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The other day I got another "You still play with LEGO?". I replied with: "No, I
design and build models made from LEGO." That didn't seem to help much.
I'd like to start a list of ideas and suggestions on how we might improve how
other adults view LEGO as a hobby. Any ideas?
Something that I think would help is LEGO or LEGO branded items in the work
place. Nothing cooky or over-done, but something that is detailed enough to
have people ask "Wow, is that really made of LEGO?" I thought about making nice
looking book ends for my text books or a business card holder.
Of course, I'd also like to see some other things like a leather note pad with a
subtle LEGO logo and other items used or worn in the work place.
Thoughts? Any other ways to improve the hobby image of LEGO?
Thanks,
Scott
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In lugnet.ambassadors, Scott Wardlaw wrote:
> The other day I got another "You still play with LEGO?". I replied with: "No, I
> design and build models made from LEGO." That didn't seem to help much.
>
> I'd like to start a list of ideas and suggestions on how we might improve how
> other adults view LEGO as a hobby. Any ideas?
>
> Something that I think would help is LEGO or LEGO branded items in the work
> place. Nothing cooky or over-done, but something that is detailed enough to
> have people ask "Wow, is that really made of LEGO?" I thought about making nice
> looking book ends for my text books or a business card holder.
>
> Of course, I'd also like to see some other things like a leather note pad with a
> subtle LEGO logo and other items used or worn in the work place.
>
> Thoughts? Any other ways to improve the hobby image of LEGO?
>
> Thanks,
> Scott
I just don't care what other people say. Much simpler than trying to change
their minds.
Tim
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In lugnet.ambassadors, Scott Wardlaw wrote:
> The other day I got another "You still play with LEGO?". I replied with: "No, I
> design and build models made from LEGO." That didn't seem to help much.
>
> I'd like to start a list of ideas and suggestions on how we might improve how
> other adults view LEGO as a hobby. Any ideas?
>
> Something that I think would help is LEGO or LEGO branded items in the work
> place. Nothing cooky or over-done, but something that is detailed enough to
> have people ask "Wow, is that really made of LEGO?" I thought about making nice
> looking book ends for my text books or a business card holder.
>
> Of course, I'd also like to see some other things like a leather note pad with a
> subtle LEGO logo and other items used or worn in the work place.
>
> Thoughts? Any other ways to improve the hobby image of LEGO?
I actually have done a lot of thinking on this topic-why, I am not sure why--but
I have. I am a talker as some of yall might know and am always bringing up my
little sideline business of personalizing LEGO for mainly adult LEGO builders.
It really makes a good conversation starter. The standard reply is that they
"must have way too much time on their hands". Then I reply that on a whole,
these men and women are some of the smartest and most creative subgroup of
people I have ever met. There are very few stupid AFOL's--picky, particular,
individualistic, and a bit "withdrawn" perhaps, but on the whole one incredibly
creative and intelligent bunch of people.
I think that to improve the "image" perhaps events are the best venue--that is
if you even care about the image. I have been to many and am always interacting
with the public--and events are really the only place where you get the public
at large involved on a one on one basis. Most are very intrigued and amazed at
what is presented. I think BrickJournal is also a very good medium to get across
what yall do. People like Nathan and Sean and Adam Tucker and a few others take
the message out there to the "real" world.
I think some of the "problem"-which is not really a problem, is that LEGO really
is an individual pursuit--generally speaking, when one was a child, you sat down
on the floor and built by yourself. LEGO is really not a team activity. I mean
you only need one architect on the job --design by comittee is not good-lol.
FLL is the exception and the growth of that has been exponential. LEGO people
are pretty much lousy evangelists-and that is pretty much OK. Tim's response is
a very valid reponse to the "problem". "I like what I do and do not care whether
it is 'accepted' or not."
Another drawback is that it is really an expensive hobby/avocation/obcession.
But a lot of adults really do like LEGO. I have made quite a few deskplates for
example for people who would never have thought of buying something LEGO--but
then again they are covered with wood--lol. I see it on the faces and in the
conversations at events that many would secretly like to go home to the LEGO
workshop and build stuff.
Somehow or another it is perfectly acceptable to have a woodworking shop at home
--in fact it is a "manly" avocation. It is perfectly acceptable to go out and
work on your motorcylcle or car. What we need is some TV character that
retreats to his LEGO shop when the wife or kids start getting on their nerves
(you can change the sex). Heck, life with a LEGO freak would make for a good
sitcom. Maybe product placement by TLC in a movie or TV show is the ticket--lol.
>
> Thanks,
> Scott
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I've had that same kind of question asked of me before. My response differs on
the way that they ask it. For example, the question, "You still play with
LEGOs? What are you a little kid or something?" would be retorted to with,
"Well, if I made dinky little helicopters like I did when I was a kid, then yes,
that would be lame. My club makes huge detailed layouts, and people pay a nice
chunk of change for us to do a show for them." Even if you only get a small
token payment for a show, the concept of getting money for building with LEGOs
seems to make the idea click in people's heads.
Sometimes I try to turn their questions back on them with something like, "You
still watch football?" It helps keep things in perspective when you make people
realize that we all have things in our lives that keep our inner child going.
Then, of course, you can show them the giant sets in a Shop At Home catalog or
on the LEGO website. $300-$500 sets obviously aren't meant for kids.
David
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In lugnet.ambassadors, Scott Wardlaw wrote:
> The other day I got another "You still play with LEGO?". I replied with: "No, I
> design and build models made from LEGO." That didn't seem to help much.
Next time, either say:
"You still watch grown men chase a ball around a field?" or something similar.
> I'd like to start a list of ideas and suggestions on how we might improve how
> other adults view LEGO as a hobby. Any ideas?
That's a tall order. Outside of sports, are there any other hobbies that truly
bridge the child/adult gap? When a brand has spent decades aggressively
marketing itself as a children's toy that fosters creativity and learning, it
difficult to switch gears and say "and now we've always been for adults, too."
I know, I know; early LEGO kits were indeed favored for their architectural
challenges, but if you ask 100 non AFOLs on the street, fewer than 1 of them
will know this fact.
> Something that I think would help is LEGO or LEGO branded items in the work
> place. Nothing cooky or over-done, but something that is detailed enough to
> have people ask "Wow, is that really made of LEGO?" I thought about making nice
> looking book ends for my text books or a business card holder.
Tyco tried something very similar back in the 80's, producing a fully
LEGO-compatible phone and calculator. I kept the latter on my desk, in fact,
and pretty much everyone who saw it remarked on it, but it was always with an
air of nostalgia: "I loved LEGOs (sic) when I was a kid."
> Thoughts? Any other ways to improve the hobby image of LEGO?
Why does it matter, ultimately? I don't build with my bricks for anyone's sake
but mine (and my kids'), so it makes no difference to me whether someone else
thinks that it's a kids' hobby; that's their error, not mine.
Dave!
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In lugnet.ambassadors, Scott Wardlaw wrote:
> The other day I got another "You still play with LEGO?". I replied with:
> "No, I design and build models made from LEGO." That didn't seem to help
> much.
First off, I'll offer you the suggestion that the answer isn't "no", it's "yes!"
Not to get all psychological, but if you answer "no", but still claim some sort
of personal association with Lego, their assumption may likely be that you're
defensive about your hobby. And if you're defensive, that means you might be
ashamed of it. Maybe not, but certainly that was the case for a lot of people I
know at one time or another.
Anyway, start by being positive about the hobby. "Do you still play with LEGO?"
"Yes! ... Well, ok, I guess I don't play so much as build, but yes!"
The next step, however, is that anyone who's not impressed by the hobby right
off the bat either doesn't understand how impressive it CAN be, or is someone
who will only accept it if it's mainstream. So the approach is generally either
to show them how awesome LEGO really is, or to explain how similar it is to
other mainstream hobbies.
Showing the coolness of LEGO is easy if you've got an internet connection handy,
but otherwise can be tricky. You've got to find something done with LEGO that
they'll personally find inspiring or amazing, and show them exactly what's
possible. Easy with the internet, difficult otherwise. Unless you've got them in
your house or a LEGO show with a ton of examples at your fingertips!
