> http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=faction
>
> gives as the first reference:
>
> 1.A group of persons forming a cohesive, usually contentious minority • within a
> larger group.
> 2.Conflict within an organization or nation; internal • dissension:
> "Our own beloved country . . . is now
> afflicted with faction and civil war" (Abraham Lincoln).
>
> and further down
>
> faction n 1: a clique that seeks power usually through intrigue [syn: • cabal,
> junta, junto, camarilla] 2: a dissenting
> clique [syn: sect]
>
> My perception is that under these definitions we are not a "faction". • While we
> are within a larger group, we aren't engaged in "intruige" (although our • sets
> are more intruiging than TLC work at current), we seek no power other than • that
> which the market gives us, (to influence what is available now and in • future)
> and are certainly not conflicting or fomenting internal dissent.
>
> If Richard percieves people getting together to bring fans better sets as
> "seeking power" (dunno, he chose to use the word faction, but that may not • be
> what he meant), he may have other issues. But then, he may not have read • our
> stuff all that closely, since he didn't get our name right. I'd give him • the
> benefit of the doubt, after he has read it closely, I'd invite his • comments.
>
> I'd say that this is at least tangentially related to .theory
>
> ++Lar
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In lugnet.market.theory, Scott Arthur writes:
>
> Lar:
> > Scott:
> > > Kevin:
> > > > If you mean the Guild of BrickSMITHS, it is no more "within LUGNET"
> > > > than it is "within RTL". Completely separate entity.
> > > > Nor is it a faction.
> > > faction = a group within a larger group.
> > Warning, some words elided from the above by Scott.
> ...are you insinuating I would seek to deliberately mislead anyone?
Hardly. Why, *did* you? I would say "accidentally misled" because I don't
choose to ascribe malice to that which can be satisfactorily explained
otherwise.
> A faction is "group within a larger group",
Yes, we heard this incomplete definition the first time, thanks muchly for
repeating it.
As I demonstrated, it is not. Not merely, at any rate. Faction carries a
connotation which is *quite* negatively loaded. One which cannot be evaded by
accusations of paranoia on the part of the recepients of the appelation.
Why are we going here? We're not a faction. We seek to sow no dissent, start no
brawls, foment no discord. We merely wish to present our wares for purchase.
And so we did, to apparently universal acclaim if the ratings on our
announcement are to be believed.
Why not wait for Richard to clarify his remarks, if he so chooses? Or drop it.
++Lar
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In lugnet.market.theory, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> In lugnet.market.theory, Scott Arthur writes:
> >
> > Lar:
> > > Scott:
> > > > Kevin:
> > > > > If you mean the Guild of BrickSMITHS, it is no more "within LUGNET"
> > > > > than it is "within RTL". Completely separate entity.
> > > > > Nor is it a faction.
>
> > > > faction = a group within a larger group.
>
> > > Warning, some words elided from the above by Scott.
>
> > ...are you insinuating I would seek to deliberately mislead anyone?
>
> Hardly. Why, *did* you? I would say "accidentally misled" because I don't
> choose to ascribe malice to that which can be satisfactorily explained
> otherwise.
>
> > A faction is "group within a larger group",
>
> Yes, we heard this incomplete definition the first time, thanks muchly for
> repeating it.
>
> As I demonstrated, it is not. Not merely, at any rate. Faction carries a
> connotation which is *quite* negatively loaded. One which cannot be evaded by
> accusations of paranoia on the part of the recepients of the appelation.
>
> Why are we going here? We're not a faction. We seek to sow no dissent, start no
> brawls, foment no discord. We merely wish to present our wares for purchase.
> And so we did, to apparently universal acclaim if the ratings on our
> announcement are to be believed.
For the record, I see no difference between the New Guild and WAMALUG,
GMLTC, Dixielug, NELUG, etc. (essentially like mided individuals sharing the
same geography, enterprise, etc.)
By extension Lugnet is a faction w/in a large group of on-line Lego fans,
on-line Lego fans are a subset of a an even larger group of Lego builders,
and so forth. All of us are already divided by geography, lineage,
occupation etc.; Must we be divided by our love of our hobby or United by
our appreciation of these little bricks ? (ok stump speech over.)
I welcome your new Lego endeavor and I like the entrepenuerial spirit that
this guild has demonstrated...I think Lego (and the whole US) needs more of
it..."thinking outside the box", risking failure/success, and taking
initiative to change the status quo (many lame TLC sets) should be supported
not derided or dismissed...isn't that evolution?
I could write letters of protest to TLC about their recent offerings til I'm
50, withut eliciting a serious consideration from the owners. Hey TLC isn't
my company so I don't make the rules...I register my vote w/ my
wallet/credit card. This is a traditional means of lodging a complaint that
often accomplishes something...These interesting alternative sets, while
showcasing the talents of the creators, also show up the current Lego
offerings by comparison...Proactive protest; instead of endlessly ranting
about crappy Lego jr. sets, these guys made their own...they found a niche
business where there is high demand...whether they become millionaires and
quit there day jobs remains to be seen.
I made a few original vehicles that I intended to eBay eventually...or sell
through a website...a sort of Lego car company w/ a few models...but I
haven't gotten off my rear to realize this goal yet...somebody else has done
it...I wish them luck and look forward to details...I commend their
initiative and do not view them as a clique, a threat whatsoever...and if
they start a revolution so be it = )
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In lugnet.market.theory, Larry Pieniazek writes:
[snip]
> faction n 1: a clique that seeks power usually through intrigue [syn: cabal,
> junta, junto, camarilla]
Cool. The Cabal of Brick-layers...oh wait...isn't that the Masons?
Anyone here play Illuminati by SJG? "The Bavarian Illuminati attempts to
control The LEGO Company with the assistance of 30-something nerds."
Chris
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In lugnet.market.theory, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> In lugnet.market.theory, Larry Pieniazek writes:
>
> [snip]
> > faction n 1: a clique that seeks power usually through intrigue [syn: cabal,
> > junta, junto, camarilla]
>
> Cool. The Cabal of Brick-layers...oh wait...isn't that the Masons?
>
> Anyone here play Illuminati by SJG? "The Bavarian Illuminati attempts to
> control The LEGO Company with the assistance of 30-something nerds."
:)
"Relax, it's only 1's and 0's." - The Network
Illuminati is one of my favorite non-serious games, ranking up there with
Hunta (Yes, El Presidente!) and Family Business (Up against the wall!)
Although lately I've been getting hooked on silly games from a company called
"Cheap-Ass Games", which produces funky little games with minimal
packaging/overhead.
James
http://www.shades-of-night.com/lego/
I'm getting paid for this --> alladvantage.com
Sign up via me, the reference $$ go to fund Lugnet.
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, James Brown writes:
> Although lately I've been getting hooked on silly games from a company called
> "Cheap-Ass Games", which produces funky little games with minimal
> packaging/overhead.
Barbara and I have "Kill Dr. Lucky", it's a hoot. We also have "Escape from
Elba" and "Spree", which we haven't played yet. Why? I dunno, maybe to
preserve the original packaging... ;-)
Cheers,
- jsproat
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Jeremy H. Sproat writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.fun, James Brown writes:
> > Although lately I've been getting hooked on silly games from a company called
> > "Cheap-Ass Games", which produces funky little games with minimal
> > packaging/overhead.
Incidentally, James Ernest (the prez of the company) is a Lego fan.
http://www.cheapass.com/eyeca.html
Cheers,
- jsproat
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Erm, replying to myself replying to myself again...
In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Jeremy H. Sproat writes:
> Incidentally, James Ernest (the prez of the company) is a Lego fan.
> http://www.cheapass.com/eyeca.html
But isn't that Bram's photocopier?
Cheers,
- jsproat
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Jeremy H. Sproat writes:
> Erm, replying to myself replying to myself again...
>
> In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Jeremy H. Sproat writes:
> > Incidentally, James Ernest (the prez of the company) is a Lego fan.
> > http://www.cheapass.com/eyeca.html
>
> But isn't that Bram's photocopier?
I dunno who came up with that first but it sure looks like the same one Bram
has!
-Shiri
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"Sproaticus" <jsproat@io.com> writes:
> > http://www.cheapass.com/eyeca.html
>
> But isn't that Bram's photocopier?
Not quite, I think Bram has a 2x2 clear tile on the copier's surface.
But it's very close indeed!
Fredrik
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Jeremy H. Sproat writes:
> > Incidentally, James Ernest (the prez of the company) is a Lego fan.
> > http://www.cheapass.com/eyeca.html
>
> But isn't that Bram's photocopier?
Similar, but not quite. The again, some details on mine were inspired by
another that I saw, I think...
The other models are pretty nice. This render was especially nice:
http://www.cheapass.com/Graphics/taurus.jpg
Evidently James Ernest is not only a fan of LEGO, but a fan of L3P too.
--Bram
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"Bram Lambrecht" <BramL@JUNO.com> writes:
> The other models are pretty nice. This render was especially nice:
> http://www.cheapass.com/Graphics/taurus.jpg
> Evidently James Ernest is not only a fan of LEGO, but a fan of L3P too.
Are you sure that's L3P? I don't think so. Look at the control stick
on the top, for example. An L3P'd version of this would have visible
polygons, I think. Or is the scale too small for the polygons to be
visible?
And what about that small dish? There's something wrong about it. I
don't think and L3P'd version would look like that. (Aren't the edges
too thin?)
Either way, it does look like a POV-Ray rendering. He probably used
media for the light beams, right? If they weren't added afterwards in
a graphics program, that is.