Drawing parallels to other hobbies, however, is a bit simpler without visual
aids-- there are a lot of modeling hobbies out there, like model railroading, or
modelers who make model WWII fighter planes, or model cars or some such.
Generally, I find that that's enough to make people say "Oh yeah! I guess it's
kind of similar to XXX, and that's not so unusual."
The other thing you get all the time is that you've "got too much time on your
hands". I seem to remember that was one of Jake McKee's big annoyances about
people who didn't understand the hobby. Plenty of people have hobbies that they
devote a lot of time to. Fixing up a classic car? "Tinkering" in the workshop?
Heck, even spending all that time plopped in front of basketball games. People
HAVE a lot of time that they don't realize they spend on things that are
productive in various ways (or are unproductive, many times). Though it's better
to compare the productive ones, of course :). Lego's just another productive
hobby outlet like all the rest.
DaveE
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In lugnet.ambassadors, Scott Wardlaw wrote:
> The other day I got another "You still play with LEGO?". I replied with: "No, I
> design and build models made from LEGO." That didn't seem to help much.
>
> I'd like to start a list of ideas and suggestions on how we might improve how
> other adults view LEGO as a hobby. Any ideas?
>
> Something that I think would help is LEGO or LEGO branded items in the work
> place. Nothing cooky or over-done, but something that is detailed enough to
> have people ask "Wow, is that really made of LEGO?" I thought about making nice
> looking book ends for my text books or a business card holder.
>
> Of course, I'd also like to see some other things like a leather note pad with a
> subtle LEGO logo and other items used or worn in the work place.
>
> Thoughts? Any other ways to improve the hobby image of LEGO?
>
> Thanks,
> Scott
Well, I've been doing something for the last two year I'd like to share and I
think it works because I'm sill doing it.
OK, so some people have thoughts about us playing, building, being fans of,
whatever of LEGO but I've found it's easy to change those ideas. In 2006, I was
asked to be a speaker in a group called Epilepsy Advocate where people living
with the condition would go out and motivate others living with epilepsy to get
out into the open.
At first, I wasn't sure what I should be talking about but it soon dawned on me
living with epilepsy since childhood and being a LEGO fan since childhood had
stuff in common. Most important being I only told those close to me and asked
them to keep their mouth shut. (I certainly don't do that anymore.) In the
opening paragraph of my speech, I tell people of my passion for LEGO. Further
in the speech I talk about my "silent ages" of my teens and the discovery of the
AFOL community in the 1990s and how it's helped me to speak up about epilepsy.
When I stand in front of the audience, I'm wearing a brick badge I got at a
BrickFest and people always ask where to get one.
If people see how LEGO can motivate an individual, as it has myself and many of
us, then that's sure to improve the adult image of LEGO.
Adr.
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In lugnet.general, David Eaton wrote:
> Anyway, start by being positive about the hobby. "Do you still play with LEGO?"
> "Yes! ... Well, ok, I guess I don't play so much as build, but yes!"
I usually answer something like, "Oh,yeah!" with a big grin on my face. While
they are a little stunned I add something like, "I tried model
railroading/shipbuilding but it was too limiting."
That really seems to click a few light bulbs because model
railroading/shipbuilding may be seen as odd but they are accepted as valid
hobbies. Usually at that point they nod and smile, maybe even chuckle and seem
more enthusiastic.
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In lugnet.ambassadors, Scott Wardlaw wrote:
> The other day I got another "You still play with LEGO?". I replied with: "No, I
> design and build models made from LEGO." That didn't seem to help much.
>
> I'd like to start a list of ideas and suggestions on how we might improve how
> other adults view LEGO as a hobby. Any ideas?
>
> Something that I think would help is LEGO or LEGO branded items in the work
> place. Nothing cooky or over-done, but something that is detailed enough to
> have people ask "Wow, is that really made of LEGO?" I thought about making nice
> looking book ends for my text books or a business card holder.
>
> Of course, I'd also like to see some other things like a leather note pad with a
> subtle LEGO logo and other items used or worn in the work place.
>
> Thoughts? Any other ways to improve the hobby image of LEGO?
>
> Thanks,
> Scott
I have been asked these questions numerous times by co-workers...especially
after we put an ad up on the bulletin board saying we wanted to buy used LEGO.
Usually when they ask if we still play with LEGO, Stacy and I enthusiastically
reply "YES!". I then offer to have them stop by my office to see the models I
have sitting on my file cabinets (Boeing 787 Model, 8275 Motorized Bulldozer,
MOC of my old cubicle). Once they see the complexity of those models, they
quickly understand that LEGO isn't just for kids. I also have pictures on my
laptop of our train layout and our basement which I show them. Once they see
those, the usual response is "Wow. You and Stacy built all of that?!?!?! How
long did it take?"
I haven't had to go much further with most people. The one question that I
usually have trouble answering is "How much do you have into this hobby?". When
I tell them, I usually get looks of disbelief and sometimes disgust. At that
point, I ask them how much they spend per year on their main hobby be it
hunting, fishing, etc. (since those hobbies are popular around here). Then I
ask them what they have to show for their money at the end of the year. Usually
they just say the memories of the hunting trip or something like that. Then it
dawns on them.
LEGO isn't a one time purchase, it's an investment in a lifetime of creativity.
Hope this helps.
-Dave
ToT-LUG
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In lugnet.ambassadors, Scott Wardlaw wrote:
> The other day I got another "You still play with LEGO?". I replied with: "No, I
> design and build models made from LEGO." That didn't seem to help much.
>
> I'd like to start a list of ideas and suggestions on how we might improve how
> other adults view LEGO as a hobby. Any ideas?
>
> Something that I think would help is LEGO or LEGO branded items in the work
> place. Nothing cooky or over-done, but something that is detailed enough to
> have people ask "Wow, is that really made of LEGO?" I thought about making nice
> looking book ends for my text books or a business card holder.
>
> Of course, I'd also like to see some other things like a leather note pad with a
> subtle LEGO logo and other items used or worn in the work place.
>
> Thoughts? Any other ways to improve the hobby image of LEGO?
>
> Thanks,
> Scott
I usually just reply that I don’t "play" with LEGO - I design and build. If
they can’t understand that... well, their problem...
That being said, I think that TLC could do a bit more to get adults into LEGO.
For example, take a look at their website. Is that for adults or children? I
mean: take a look at the online shop. Seriously, does every sentence have to end
with "!"? How many times can they use the words "awesome", "cool", "fantastic"
and so on... And what about the forums? Every message has to be checked by a
moderator. And the forums are still filled with "cooolllll!!!!", "gawwdd",
"awsom!" Well, I’m sure you get the point. Sometimes I wonder if TLC ever asked
adults what they felt about the website. I know what I feel: I’ve just entered
kiddy-land...
TLC needs to cater a bit more to their adult customers. For example: why did
they close the old Mindstorms forum? It was a nice forum where we discussed
things like adults. There was no moderation, and yet the tone was calm and
civilized. Now that’s gone, and there’s no way that I’m going to enter the new
Mindstorms forum - there’s nothing of interest there. And the trend goes on
with the NXTlog. You can hardly say anything in there. No links are allowed. All
text and pictures are moderated. I feel very... Well, almost unwelcome there.
Everything I do is checked and doublet checked. Posts take days, if not weeks,
to get published. And there’s no way to contact the moderators...
Sigh, sorry ‘bout that. I didn’t mean to rant. But these last few years I’ve
felt like TLC moved further and further away from me. They are all about the
kids now. And if that’s how others feel as well...? Well, I can easily
understand why they would feel that we AFOLs are playing with LEGO and being
childish...
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In lugnet.ambassadors, Scott Wardlaw wrote:
> The other day I got another "You still play with LEGO?". I replied with: "No, I
> design and build models made from LEGO." That didn't seem to help much.
>
> I'd like to start a list of ideas and suggestions on how we might improve how
> other adults view LEGO as a hobby. Any ideas?