Fredrik
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I have in my hot little hands "The Big Cheese", gifted to me by a cow-orker,
and having sat in my pocket for a week. We shall play it this evening.
-Cheese
In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Jeremy H. Sproat writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.fun, James Brown writes:
> > Although lately I've been getting hooked on silly games from a company called
> > "Cheap-Ass Games", which produces funky little games with minimal
> > packaging/overhead.
>
> Barbara and I have "Kill Dr. Lucky", it's a hoot. We also have "Escape from
> Elba" and "Spree", which we haven't played yet. Why? I dunno, maybe to
> preserve the original packaging... ;-)
>
> Cheers,
> - jsproat
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, James Brown writes:
> Although lately I've been getting hooked on silly games from a company called
> "Cheap-Ass Games", which produces funky little games with minimal
> packaging/overhead.
Yes. I love the pipe game.
The way I first learned of them was through the jumping frog game which uses
LEGO frog models.
Highly recommmended
++Lar
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In article <FsICIr.J5M@lugnet.com>,
James Brown <galliard@shades-of-night.com> wrote:
> Although lately I've been getting hooked on silly games from a company called
> "Cheap-Ass Games", which produces funky little games with minimal
> packaging/overhead.
Great games. Right now, I think the best games come either from Germany
or from Cheapass. :) There are exceptions, but these days, not many of
'em.
-JDF
--
J.D. Forinash ,-.
foxtrot@cc.gatech.edu ( <
The more you learn, the better your luck gets. `-'
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, James Brown writes:
> In lugnet.market.theory, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> > In lugnet.market.theory, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> >
> > [snip]
> > > faction n 1: a clique that seeks power usually through intrigue [syn: cabal,
> > > junta, junto, camarilla]
> >
> > Cool. The Cabal of Brick-layers...oh wait...isn't that the Masons?
> >
> > Anyone here play Illuminati by SJG? "The Bavarian Illuminati attempts to
> > control The LEGO Company with the assistance of 30-something nerds."
>
> :)
>
> "Relax, it's only 1's and 0's." - The Network
>
> Illuminati is one of my favorite non-serious games, ranking up there with
> Hunta (Yes, El Presidente!) and Family Business (Up against the wall!)
Hunta? I've played Junta (and just about every other game under the sun), but
not Hunta. :-)
>
> Although lately I've been getting hooked on silly games from a company called
> "Cheap-Ass Games", which produces funky little games with minimal
> packaging/overhead.
Tikal is my current favorite.
Bruce
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Bruce Schlickbernd writes:
> Tikal is my current favorite.
Have you played Stephenson's Rocket? I can't get enough of it.
Chris
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Bruce Schlickbernd writes:
>
> > Tikal is my current favorite.
>
> Have you played Stephenson's Rocket? I can't get enough of it.
What, pray tell, is this? By the title, I'd adjudge it to do with railroads,
but is it a PC game, a board game, or what?
My faves in the RR genre:
PC: Railroad Tycoon (original, strangely enough)
Board: 1830 when serious, Eurorails or Iron Dragon, when just for fun, although
Streetcar is also challenging
++Lar
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Bruce Schlickbernd writes:
> >
> > > Tikal is my current favorite.
> >
> > Have you played Stephenson's Rocket? I can't get enough of it.
>
> What, pray tell, is this? By the title, I'd adjudge it to do with railroads,
> but is it a PC game, a board game, or what?
Board. It is of German origin. It's by Reiner Knizia and distributed in
English in the US by Rio Grande Games. It's a fairly abstract board game, but
is very very challenging. I most highly reccommend it.
> My faves in the RR genre:
>
> PC: Railroad Tycoon (original, strangely enough)
I've played a few hundred hours of the new version and I think I agree with
you. The original has soul that the new one (which I have to give points to
for technical improvement) lacks. I do like the fact that there is a player
community on the net involved in creating maps and scenarios for the new game.
I also like the PC version of 1830. I mostly play with random maps now.
> Board: 1830 when serious, Eurorails or Iron Dragon, when just for fun,
> although Streetcar is also challenging
I prefer 1870 of the 18xx games that I've played (1830, 56, 70, 53(?...Imperial
India), and 35.
Eurorails is my fave of the crayon games, but Iron Dragon has some nice rules
additions. (I don't care for the foreman rules) Nippon (especially) or
Australian or Brittish rails both make better two player games than the large
boards.
I've played Silverton, and I think there are some good ideas burried in it, but
it's really boring and cumbersome. Union Pacific is pretty good - basically a
remake of Airlines.
My favorite 'train' board game is Iron Duke, but it's only a train game in the
way it's portrayed. It's doesn't feel trainy, and it's really a puzzle game.
Chris
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> > > Have you played Stephenson's Rocket? I can't get enough of it.
> >
> > What, pray tell, is this? By the title, I'd adjudge it to do with railroads,
> > but is it a PC game, a board game, or what?