>
> Something that I think would help is LEGO or LEGO branded items in the work
> place. Nothing cooky or over-done, but something that is detailed enough to
> have people ask "Wow, is that really made of LEGO?" I thought about making nice
> looking book ends for my text books or a business card holder.
>
> Of course, I'd also like to see some other things like a leather note pad with a
> subtle LEGO logo and other items used or worn in the work place.
>
> Thoughts? Any other ways to improve the hobby image of LEGO?
>
> Thanks,
> Scott
Hmm, perhaps it's the people I associate with or just something about my age but
I don't usually seem to have this problem. Most times when the subject of my
lego habits comes up the response is more in the "whoa sweet!" line, and maybe a
little envious. :)
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In lugnet.general, David Gregory wrote:
> Even if you only get a small token payment for a show, the concept of
> getting money for building with LEGOs seems to make the idea click in
> people's heads.
I don't generally mention payments that the club receives for shows because our
members aren't actually _paid_ to participate. We try to reimburse stuff like
parking and any applicable admission costs (though we always try to make sure we
get free tickets for attendees in addition to any appearance fees), but noone
actually pulls in money that they haven't already paid out of pocket.
What I do mention is the one paid commission that some of us took on a while
back, which was the Kellogg's Cereal City project. I try not to think too hard
about how little I got paid if you break it down by hour (I think I put in 14
days on that project, ranging from 6-12 hours each), but I keep photos of the
end result on my iPod so I can show them off whenever I need to help generate a
little respect. The other thing I keep on my iPod that gets regular viewing is
a video I shot at NMRA 2007. It was our club's biggest display ever (and that's
not counting all the other clubs that were involved), so I built a special
intermodal car that would _safely_ haul my camera around the layout, facing
inwards. We ran it as fast as we could and still be able to identify stuff
that's zipping past in the foreground, and it still runs 3-4 minutes for a
single circuit of the main loop. That, more than anything else, got some
respect from my coworkers.
> Sometimes I try to turn their questions back on them with something
> like, "You still watch football?"
Huh. I say something similar, but it's less a question starting with "you still
watch" and more a declaration starting with a one-syllable word that provides
some nice alliteration with the word "football". Besides, everyone knows that
beach volleyball is where it's at.
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In lugnet.general, Allan Johansen wrote:
> That being said, I think that TLC could do a bit more to get adults into
> LEGO.
TLC is still trying to come to grips with the fact that we _do_ still collect.
You'd think it would be a no-brainer. I mean, here's a company that leaves
bowls of bricks out on their conference tables that you are _encouraged_ to play
with during meetings (or so I'm told). This is a company where many
individuals, particularly the set designers and Master Builders, just build
random stuff for fun. This is a company that gets regular contact with adult
fans (even though they don't have a great track record with actually noticing
that fact). This is a company that consists largely of _adults_ who are
_fans_of_LEGO_. And this is a _time_ when ubergeeks have grown up, and toy
collecting has actually become something of a mainstream hobby. It simply
astonishes me that noone before Jake managed to figure out that 1+1=2.
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In lugnet.ambassadors, Scott Wardlaw wrote:
> The other day I got another "You still play with LEGO?". I replied with: "No, I
> design and build models made from LEGO." That didn't seem to help much.
>
> I'd like to start a list of ideas and suggestions on how we might improve how
> other adults view LEGO as a hobby. Any ideas?
>
> Something that I think would help is LEGO or LEGO branded items in the work
> place. Nothing cooky or over-done, but something that is detailed enough to
> have people ask "Wow, is that really made of LEGO?" I thought about making nice
> looking book ends for my text books or a business card holder.
>
> Of course, I'd also like to see some other things like a leather note pad with a
> subtle LEGO logo and other items used or worn in the work place.
>
> Thoughts? Any other ways to improve the hobby image of LEGO?
>
> Thanks,
> Scott
I think it may have a lot to do with your own feelings towards others. As I
read your post, I'm not sure of the tonal inflection of the person saying "you
still play with LEGO?"--is the inflection one of disgust, or one of excitement?
That in itself makes a big difference. As you are looking for ways to improve
the image, I would assume the tonal inflection is one of disgust, so to speak.
One of the first things I would try to notice of that particular type of
person--are they single, or a parent, and if a parent--what are their children
like? Often times, if you talk to a child (even bothering to get down on your
knees or down on one knee to talk to a child face-to-face, you will always get
the attention of the parent. If you can make a child smile, even show him/her a
few neat SNOT tricks with bricks (you can do a SNOT trick with 2 2x4's and 2
1x4's), you'll get that child so-wide eyed and excited, the parent cannot do
anything except smile and wonder--and you may even get the parent thinking about
things.
As a LEGO Brand Retail (part time) employee of almost seven years, much of my
AFOL involvement has served as a bonus, as there is definitely a bias of many
people I meet--being that they are guests/customers in a LEGO store. u
One of the best ways to improve the image of an AFOL is to be an inspiration,
not just by showing your models, but in talking to people, letting people touch
your creations, being positive.. let a child hold a solidly built MOC, put it in
his/her hands, inspire children to make something like your MOC at home. Give
building tips, such as SNOT, show how a building two studs deep is more sturdy
than a building one stud deep (and how you can recess windows back by a stud,
making it look more like a building). Those little bits of advice inspire young
builders to go home and try building more like "the pros".
(I do a lot of little tips and tricks to many younger builders at my store to
give that inspiration. Many times I'll get a "neat! I didn't even think about
that" from the parents. I think any decent parent always loves to see it when
the proverbial light bulb goes off in their child's head--and that right there
is one way to improve the AFOL image. Think about it. You as an AFOL, show
some child a way to do something. If you're with the parent, you can very well
inspire the child (and sometimes, the parent). That little advice you've given
them can very well stay with them for a while, and they'll remember you.
A story - After FLL in Atlanta, I was eating lunch with Joe Meno, Tommy
Armstrong, and two friends. A family with three boys were seated a table or two
over..on the table was a LEGO catalog, complete with the look of having been
thumbed through more than a few times. Of course, Tommy walked on over, noticed
the catalog, and gave them a few engraved bricks. Well, the excitement level of
the children went through the roof. A few weeks later, we saw them at the Yoda
build at the LEGO store. About 2-3 weeks ago, coming home from a LEGO store
event, I had my Green Grocer in the back of my car as I pulled into a Home Depot
to get some supplies. I came out, only to see a SUV next to mine, with the door
open and a few faces looking out the window, down into my car. Turns out..it
was the same family. As usual, the kids excitement was through the roof. I
almost felt bad for the parents, as the kids were probably talking about LEGO
stuff all the way home.
Now, that said, all that I've written thus far is skewed with a particular bias,
as those that I've met are already children and families that are familiar with
LEGO and enjoy it. So, it's not very hard to get them excited about the
product, as it's already there.
Providing inspiration for those who are not into LEGO building is much different
and a bit harder. In that case, pulling out a "That's made of LEGO?" creation
definitely helps--especially one that looks cool on a desk at work. What's
better is if you show an adult a creation that's not hard to build, and then
give a link to a picture site with more detailed pictures. You may find that
adult visiting the site and making his/her own desk creation from LEGO
bricks--and you may find that might be a key to getting a new AFOL to start
being creative and rediscovering his/her youth.
The key thing that I would say any AFOL needs to remember..if you can make
people smile by using LEGO pieces--it's a way to "improve" the AFOL image. And
above all else..smile when talking to the public, maintain a positive image, and
if a MOC breaks...it can (almost) always be put back together!
Scott
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In lugnet.general, David Laswell wrote:
> TLC is still trying to come to grips with the fact that we _do_ still
> collect. You'd think it would be a no-brainer.
> ...
> And this is a _time_ when ubergeeks have grown up, and toy collecting has
> actually become something of a mainstream hobby. It simply astonishes me
> that noone before Jake managed to figure out that 1+1=2.
I'm not sure that's really a fair assessment-- or, rather, the tone implies that
everyone else at Lego was clueless until Jake showed them how it's done. But
that's not really the case.
I think it was more true that certain groups within the company (Jake being one
of the ones we're the most familiar with) started to understand that the adult
community would be worth MARKETING to. And a few groups understood how to do
it, while others didn't. Adult fans were clearly known to the company already.
They even gave Gary Istok a quick mention in the _World_Of_LEGO_Toys_ book,
which came out in 1987. And that was a good 6 years before the alt.toys.lego
newsgroup appeared online, and LONG before there was as substantial of an adult
presence in the hobby.
But that started changing in 1999-- probably even in 1997 or 1998, since 1999
was the first time when LEGO Direct announced itself to the community. The goal
was clearly to begin communicating with the emerging adult hobbyist community,
and to see what was going on. I'm not sure who within the company started that
initiative, but clearly LEGO was paying attention.
From there, it took a few years for the company to figure out how to market to
us. Bulk bricks, UCS sets, LEGO Legends, etc. Some things did really well (Cafe
Corner, anyone?), while others didn't (various Legends sets, for example). It
took some time for the company to switch gears from being purely a toy company
for today's kids to being a product that spanned generations.
DaveE
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In lugnet.ambassadors, Scott Wardlaw wrote:
> The other day I got another "You still play with LEGO?". I replied with: "No, I
> design and build models made from LEGO." That didn't seem to help much.
>
> I'd like to start a list of ideas and suggestions on how we might improve how
> other adults view LEGO as a hobby. Any ideas?
I generally don't worry about it too much. Most people that I meet actually
don't find it that odd. If anything, they find it a quirky but acceptable
hobby. I actually get stranger reactions from people when I tell them that I
paint miniatures for historical war-games. At train shows I do occasionally get
"You *do* realized these are toys, right?", to which I reply "Yeah, but have you
seen the stuff those n-scale guys play with?", which usually earns me a smile or
a chuckle. I don't think I've ever met anyone who didn't accept my hobby, and
if I do, it's not likely I'll convince them of anything they don't want to
believe anyway.
-Elroy
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In lugnet.general, Dave Sterling wrote:
SNIPPY
> I ask them how much they spend per year on their main hobby be it
> hunting, fishing, etc. (since those hobbies are popular around here).
Then I ask them how much pain playing with Lego inflicts on wildlife and they
don't have an answer.... ;-)
(yeah, Lego isn't that good for the environment, I know)
Tim
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In lugnet.ambassadors, Scott Wardlaw wrote:
> Thoughts? Any other ways to improve the hobby image of LEGO?
Bring your minifigs to work!
I remember "Bring Your Minifig To Work Day - Dec. 13, 1996" If you search
Google Groups, you'll see my posting with the above title. I brought in 45
minifigs that day. :-)
Jeff
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In lugnet.ambassadors, Scott Wardlaw wrote:
> The other day I got another "You still play with LEGO?". I replied with: "No, I
> design and build models made from LEGO." That didn't seem to help much.
>
> I'd like to start a list of ideas and suggestions on how we might improve how
> other adults view LEGO as a hobby. Any ideas?
It's easy. When somebody asks, "You still play with LEGO?" you say, "Yes."
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In lugnet.ambassadors, Scott Wardlaw wrote:
> The other day I got another "You still play with LEGO?". I replied with: "No, I
> design and build models made from LEGO." That didn't seem to help much.
>
> I'd like to start a list of ideas and suggestions on how we might improve how
> other adults view LEGO as a hobby. Any ideas?
>
> Something that I think would help is LEGO or LEGO branded items in the work
> place. Nothing cooky or over-done, but something that is detailed enough to
> have people ask "Wow, is that really made of LEGO?" I thought about making nice
> looking book ends for my text books or a business card holder.
>
> Of course, I'd also like to see some other things like a leather note pad with a
> subtle LEGO logo and other items used or worn in the work place.
>
> Thoughts? Any other ways to improve the hobby image of LEGO?
>
> Thanks,
> Scott
The image of an adult playing, designing or building with legos will always be
what it is, regardless of how much it wants to be glorified as a design
specialty.
In and out of the professional environment.
We did some desk accesories for Lego in Mexico many years ago, and gave them
away at the toy fair. They were one of a kind; A pen holder, paper clip holder
and post-it note pad. the GM and marketing manager thought it was better to go
out and buy some cheap office item at the office depot stick a Lego decal and
give that instead of spending hours building them...
So, with that said... I think that the effort had been made, but 'Management'
though it was too nerdy to repeat for the next toy fair.
William
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In lugnet.ambassadors, Scott Wardlaw wrote:
> The other day I got another "You still play with LEGO?". I replied with: "No, I
> design and build models made from LEGO." That didn't seem to help much.
>
> I'd like to start a list of ideas and suggestions on how we might improve how
> other adults view LEGO as a hobby. Any ideas?
>
> Something that I think would help is LEGO or LEGO branded items in the work
> place. Nothing cooky or over-done, but something that is detailed enough to
> have people ask "Wow, is that really made of LEGO?" I thought about making nice
> looking book ends for my text books or a business card holder.
>
> Of course, I'd also like to see some other things like a leather note pad with a
> subtle LEGO logo and other items used or worn in the work place.
> Thanks,
> Scott
Thoughts? Any other ways to improve the hobby image of LEGO?
When I'm looking for Lego's at garage sales a lot of the people will say they
aren't selling them because their kids are still playing with them. I answer
that I understand since I'm still playing with them at 48 years of age. They
usually smile and either ask me what I build or leave it at that. I've run into
a few people that seem to think it's childish but I take pride in still being in
touch with my inner child. If you show that you're are okay with playing with
Lego's as an adult most people will respect that. The ones that don't, have
probably never played with Lego and will never understand.
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In lugnet.general, Tim David wrote:
> (yeah, Lego isn't that good for the environment, I know)
Indeed. They rendered the cypress tree extinct, after all.
Cheers
Richie Dulin
CO Legeaux
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In lugnet.ambassadors, Scott Wardlaw wrote:
> The other day I got another "You still play with LEGO?". I replied with: "No, I
> design and build models made from LEGO." That didn't seem to help much.
>
> I'd like to start a list of ideas and suggestions on how we might improve how
> other adults view LEGO as a hobby.
What on Earth for?
I can't say I've ever found how other adults view my hobby to be a problem.
I don't go out of my way to tell people what I do with my spare time. If they do
find out, I just shrug it off with 'everyone needs a hobby' or something.
Whether or not they accept it, it's no skin off my nose. I don't feel the need
to be accepted by everyone I meet. What's the worst thing that could happen due
to someone's non-acceptance?
>
> Something that I think would help is LEGO or LEGO branded items in the work
> place. Nothing cooky or over-done, but something that is detailed enough to
> have people ask "Wow, is that really made of LEGO?" I thought about making nice
> looking book ends for my text books or a business card holder.
>
> Of course, I'd also like to see some other things like a leather note pad with a
> subtle LEGO logo and other items used or worn in the work place.
If you think it's important to advertise your hobby to all and sundry, knock
yourself out, but look around first and notice how much your co-workers
proselytise about their hobbies.
> Thoughts? Any other ways to improve the hobby image of LEGO?
Stop being such a wanker about it?
Allister
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In lugnet.ambassadors, Scott Wardlaw wrote:
> The other day I got another "You still play with LEGO?". I replied with: "No, I
> design and build models made from LEGO." That didn't seem to help much.
>
> I'd like to start a list of ideas and suggestions on how we might improve how
> other adults view LEGO as a hobby.
What on Earth for?
I can't say I've ever found how other adults view my hobby to be a problem.
I don't go out of my way to tell people what I do with my spare time. If they do
find out, I just shrug it off with 'everyone needs a hobby' or something.
Whether or not they accept it, it's no skin off my nose. I don't feel the need
to be accepted by everyone I meet. What's the worst thing that could happen due
to someone's non-acceptance?