>
> Board. It is of German origin. It's by Reiner Knizia and distributed in
> English in the US by Rio Grande Games. It's a fairly abstract board game, but
> is very very challenging. I most highly reccommend it.
Sounds good. Can you tell more about it? For example, I consider 1830 more
"abstract" than eurorails. One of the reasons I like 1830 is the stock market
manipulation. What do you mean by abstract..
For flat out beer and pretzels, it's tough to beat railway rivals... a bit of
business at the beginning about who gets through what passes first, and then
it's just pure luck.
> > My faves in the RR genre:
> >
> > PC: Railroad Tycoon (original, strangely enough)
>
> I've played a few hundred hours of the new version and I think I agree with
> you. The original has soul that the new one (which I have to give points to
> for technical improvement) lacks. I do like the fact that there is a player
> community on the net involved in creating maps and scenarios for the new game.
I'll have to check that out.
> I also like the PC version of 1830. I mostly play with random maps now.
I have a rather old CD at this point of this which we played a fair bit, but I
like the board version better, multiplayer on the PC was cumbersome, and single
player not as fun as against humans. (it's great to send someone up the river
with a well timed dump, and you can't do that against the PC players, they
can't be suckered...)
> > Board: 1830 when serious, Eurorails or Iron Dragon, when just for fun,
> > although Streetcar is also challenging
>
> I prefer 1870 of the 18xx games that I've played (1830, 56, 70, • 53(?...Imperial
> India), and 35.
I've only played '29 (? the english) '30 and '35 (which I found quite hard to
fathom, I don't grok the intermediate stage). Why do you like '70?
> Eurorails is my fave of the crayon games, but Iron Dragon has some nice rules
> additions. (I don't care for the foreman rules) Nippon (especially) or
> Australian or Brittish rails both make better two player games than the large
> boards.
Yes. Between my brother in law and me, we have all of them except british
and the original, strangely enough, and Nippon is good for a fast 2 player.
> I've played Silverton, and I think there are some good ideas burried in it, • but
> it's really boring and cumbersome.
I've had good luck getting mundanes to try Silverton, better than say, empire
builder or rail baron, believe it or not. I agree with you, I too think there's
a good game in there somewhere struggling to get out. The notion of controlling
your own production and the strategic thinking about whether to go for one
mineral or a smattering of all, and the way the market responds to supply are
all good.
> Union Pacific is pretty good - basically a
> remake of Airlines.
>
> My favorite 'train' board game is Iron Duke, but it's only a train game in the
> way it's portrayed. It's doesn't feel trainy, and it's really a puzzle game.
I haven't played these. Have you played Streetcar?
I should also mention Transport Tycoon which I like a lot (and which you can
see the bones of in RollerCoaster Tycoon, my current fave PC game).
I just got the Lionel Trans Con PC game which I stumbled across at KBKids while
looking for other stuff, haven't tried it yet.
++Lar
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> > Board. It is of German origin. It's by Reiner Knizia and distributed in
> > English in the US by Rio Grande Games. It's a fairly abstract board game, • but
> > is very very challenging. I most highly reccommend it.
>
> Sounds good. Can you tell more about it? For example, I consider 1830 more
> "abstract" than eurorails. One of the reasons I like 1830 is the stock market
> manipulation. What do you mean by abstract..
OK. Knizia's games (the ones that I know at least) seem to have a fairly small
ruleset by which the players manipulate stuff within a fixed space. These
game/rule/logic systems have a veneer of theme pasted on. Often, even the best
jobs of matching the game to the theme is somewhat transparent. In the case of
SR, you could be building aquaducts in old Rome and it would be fun.
Before I go on too much, you can see it at
http://www.riograndegames.com/ourgames.htm#Stephensons Rocket by following the
links around a bit.
Basically, the games board is of part of England. There are several train
companies (7?) operating, each has a stack of shares to one side of the board.
The point system is Pounds, but it's really just points. (You never spend
them.) Each round, you get to take two actions. There are three types of
actions you can take, either one each of two, or two of one of them. And you
very often really need to have just one extra action to complete your little
plan...
There are four kinds of hexes on the map. They are: blank hexes, railway
starting hexes, cities, and railway towns. The three possible actions are:
move a train of any one company (and take a share of that company) (this can be
vetoed (or attempted at any rate) by other share holders), play a station (on
any empty hex that's not adjacent to another station or to a railhead (as
marked by the train)), or collect a cargo token from one of the cities.
Scoring (for you) is accumulated through the game by connecting any train
company to a city where you hold one or more of the three cargo tokens, by
running a train company next to a railway town if you have majority (or second)
number of stations on that line, and by causing mergers. A merger happens
whenever two rail lines become adjacent. The one that moves folds into the
other one. stocks are traded in at 1:2 and the company that's folding scores
for the two majority holders of both stocks and stations.