>
> Something that I think would help is LEGO or LEGO branded items in the work
> place. Nothing cooky or over-done, but something that is detailed enough to
> have people ask "Wow, is that really made of LEGO?" I thought about making nice
> looking book ends for my text books or a business card holder.
>
> Of course, I'd also like to see some other things like a leather note pad with a
> subtle LEGO logo and other items used or worn in the work place.
If you think it's important to advertise your hobby to all and sundry, knock
yourself out, but look around first and notice how much your co-workers
proselytise about their hobbies.
> Thoughts? Any other ways to improve the hobby image of LEGO?
Stop being such a wanker about it?
Allister
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In lugnet.general, Richie Dulin wrote:
> In lugnet.general, Tim David wrote:
>
> > (yeah, Lego isn't that good for the environment, I know)
>
>
> Indeed. They rendered the cypress tree extinct, after all.
>
> Cheers
>
> Richie Dulin
> CO Legeaux
??????
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Good thread with a lot of responses I relate to. I’ll tag on Dave’s since he
scratched the most on what I wanted to add...
In lugnet.general, David Eaton wrote:
(snip)
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Drawing parallels to other hobbies, however, is a bit simpler without visual
aids-- there are a lot of modeling hobbies out there, like model railroading,
or modelers who make model WWII fighter planes, or model cars or some such.
Generally, I find that that’s enough to make people say “Oh yeah! I guess it’s
kind of similar to XXX, and that’s not so unusual.”
|
The comparison to model railroading is one I have long used to describe our
hobby. Even as a teenager I would point out it is “normal” to imagine old men
setting up HO trains on a table in their garage or basement. That image often
clues the outsiders in to some legitimacy here, though few really get it unless
you show them models or pictures.
(I currently have pics of last year’s pirate MOCs at my desk at work... though
my excited retellings of how the fleet was used for a wargame where there was
MUCH BLOOD AND AWESOME SHARK ATTACKS!!!...(ahem)...typically causes my
coworkers to slink back to their desks and whisper to themselves, “yeah he still
plays with Lego, AND he’s insane.”)
| |
The other thing you get all the time is that you’ve “got too much time on your
hands”.
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I’ve missed Jake’s and others’ reference to this, but I wholeheartedly agree I
hear this far too often. It doesn’t help that some of my other activities (game
design, writing, role-playing, etc.) are also creative hobbies that REQUIRE lots
of time on my hands. As it is, I never find the time I’d really like to have.
In the end, I just chalk such comments up to people inwardly wishing they had
such time or such fun in their lives. This reasoning explains why the same
co-workers say I have too much time on my hands when I mention going out to a
dance club on a Tuesday or spending a week in Venice just because I could...
Them saying it, if you read between the lines, is really them saying they wish
they could have as much fun in their lives. If they are inwardly recognizing a
weekend with Lego is as much fun as a week in Italy, then I figure they are
getting my point after all... :)
-Hendo
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In lugnet.general, Tommy Armstrong wrote:
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In lugnet.general, Richie Dulin wrote:
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In lugnet.general, Tim David wrote:
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(yeah, Lego isn’t that good for the environment, I know)
|
Indeed. They rendered the cypress tree extinct, after all.
Cheers
Richie Dulin
CO Legeaux
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??????
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Tommy, I believe the joke is in reference to the extinction of this tree:
which was last seen in the wild in 2001 and now exists only in captivity.
-Hendo
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In lugnet.general, Jeffrey Findley wrote:
> In lugnet.ambassadors, Scott Wardlaw wrote:
> > Thoughts? Any other ways to improve the hobby image of LEGO?
>
> Bring your minifigs to work!
>
> I remember "Bring Your Minifig To Work Day - Dec. 13, 1996" If you search
> Google Groups, you'll see my posting with the above title. I brought in 45
> minifigs that day. :-)
>
> Jeff
I've had three Vikings and two Town guys with a box truck I built with my
company's logo on it on my desk for a year or so now. Starting about a month
ago, a co-worker started bringing in little green plastic army men (non-Lego) so
she could stage mini-battle scenes around the office. Currently her men are
holding the town figs hostage on her desk and my murdered Vikings have mutated
into a giant ViKING beast. I've threatened to bring in all my figs and surround
her desk with catapults and hang space fighters from the ceiling........
....uh, but I don't recommend this sort of behavior for those still worried
about other co-workers thinking you still play.....
-H.
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>
> Stop being such a wanker about it?
>
> Allister
Ouch, but taking your own advise, I shouldn't care what you say...right?
Actually, I don't loose any sleep over anyone thinking that I'm childish or odd
in some way because LEGO is a hobby of mine.
The purpose of my post was to spur creativity in the realm of ideas (both for us
and TLC) to better market to adults, and also for the possible creation of more
sets and products geared toward adults.
I don't think any of us go door to door asking people to become a member of the
holy LEGO club, but most of us would like to have our hobby respected. Just as
an office poster of a college football team encourages conversation; I'd like to
see the same from a LEGO poster. You don't see posters of LEGO that are geared
toward's adults though. While a poster of a real, hard working football team
brings feelings of respect; a four color poster of a kid playing with a toy in
an imaginary scene does not.
If TLC made a sophisticated full color poster of something out of Indiana Jones,
Star Wars, or Batman wouldn't you add one to your next order?
Scott W.
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In lugnet.general, Scott Wardlaw wrote:
> >
> > Stop being such a wanker about it?
> >
> > Allister
>
> Ouch, but taking your own advise, I shouldn't care what you say...right?
You learn fast.
> The purpose of my post was to spur creativity in the realm of ideas (both for us
> and TLC) to better market to adults, and also for the possible creation of more
> sets and products geared toward adults.
That's not something I'm interested in. I make my preferences known by buying
the sets I like, and not buying the ones I don't like.
> Just as
> an office poster of a college football team encourages conversation; I'd like to
> see the same from a LEGO poster. You don't see posters of LEGO that are geared
> toward's adults though. While a poster of a real, hard working football team
> brings feelings of respect; a four color poster of a kid playing with a toy in
> an imaginary scene does not.
I'm unlikely to do either.
And I have no idea what posters have to do with this.
> If TLC made a sophisticated full color poster of something out of Indiana Jones,
> Star Wars, or Batman wouldn't you add one to your next order?
I'm not into Lego for the posters, so no.
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In lugnet.ambassadors, Scott Wardlaw wrote:
| |
The other day I got another “You still play with LEGO?”. I replied with: “No,
I design and build models made from LEGO.” That didn’t seem to help much.
I’d like to start a list of ideas and suggestions on how we might improve how
other adults view LEGO as a hobby. Any ideas?
|
I think it’s all in your attitude. And by “you” I don’t just mean you, Scott,
but AFOLs in general. If you talk about it with confidence and pride, people
tend to respect that. If you talk about it with any timidity or shame in your
voice, however, people pick up on that too.
In the past year or two I’ve been totally “out of the closet” about LEGO...
- I have LEGO on my desk at work - currently a loop of LEGO train track with a LEGO train on it. In the past I’ve had buildings and the remote control dinosaur. When people come visit my office they often play with them, and I explain about my club, BayLUG, and train shows and my blog, Brickpile.
- I have a license plate on my car that says “I (heart) LEGO” (California lets you put certain symbols on custom plates).
- I carry Brickpile business cards around and hand them out all the time.
- LEGO is all over my Facebook pages, and Brickpile entries and Flickr uploads show up on my FriendFeed.
- People send me links to LEGO news online, like the 50th anniversary thing or the minifig 30th anniversary, both this year.
What can LEGO do? Well, it would be nice to offer more public acknowledgement
of AFOLs. I think their existing site should be kid-oriented, but they could
create a new adult site (afol.lego.com or something like that) with forums and
stuff that would be more geared toward adults. Make it ages 15 and up or
something reasonable, since TFOLs (T for Teen) tend to fall through the cracks a
lot.
But that said, we need to recognize that it’s important in marketing to maintain
a primary focus on your target audience. I think that’s why adults get so
little public attention from LEGO. I think it’s why girls get so little
attention too; they see their demographic as boys of certain age groups, as
that’s who buys (or asks their parents to buy) the most product. So, we
shouldn’t expect a lot of adult-oriented marketing from LEGO. I think their
current practice of supporting the brick conventions and having certain
adult-targeted sets is probably enough.