At the end of the game, scoring is done in similar ways and also, people who
have majorities of the various types of cargo markers get more. It is
generally pretty close with some surprises when the points are tallied at the
end of the game.
If this has been unclear, the rules are available at the link above.
> For flat out beer and pretzels, it's tough to beat railway rivals... a bit of
> business at the beginning about who gets through what passes first, and then
> it's just pure luck.
I've played, but I recall it being pretty simple, and nice enough, but it
didn't scream "buy me." And so I didn't.
> > I also like the PC version of 1830. I mostly play with random maps now.
>
> I have a rather old CD at this point of this which we played a fair bit, but I
> like the board version better, multiplayer on the PC was cumbersome, and • single
> player not as fun as against humans. (it's great to send someone up the river
Right...I've only played single player. I'd rather play on a board with
players too, but I can drive through a game in 1 hour which I just can't do
with humans on the other end.
> with a well timed dump, and you can't do that against the PC players, they
> can't be suckered...)
Agreed. But I can. So they get the best of me. And on the 1 in 3 where I win
, I feel like I earned it.
> > I prefer 1870 of the 18xx games that I've played (1830, 56, 70, • 53(?...Imperial
> > India), and 35.
>
> I've only played '29 (? the english) '30 and '35 (which I found quite hard to
> fathom, I don't grok the intermediate stage). Why do you like '70?
Oh yeah, I've played '29 too, with one or two of the little expansions. Maybe
for social reasons more than game reasons. It was my second try with the
system, after '56. I think it's quite better than '56 which is dominated by
the socializing of the Canadian lines (as it's supposed to be). I also lived
in the area 1870 covered (the south midwest: Chicago to Texas). OTOH, I've met
others from around the nation who also like it best. <shrug> Have you ever
looked at http://freespace.virgin.net/chris.lawson/18xx/index.htm ? It's a
great 18xx site.
> > Eurorails is my fave of the crayon games, but Iron Dragon has some nice rules
> > additions. (I don't care for the foreman rules) Nippon (especially) or
> > Australian or Brittish rails both make better two player games than the large
> > boards.
>
> Yes. Between my brother in law and me, we have all of them except british
> and the original, strangely enough, and Nippon is good for a fast 2 player.
I have the original Empire builder, first printing, in a big flat 1-inch high
box and crappy cards. I've never replaced it with a newer one.
> > I've played Silverton, and I think there are some good ideas burried in it, • but
> > it's really boring and cumbersome.
>
> I've had good luck getting mundanes to try Silverton, better than say, empire
> builder or rail baron, believe it or not. I agree with you, I too think
Wow, I've made gamers out of people with the crayon games. I think they are
second only to _Settlers of Catan_ for interesting non-gamers.
> I haven't played these. Have you played Streetcar?
I think so. Is it set in New Orleans? Or is that Railway Rivals? Is
Streetcar the same system as Linnie1? I think I have once or twice quite a
while ago.
> I should also mention Transport Tycoon which I like a lot (and which you can
Wow. I hated it :-) It never clicked with me. I could sometimes make money,
but never with planes or trucks, trains and boats only - if I'm remembering it
right. I think there was just some paradigm thing that I never phased with and
so I didn't spend the time with it that I might otherwise have.
> see the bones of in RollerCoaster Tycoon, my current fave PC game).
Is that actually good? What's the premis? I mean, I guess you're making money
at a theme park, but what's the hook?
> I just got the Lionel Trans Con PC game which I stumbled across at KBKids • while
> looking for other stuff, haven't tried it yet.
Never heard of it. Good luck.
Chris
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Larry Pieniazek writes:
<snipped synopsis>
> If this has been unclear, the rules are available at the link above.
Perused them. Seems to have a bit of Acquire-ish thinking, in how stuff merges.
Well, I'll give it a go if I see it.
> > For flat out beer and pretzels, it's tough to beat railway rivals... a bit of
> > business at the beginning about who gets through what passes first, and then
> > it's just pure luck.
>
> I've played, but I recall it being pretty simple, and nice enough, but it
> didn't scream "buy me." And so I didn't.
Ya, it's simple. Good mundanes game. I tend to buy every railroad game I
encounter, so I did.
> Have you ever
> looked at http://freespace.virgin.net/chris.lawson/18xx/index.htm ? It's a
> great 18xx site.
Thanks for the pointer!
> > I haven't played these. Have you played Streetcar?
>
> I think so. Is it set in New Orleans?
Maybe. It's a common network, upgradeable routing game, with an interesting
movement mechanism. My beef is that once the game tide turns there's not much
of a way to recover.
> Or is that Railway Rivals?
set in the central UK as so many other rail games are.
> Is
> Streetcar the same system as Linnie1? I think I have once or twice quite a
> while ago.
Not sure. The tiles are square, and you establish "stops"
<RollerCoasterTycoon>
> Is that actually good? What's the premis? I mean, I guess you're
> making money at a theme park, but what's the hook?