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Simple.
reply with:
"I used to do lots of crack, and now i build with Lego!"
Steve
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In lugnet.ambassadors, Scott Wardlaw wrote:
> The other day I got another "You still play with LEGO?". I replied with: "No, I
> design and build models made from LEGO." That didn't seem to help much.
>
> I'd like to start a list of ideas and suggestions on how we might improve how
> other adults view LEGO as a hobby. Any ideas?
Wait, I reconsidered my answer to this... get yourself one paid project under
your belt, and then you can tell people you get paid to do it. Their attitude
will instantly change from mocking to jealously.
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In lugnet.general, David Eaton wrote:
> In lugnet.general, David Laswell wrote:
> > TLC is still trying to come to grips with the fact that we _do_ still
> > collect. You'd think it would be a no-brainer.
> > ...
> > And this is a _time_ when ubergeeks have grown up, and toy collecting has
> > actually become something of a mainstream hobby. It simply astonishes me
> > that noone before Jake managed to figure out that 1+1=2.
>
> I'm not sure that's really a fair assessment-- or, rather, the tone implies that
> everyone else at Lego was clueless until Jake showed them how it's done. But
> that's not really the case.
>
> I think it was more true that certain groups within the company (Jake being one
> of the ones we're the most familiar with) started to understand that the adult
> community would be worth MARKETING to. And a few groups understood how to do
> it, while others didn't. Adult fans were clearly known to the company already.
> They even gave Gary Istok a quick mention in the _World_Of_LEGO_Toys_ book,
> which came out in 1987. And that was a good 6 years before the alt.toys.lego
> newsgroup appeared online, and LONG before there was as substantial of an adult
> presence in the hobby.
>
> But that started changing in 1999-- probably even in 1997 or 1998, since 1999
> was the first time when LEGO Direct announced itself to the community. The goal
> was clearly to begin communicating with the emerging adult hobbyist community,
> and to see what was going on. I'm not sure who within the company started that
> initiative, but clearly LEGO was paying attention.
>
> From there, it took a few years for the company to figure out how to market to
> us. Bulk bricks, UCS sets, LEGO Legends, etc. Some things did really well (Cafe
> Corner, anyone?), while others didn't (various Legends sets, for example). It
> took some time for the company to switch gears from being purely a toy company
> for today's kids to being a product that spanned generations.
>
> DaveE
This is a little off-topic, but I gotta agree with Mr. Eaton here. I don't
think it's fair to blast LEGO for "not catering to the adult market". If we do
a real quick review of sets geared more towards adults in the past 5-6 years I
come up with a great list.
10020 Santa Fe Super Chief
10025 Santa Fe Cars I
10022 Santa Fe Cars II
10182 Cafe Corner
10181 Eiffel Tower
10189 Taj Mahal
8275 Motorized Bulldozer
10177 Boeing 787 Dreamliner
10143 UCS Death Star II
10188 Death Star
10179 UCS Millennium Falcon
10133 BNSF GP-38 Locomotive
10152 Maersk Sealand
10185 Green Grocer
10190 Market Street
8527 Mindstorms NXT
...and the list goes on and on
I think LEGO has done a phenomenal job of catering to the adult fan since at
least 2002 (if not before) and they continue to get better each year. Like Dave
mentions, they had to transition between being a "toy company" to appealing to a
wide age range while still maintaining their core customer group which is
children. All of the community involvement initiatives have been great and have
really helped to improve the community and their community development team
actively listens to our concerns and ideas. I don't know of any other toy
company that has this relationship with its fans.
Now I'm not going to go all fanboy and say that the situation is perfect as
there is always room for improvement. However, I genuinely believe that LEGO is
striving for continuous improvement and sustainable improvement in marketing to
and developing for AFoL's. They now have a business model that allows them to
market to children as well as adults...and (here's the key point)...still remain
profitable. This year was a great year for LEGO and I am even more excited for
2009 based on the "rumor mill".
-Dave
ToT-LUG
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In lugnet.general, William R. Ward wrote:
| |
- People send me links to LEGO news online, like the 50th anniversary thing or the minifig 30th anniversary, both this year.
|
This is so true Bill! Just this morning, one of the girls in our finance
department stopped by my office to show me a link to a LEGO movie she had found
online. I get stuff like that forwarded to me all the time from various
co-workers. Even our upper-management guys send me links or magazine articles
when they see something business related to LEGO.
| |
What can LEGO do? Well, it would be nice to offer more public
acknowledgement of AFOLs. I think their existing site should be
kid-oriented, but they could create a new adult site (afol.lego.com or
something like that) with forums and stuff that would be more geared toward
adults. Make it ages 15 and up or something reasonable, since TFOLs (T for
Teen) tend to fall through the cracks a lot.
|
This would be cool, but isn’t this kinda what LUGNET is supposed to be? At the
train roundtable at Brickworld we discussed some of the issues with LUGNET that
“drive people away”. Things that have been hashed and re-hashed here numerous
times. What we came up with is that there is a wealth of information at LUGNET
that we do not want to lose. What we didn’t come up with was a way to preserve
that and still migrate to something new. I think we need to see a unification
of the online community, not the fracturing that has gone on with the many
spin-off sites targeting specific themes. Just my $0.02.
| |
But that said, we need to recognize that it’s important in marketing to
maintain a primary focus on your target audience. I think that’s why adults
get so little public attention from LEGO. I think it’s why girls get so
little attention too; they see their demographic as boys of certain age
groups, as that’s who buys (or asks their parents to buy) the most product.
So, we shouldn’t expect a lot of adult-oriented marketing from LEGO. I think
their current practice of supporting the brick conventions and having certain
adult-targeted sets is probably enough.
|
I agree 92% with this. I think LEGO does a lot for us now and that completely
rocks. In addition, LEGO markets actively to the group that is most profitable
right now...young boys age X to Y. However, additional marketing to females and
adults wouldn’t necessarily hurt. For adults, it doesn’t require anything more
than some direct e-mail campaigns or a quick mailer geared to adults. They
could even pull their mailing list from the people that registered at
conventions. The female community is a different story. LEGO needs to market
to them as it is an (as of yet) untapped goldmine. The FFoL roundtable at
Brickworld discussed this some and I’ll ask my wife to comment here when she has
some time.
-Dave
ToT-LUG
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In lugnet.ambassadors, Scott Wardlaw wrote:
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Hi,
Thanks for bringing this up, it's nice to see some action on Lugnet again.
It's become a lot easier fo me to be be accepted as a LEGO builder now than when
I was a teen or in my early 20s. Partly that's because my peers are older and
aren't all that concerned about being cool and doing the fasionable thing as
they were. But partly, I think it's also that LEGO itself has become a little
more accepted than it was before. Along with Starwars, video games, and so
forth, the post-baby boomer generation has embraced, toys and playing as
something that grown ups can do. Of course it's not going to be as cool as
skydiving or whatever, but being an AFOL is a lot easier for most of us socially
than it was being the kid who played Dungeons and Dragons back in high school.
Of course when I tell people I build LEGO, there's often a sense of amusement,
but it's often accompanied by a positive curiosity. I don't remember in my
post-college life that anyone gave me a really hard time about it aside from my
parents, but even they're used to it now. I'll bring it up on a first, second,
or third date, and if that alone scares someone away its their loss. But most
women I meet seem more intrigued than turned off. I met a guy at a wedding last
year who looked at me as if he had misheard me, but I also met other people at
the same wedding who thought it was kind of cool and original.
When explaining your hobby, especially is you find yourself on the defensive,
I think it is important to emphasize the creative element. And think about it,
what outlets do most adults have for being creative, aside from cooking and sex?
Some play a musical instrument, some engage in crafts, but most spend more time
watching TV, socialising, and working out or playing sports.
So next time someone looks at you strangely about it, make a comparison to model
trains, painting, or knitting or something.