Mike Stanley hated it, said it was too much like work. :-) There IS a lot of
management level decision making to make, but I like that kind of stuff.
What I like about it is that your decisions about what rides to put where, how
to organize the paths, what to charge, what booths to have, and a lot of other
factors all matter. It's a good economic simulation.
What I REALLY like about it, though, is that the coaster physics are accurate,
near as I (a layman) can tell. If you don't design things right, the cars won't
make it around the course, or will go too slow through the inversions. It's
possible to make a coaster so boring that no one will ride it, or one so rough
that everybody pukes right when they get off and even if you have lots of
handymen there, you can't keep the puke off the sidewalks and park attendance
starts to fall because the peeps are grossed out.
But when you get a coaster just right, it's a beautiful thing.
Oh, and the other part that's fun is stuffing 10 pounds of rides into a 5 pound
park. I usually play well beyond when i've won the scenario just to see how
crammed full of rides (and intertwined) I can get the park.
> > I just got the Lionel Trans Con PC game which I stumbled across at KBKids • while
> > looking for other stuff, haven't tried it yet.
>
> Never heard of it. Good luck.
Played it. It's for kids. Trys to teach you history, some of it incorrect.
Avoid.
++Lar
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> <RollerCoasterTycoon>
>
> > Is that actually good? What's the premis? I mean, I guess you're
> > making money at a theme park, but what's the hook?
>
> Mike Stanley hated it, said it was too much like work. :-) There IS a lot of
Mike, you have a copy to sell cheap?
> management level decision making to make, but I like that kind of stuff.
>
> What I like about it is that your decisions about what rides to put where, how
> to organize the paths, what to charge, what booths to have, and a lot of other
> factors all matter. It's a good economic simulation.
Your review in general, and this paragraph in specific makes it sound like it's
worth a try.
<Lionel Trans Con PC game>
> Played it. It's for kids. Trys to teach you history, some of it incorrect.
> Avoid.
Yeah! I hate the teaching of incorrect stuff. That's really irresponsible and
it's amazingly widespread.
Chris
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Christopher Weeks wrote:
>
> In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> > > I also like the PC version of 1830. I mostly play with random maps now.
> >
> > I have a rather old CD at this point of this which we played a fair bit, but I
> > like the board version better, multiplayer on the PC was cumbersome, and • single
> > player not as fun as against humans. (it's great to send someone up the river
>
> Right...I've only played single player. I'd rather play on a board with
> players too, but I can drive through a game in 1 hour which I just can't do
> with humans on the other end.
Interestingly, the computer version of 1830 sold me on the real board
game. I had played 1829, but when 1830 first came out, I passed on it
because I thought the smaller board would make the game less
interesting. Definitely not so.
> > with a well timed dump, and you can't do that against the PC players, they
> > can't be suckered...)
>
> Agreed. But I can. So they get the best of me. And on the 1 in 3 where I win
> , I feel like I earned it.
>
> > > I prefer 1870 of the 18xx games that I've played (1830, 56, 70, • 53(?...Imperial
> > > India), and 35.
> >
> > I've only played '29 (? the english) '30 and '35 (which I found quite hard to
> > fathom, I don't grok the intermediate stage). Why do you like '70?
>
> Oh yeah, I've played '29 too, with one or two of the little expansions. Maybe
> for social reasons more than game reasons. It was my second try with the
> system, after '56. I think it's quite better than '56 which is dominated by
> the socializing of the Canadian lines (as it's supposed to be). I also lived
> in the area 1870 covered (the south midwest: Chicago to Texas). OTOH, I've met
> others from around the nation who also like it best. <shrug> Have you ever
> looked at http://freespace.virgin.net/chris.lawson/18xx/index.htm ? It's a
> great 18xx site.
I haven't checked this site against the games I have to see if I have
all the 18xx games which are commonly available in stores (I am still
hoping to find the original editions of 1829). I even picked up 2038 by
Tim Jim games, which looks like a good extension of the theme into the
asteroid belt. I haven't played this with real players, but solo played
a 4 player game, and it seemed to flow pretty well. I was also glad I
didn't rush out and buy 1856 and 1870, I later found them on clearance
for half price. Right now I'd have to say that the original edition of
1829 south would be my favorite as that is the only one I've played much
of.
I definitely enjoy economic games (which is what the 18xx games really
are). I've long enjoyed Acquire, especially since I won the 1st game I
played. I forget if it was that 1st game, or my 2nd where I had the
starting tiles to create three hotel chains and cause the two mergers to
bring them together before anyone else had a chance to buy any of the
stock (they were all busy buying stock in the chains THEY had started).
--
Frank Filz
-----------------------------
Work: mailto:ffilz@us.ibm.com (business only please)
Home: mailto:ffilz@mindspring.com
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Frank Filz writes:
> I definitely enjoy economic games (which is what the 18xx games really
> are).
I do too. And I agree that 18xx is fully an economic game.
> I've long enjoyed Acquire,
Have you seen the new version? I just picked it up Saturday morning. It's
pretty. The game doesn't need to be pretty, but it is nicer.
Chris
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In article <Ft6MKL.5I9@lugnet.com>,
Christopher Weeks <clweeks@eclipse.net> wrote:
> Have you seen the new version? I just picked it up Saturday morning. It's
> pretty. The game doesn't need to be pretty, but it is nicer.
I had not realized it was out.
Is it more like 1st edition or second edition Acquire? (The major difference
was the "special actions" showed up in second edition...
-JDF
--
J.D. Forinash ,-.
foxtrot@cc.gatech.edu ( <
The more you learn, the better your luck gets. `-'
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> > > In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Bruce Schlickbernd writes:
ka-snip
> I also like the PC version of 1830. I mostly play with random maps now.
We don't really bother with the board game version at all anymore - 1830
straight off the computer. It plays *much* faster that way.
>
> > Board: 1830 when serious, Eurorails or Iron Dragon, when just for fun,
> > although Streetcar is also challenging
>
> I prefer 1870 of the 18xx games that I've played (1830, 56, 70, • 53(?...Imperial
> India), and 35.
We've 18xxed out in general (except on the computer). Perhaps those 9 hour
1829 games pushed us over the edge. :-)
>
> Eurorails is my fave of the crayon games, but Iron Dragon has some nice rules
> additions. (I don't care for the foreman rules) Nippon (especially) or
> Australian or Brittish rails both make better two player games than the large
> boards.
Ditto to all the above.
>
> I've played Silverton, and I think there are some good ideas burried in it,
> but it's really boring and cumbersome.
I know several people who like it, but I tend to agree with you it can be on
the boring side.
My amusing Silverton story: we were playing the original version before the
expansion came out at a game convention in the open gaming area. Lots of
people wander by to watch. My wife looks up at one guy and out of the blue
says, "Are you the designer of this game?" He looks up, then right and left to
see if she was speaking to someone else. Seeing that he was indeed the
questioned party, he manages to stutter out a reply:
"Why, yes!" And then went on to explain about the expansion he had designed.
Scratching my head, I asked my wife later on, "You saw his name-badge, right?
That's how you knew."
"No, he just reminded me of Fritz Bronner." (designer of Liftoff!)
I will never doubt women's intuition again! :-)
> Union Pacific is pretty good - basically a
> remake of Airlines.
>
> My favorite 'train' board game is Iron Duke, but it's only a train game in the
> way it's portrayed. It's doesn't feel trainy, and it's really a puzzle game.
>
> Chris
Thumbs up on both of these.
Bruce
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Larry Pieniazek <lar@voyager.net> wrote:
> PC: Railroad Tycoon (original, strangely enough)
I got a copy of the original from ebay for $2, on the grounds that I
remember spending hours with it years ago. To my great dismay, it seems to
_require_ a numeric keypad -- something my Libretto subnotebook lacks. :(
--
Matthew Miller ---> mattdm@mattdm.org
Quotes 'R' Us ---> http://quotes-r-us.org/
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> My faves in the RR genre:
>
> PC: Railroad Tycoon (original, strangely enough)
> Board: 1830 when serious, Eurorails or Iron Dragon, when just for fun,
This may be old news, but I just discovered that Iron Dragon is being created
as a PC game. See http://www.irondragon.org/ for a few details.
Chris
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Larry Pieniazek writes:
>
> > My faves in the RR genre:
> >
> > PC: Railroad Tycoon (original, strangely enough)
> > Board: 1830 when serious, Eurorails or Iron Dragon, when just for fun,
>
> This may be old news, but I just discovered that Iron Dragon is being created
> as a PC game. See http://www.irondragon.org/ for a few details.
>
> Chris
Cool. thanks
Hopefully they will reuse the basic game engine to do some of the other non
fantasy based ones too.
++Lar
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Bruce Schlickbernd writes:
>
> > Tikal is my current favorite.
>
> Have you played Stephenson's Rocket? I can't get enough of it.
>
> Chris
Yes, a number of times. Jury's still out on this one. I'll definitely play it
again, but the scoring system tends to be completely incomprehensible to
beginners, and what you need to emphasize seems to change dependant upon number
of players in the game (which keeps the scoring incomprehensible even after a
few games). The common complaint is that even after playing a game, many
players are still not sure how to proceed in the next game. My wife and I like
railroad games in general, so we'll keep trotting it out for now.
Bruce
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In lugnet.market.theory, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
>
> In lugnet.market.theory, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> [snip]
> > faction n 1: a clique that seeks power usually through intrigue
> > [syn: cabal, junta, junto, camarilla]
>
> Cool. The Cabal of Brick-layers...