Of course we use LEGO differently than kids do, but there is a level of fantasy
in many AFOL's MOCs - and that doesn't have to be a bad thing.
A bit of playing is healthy for all ages (and as I said, I think our generation
is beginning to accept that).
TLG is beginning to release sets that are tailored to older builders. But I
think that it will ultimately be up to the AFOL community to raise awareness of
LEGO as being the one toy you never have to grow out of.
Magnus
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> In lugnet.ambassadors, Bob Parker wrote:
>
> TARGET MARKETS
> Because you fail at demographics
Ouch again! Bob does bring up a good point (even if it was an obvious one.) Kids are the primary market for TLC, so it’s a good thing that no one has suggested that this change.
Leg Godt, (that means Play Well, in case you forgot)
Scott
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In lugnet.general, Dave Sterling wrote:
| |
In lugnet.general, William R. Ward wrote:
| |
- People send me links to LEGO news online, like the 50th anniversary thing or the minifig 30th anniversary, both this year.
|
This is so true Bill! Just this morning, one of the girls in our finance
department stopped by my office to show me a link to a LEGO movie she had
found online. I get stuff like that forwarded to me all the time from
various co-workers. Even our upper-management guys send me links or magazine
articles when they see something business related to LEGO.
|
... and 50% of the time, it’s a link to Amy Hughes’ church.
Well, except for one guy who sends me fresh and new content.
Steve
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Steve Bliss wrote:
> In lugnet.general, Dave Sterling wrote:
> > In lugnet.general, William R. Ward wrote:
> > > * People send me links to LEGO news online, like the 50th
> > > anniversary thing or the minifig 30th anniversary, both this year.
> >
> > This is so true Bill! Just this morning, one of the girls in our
> > finance department stopped by my office to show me a link to a LEGO
> > movie she had found online. I get stuff like that forwarded to me
> > all the time from various co-workers. Even our upper-management
> > guys send me links or magazine articles when they see something
> > business related to LEGO.
>
> ... and 50% of the time, it's a link to Amy Hughes' church.
Yea, I've been sent that link a few times myself and had a neighbor describe
the church also (though that neighbor was also using Bricklink before I
shared that I was into LEGO).
I have actually not yet had anyone react badly (even cashiers in the store
when I explain why I'm purchasing a bunch of sets), though I still tend to
be private about my hobby interests (except for model railroading and
caving).
Frank
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In lugnet.general, Bob Parker wrote:
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In lugnet.ambassadors, Scott Wardlaw wrote:
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An excellent thought, Bob.
Motivational posters are a great way to extend LEGO’s respectability with
adults.
Imagine a poster of a wall of white 2x4 LEGO bricks, with a single gold brick in
the middle, with the caption “...because you don’t have to be just another brick
in the wall”.
Imagine a poster of a panorama of a LEGO train club layout built by many members
with the caption “Working together building community”.
Imagine poster of a pile of LEGO bricks with the caption “It can be what you
want it to be.”
The possibilities are nigh endless.
Again, a great thought (and a nicely humorous example as well).
Cheers
Richie Dulin
CO Legeaux
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In lugnet.general, Bob Parker wrote:
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In lugnet.ambassadors, Scott Wardlaw wrote:
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An excellent thought, Bob.
Motivational posters are a great way to extend LEGO’s respectability with
adults.
Imagine a poster of a wall of white 2x4 LEGO bricks, with a single gold brick in
the middle, with the caption “...because you don’t have to be just another brick
in the wall”.
Imagine a poster of a panorama of a LEGO train club layout built by many members
with the caption “Working together building community”.
Imagine poster of a pile of LEGO bricks with the caption “It can be what you
want it to be.”
The possibilities are nigh endless.
Again, a great thought (and a nicely humorous example as well).
Cheers
Richie Dulin
CO Legeaux
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In lugnet.general, William R. Ward wrote:
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What can LEGO do? Well, it would be nice to offer more public
acknowledgement of AFOLs. I think their existing site should be
kid-oriented, but they could create a new adult site (afol.lego.com or
something like that) with forums and stuff that would be more geared toward
adults. Make it ages 15 and up or something reasonable, since TFOLs (T for
Teen) tend to fall through the cracks a lot.
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You mean like Legofan?
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In lugnet.general, William R. Ward wrote:
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What can LEGO do? Well, it would be nice to offer more public
acknowledgement of AFOLs. I think their existing site should be
kid-oriented, but they could create a new adult site (afol.lego.com or
something like that) with forums and stuff that would be more geared toward
adults. Make it ages 15 and up or something reasonable, since TFOLs (T for
Teen) tend to fall through the cracks a lot.
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You mean like Legofan?
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In lugnet.ambassadors, Scott Wardlaw wrote:
> The other day I got another "You still play with LEGO?". I replied with: "No, I
> design and build models made from LEGO." That didn't seem to help much.
If people can't accept your hobby who cares, if they belittle you for it their
not worth knowing, everybody has different habits/hobbies/interests so why be
concerned with what others think if you are happy doing what you do just do it.
To be honest I can't stand watching football or any other team sport as I see it
as a quasi nationalistic wank that is used more as a medium for advertising to
the general proleterate than the actual game but I don't chastise people for
having an interst in it.
> I'd like to start a list of ideas and suggestions on how we might improve how
> other adults view LEGO as a hobby. Any ideas?
For starters have AFOL websites that cater to adults and not indulge in so
called Family Friendly ethos and behavioural standards imposed by Political
Correctness Nazi's. Very few websites cater to AFOLs as Adults, Stajinaria.net
along with a few Flickr groups do cater to Adults and we can behave however we
like be it offensive, vulgar or tame but you can be an adult and not worry about
"careful the kids might see it" attitude . The AFOL community in general suffers
from so called self appointed anal retentive tools that call themselves
community leaders, they constantly bask in their own self importance their
titles are akin to being a General in the Costa Rican Army, these people need to
loosen up and stop pushing their closed minded/family friendly/right wing
christian ethos and let AFOL sites cater to Adults instead of having everything
go through a censorship board to make sure its in compliance with a G rating.
> Something that I think would help is LEGO or LEGO branded items in the work
> place. Nothing cooky or over-done, but something that is detailed enough to
> have people ask "Wow, is that really made of LEGO?" I thought about making nice
> looking book ends for my text books or a business card holder.
>
> Of course, I'd also like to see some other things like a leather note pad with a
> subtle LEGO logo and other items used or worn in the work place.
Lego's core business is to make construction toys mainly for boys, we as adults
choose to use it as a creative medium for a hobby and relaxtion, to provide
items that cater to a minute percentage makes no business sense and would be a
waste of time and money. Make your own posters of your MOC's to show people what
you can make might be an idea.
>
> Thoughts? Any other ways to improve the hobby image of LEGO?
> Just be happy doing what you do and don't be concerned with opinions of disinterested individuals.
> Scott.
Regards David
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In lugnet.general, Dave Sterling wrote:
> This is a little off-topic, but I gotta agree with Mr. Eaton here. I don't
> think it's fair to blast LEGO for "not catering to the adult market". If we do
> a real quick review of sets geared more towards adults in the past 5-6 years I
> come up with a great list.
>
> 10020 Santa Fe Super Chief
> 10025 Santa Fe Cars I
> 10022 Santa Fe Cars II
> 10182 Cafe Corner
> 10181 Eiffel Tower
> 10189 Taj Mahal
> 8275 Motorized Bulldozer
> 10177 Boeing 787 Dreamliner
> 10143 UCS Death Star II
> 10188 Death Star
> 10179 UCS Millennium Falcon
> 10133 BNSF GP-38 Locomotive
> 10152 Maersk Sealand
> 10185 Green Grocer
> 10190 Market Street
> 8527 Mindstorms NXT
>
> ...and the list goes on and on
>
> I think LEGO has done a phenomenal job of catering to the adult fan since at
> least 2002 (if not before) and they continue to get better each year. Like Dave
> mentions, they had to transition between being a "toy company" to appealing to a
> wide age range while still maintaining their core customer group which is
> children. All of the community involvement initiatives have been great and have
> really helped to improve the community and their community development team
> actively listens to our concerns and ideas. I don't know of any other toy
> company that has this relationship with its fans.