> oh wait...isn't that the Masons?
>
> Anyone here play Illuminati by SJG?
> "The Bavarian Illuminati attempts to control The LEGO Company
> with the assistance of 30-something nerds."
>
> Chris
[aside]
"Alert the Secret Masters. I've discovered someone
Who Knows Too Much (And Must Therefore Be Eliminated)..."
[/aside]
;-)
With regards to Nerds, check this out:
http://fcain.tripod.com/inwo/new_cards.html
(then search for "nerds")
Franklin
(who also happens to be a Scottish Rite Mason)
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"Franklin W. Cain" wrote:
> In lugnet.market.theory, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> >
> > In lugnet.market.theory, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> > [snip]
> > > faction n 1: a clique that seeks power usually through intrigue
> > > [syn: cabal, junta, junto, camarilla]
> >
> > Cool. The Cabal of Brick-layers...
> > oh wait...isn't that the Masons?
> >
> > Anyone here play Illuminati by SJG?
> > "The Bavarian Illuminati attempts to control The LEGO Company
> > with the assistance of 30-something nerds."
> >
> > Chris
>
> [aside]
> "Alert the Secret Masters. I've discovered someone
> Who Knows Too Much (And Must Therefore Be Eliminated)..."
> [/aside]
Chris's quote reminds me of one of the Ben Sargent-illustrated "Murphy's
Rules" from TSG where there's a cross between Illuminati and a ...very
famous game...called "Illumonopoly." The quote is something like "OK,
the Bavarians are going to try to destroy Marvin Gardens with the help
of [can't remember the faction]..."
Man, that was a fun game, Illuminati. :) (Thanks again, Steve.)
best
LFB
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Chris Weeks wrote:
> Anyone here play Illuminati by SJG? "The Bavarian Illuminati attempts >to control The LEGO Company with the assistance of 30-something nerds."
Hey, count me out of the 30-somethings! I passed 40 several years ago...
Kevin
--
Personal Lego Web page:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/kwilson_tccs/lego.html
eBay auctions:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/kevinw1/
Subscribe to my Lego auction mailing list:
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Legopartsales?referer=1
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In lugnet.market.theory, Kevin Wilson writes:
> Hey, count me out of the 30-somethings! I passed 40 several years ago...
Oh, OK. "The Bavarian Illuminati attempts to control The LEGO Company with the
assistance of 30-something nerds and geezer geeks." ;-)
Chris
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(canceled)
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In lugnet.market.theory, Scott Arthur writes:
>
> "Kevin Wilson" <70641.507@compuserve.com> wrote in message
> news:38E97AEF.1E8CFE2B@compuserve.com...
> > Richard Marchetti wrote:
> > > Factionalism within Lugnet begins: the Council, the Guild of Builders,
> > etc.
> >
> > If you mean the Guild of BrickSMITHS, it is no more "within LUGNET" than
> > it is "within RTL". Completely separate entity. Nor is it a faction.
>
> faction = a group within a larger group.
>
> I'd say Richard was/is right - unless you are contesting that it is
> coincidence that all the GBS members are also LUGNETers?
That definition is so broad as to be almost useless, though. You could
equally say that the GoB is a "faction of telephone users" or a "faction
of bipedal oxygen-breathing mammalian lifeforms".
"Faction" has all sorts of political connotations, and I don't believe the
GoB is at all intended as a political entity made to influence LUGNET.
(I also don't think that being a LUGNETter is a precondition of being a
Guild member, although there is certainly a strong overlap. That's not
surprising, since people who would be interested enough in LEGO to want to
join the Guild are also almost certainly interested enough to join
LUGNET.)
J
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In lugnet.market.theory, Richard Marchetti writes:
> In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> > Right now the process is by invite only, although I can see it ought to be a
> > discussion topic on our internal list.
>
> Factionalism within Lugnet begins: the Council, the Guild of Builders, etc.
Bah! Humbug! I am perfectly willing to let those with _that_ kind of design
skill style themselves as "BrickMasters", GuildMasters, whatever! Its a
special kind of description, and many of us can aspire to prepare our "Master
Pieces" so that we too may be invited into the guild elite! All that
our insistance upon egalitarianism has fostered is mediocrity! I say, onward
guild, show us the path to great Lego Designs! Inspire us with your
abilities,... Uhm, I gotta learn to restrain myself on occasion.
What ho chaps! Good work there, carry on.
DLC
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In lugnet.announce, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> -- guild hq, dateline 31/03/2000 --
>
> Today, on 31 March 2000, we, the undersigned, are pleased to publicly announce
> the formation and existence of
>
> -- THE GUILD OF BRICKSMITHS(tm) --
Update: The Guild of Bricksmiths site has moved to http://www.bricksmiths.com
We are also pleased to announce the addition of new Guildsman Eric Smith.
Larry Pieniazek, Bricksmith
Lugnet Member #5
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