>
> Now I'm not going to go all fanboy and say that the situation is perfect as
> there is always room for improvement. However, I genuinely believe that LEGO is
> striving for continuous improvement and sustainable improvement in marketing to
> and developing for AFoL's. They now have a business model that allows them to
> market to children as well as adults...and (here's the key point)...still remain
> profitable. This year was a great year for LEGO and I am even more excited for
> 2009 based on the "rumor mill".
>
> -Dave
> ToT-LUG
To be honest, in my opinion there’s nothing particularly "adult" about those
sets - they’re just models (albeit rather impressive models) with a high brick
count and an even higher price tag.
What I would really like to see, is the possibility of making bulk buys directly
from TLC. Why does TLC not cater to those AFOLs who dreams of building large
models? Why do I have to rely on Bricklink to make bulk buys? Think of the
models one could build if system bricks were available at production price plus
packaging and shipping? I know I would be spending a lot more money on LEGO if
that was possible...
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> Think of the
> models one could build if system bricks were available at production price plus
> packaging and shipping? I know I would be spending a lot more money on LEGO if
> that was possible...
YES but LEGO wouldn't be around if they don't make some profits right? How at
production cost would they survive.
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In lugnet.general, Michael Shiels wrote:
> > Think of the models one could build if system bricks were
> > available at production price plus packaging and shipping?
Well, if you include a margin for profit (which does seem fair), this *does*
exist - it's called Pick-a-Brick, and you can do it on-line via S@H. Yes, I
*know* it doesn't have all the elements, or all the colors... but it has loads
more than previously available. When I wanted to build a large-scale mechanical
calculator out of LEGO, I figured it out and realized that the design would need
more than 300 1x4 studded beams... and I could actually purchase them, in bulk,
from S@H at lower prices than existed on Bricklink.
I'd love it if I could request custom runs of parts in the colors I choose, and
I'm sure if I could purchase enough to make it economical, TLG would probably do
it (why do you think the Maersk ship existed?). The problem is then an economy
of scale, and it's pretty impressive that they can scale it down to selling
individual elements via mailorder the way they already do.
--
Brian Davis
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In lugnet.ambassadors, Scott Wardlaw wrote:
> The other day I got another "You still play with LEGO?". I replied with: "No, I
> design and build models made from LEGO." That didn't seem to help much.
Let's take a moment to ask, what's wrong with "Play"? Why do we get so
defensive about it? None of my friends who play basketball feel the need to
qualify "Play ball" with some explaination about how they "design and carryout
team sports strategies in a competative arena".
I, like many here, get this alot, I always reply, cheefully "Oh yes". I don't
bother to clarify that I "build and design". As far as I'm concerned, I'm 26
years old and not ashamed that I enjoy playing with LEGO. People who see my
MOC's can call it playing or "designing". The distinction up to them and is
largely meaningless, except when we take offense over it.
When someone inquires if I realize that they are toys, I give the same response.
If someone is genuinely interested, then I will explain about what I do, show
them websites, invite them to a NILTC show, etc. For sarcastic folks, I refuse
to acknoledge their sarcasam, and simply apply in the cheerfull affirmative.
> I'd like to start a list of ideas and suggestions on how we might improve how
> other adults view LEGO as a hobby. Any ideas?
Adult LEGO is a relatively small niche hobby community, that attracts a specific
group of people. Just tell what you do unashamedly.
> Something that I think would help is LEGO or LEGO branded items in the work
> place. Nothing cooky or over-done, but something that is detailed enough to
> have people ask "Wow, is that really made of LEGO?"
A few toys on my desk are enough to give those who want to know, a reason to
ask.
>
> Thoughts? Any other ways to improve the hobby image of LEGO?
I think that shows like the one my club (www.niltc.org) does are a great way to
show off LEGO as an adult hobby, but again I have never felt the need to defend
LEGO to the naysaysers. Just do what you do, and enjoy it. Those who are going
to understand, will, and those who won't, won't.
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In lugnet.general, Michael Shiels wrote:
> YES but LEGO wouldn't be around if they don't make some profits right? How at
> production cost would they survive.
I didn’t say that they should stop selling the normal sets. I just asked for an
additional service above and beyond that...
But of course you have a point regarding the need for profit. Perhaps such an
offer should be available only to certain clubs in order to limit the impact on
the market? Or something like that...
In lugnet.general, Brian Davis wrote:
> Well, if you include a margin for profit (which does seem fair), this *does*
> exist - it's called Pick-a-Brick, and you can do it on-line via S@H. Yes, I
> *know* it doesn't have all the elements, or all the colors... but it has loads
> more than previously available. When I wanted to build a large-scale mechanical
> calculator out of LEGO, I figured it out and realized that the design would need
> more than 300 1x4 studded beams... and I could actually purchase them, in bulk,
> from S@H at lower prices than existed on Bricklink.
In my experience, Pick-a-Brick, and by extension the LEGO Factory, are crazily
expensive compared to Bricklink. When I build a model in LDD I usually end up
buying the bricks through Bricklink, thus cutting the price in half...
But perhaps it’s just me having a love for the wrong bricks...?
> I'd love it if I could request custom runs of parts in the colors I choose, and
> I'm sure if I could purchase enough to make it economical, TLG would probably do
> it (why do you think the Maersk ship existed?). The problem is then an economy
> of scale, and it's pretty impressive that they can scale it down to selling
> individual elements via mailorder the way they already do.
Would they? Maybe...
In truth, I’m not entirely convinced. As has already been pointed out, TLC seems
to have been somewhat slow when it comes to dealing with AFOLs. Perhaps it’s not
a question of whether or not there’s a profit to be made, but rather the simple
fact that they haven’t thought about it? Or, at least, haven’t figured out how
to do it in a viable, and profitable, way...?
Ahh well, what do I know? I’m not, by any means, an expert on the inner workings
of TLC...
... but I can hope, right?
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In lugnet.general, David Eaton wrote:
> I'm not sure that's really a fair assessment-- or, rather, the tone implies
> that everyone else at Lego was clueless until Jake showed them how it's
> done. But that's not really the case.
>
> I think it was more true that certain groups within the company (Jake being
> one of the ones we're the most familiar with) started to understand that the
> adult community would be worth MARKETING to. And a few groups understood
> how to do it, while others didn't. Adult fans were clearly known to the
> company already. They even gave Gary Istok a quick mention in the
> _World_Of_LEGO_Toys_ book, which came out in 1987. And that was a good 6
> years before the alt.toys.lego newsgroup appeared online, and LONG before
> there was as substantial of an adult presence in the hobby.
But that's exactly the point. It's not that they weren't aware of us at all.
It's that they thought we were an inconsequencial fraction of the total market,
and thus not worth catering to at all. And strictly in terms of the total
customer base, that's very likely true. When you start to consider one AFOL who
spends upwards of $1000 per year vs. one child who might receive the odd $10
LEGO set as a gift, those assumptions don't really square up. When you consider
how the much-lamented "juniorization" lines up with the period of time in which
The LEGO Company had not one but _two_ years that showed a net annual loss
(something which not even the color change managed to do), it speaks to the fact
that they need to develop their product with both halves of their market base in
mind.
Now, you can say that there are other individuals within the combined employee
base that were instrumental in getting this change in mindset to occur, and a
year ago I probably would have agreed. But then I watched that video of a
presentation Jake did after leaving to start his own company. Two key things
stood out. One was the "80-20" rule, where his favorite company lawyer said
that 20% of the time they get someone who asks a question, gets a simple answer,
and goes back to whence they came. The other 80% of the time was Jake. Not
people _like_ Jake. Just Jake. Asking questions that really challenged the
status quo, rather than simply asking how to make sure he was conforming to it.
The other thing that stood out was the time he said he took three key people to
what I'm guessing was Brickfest. One was said lawyer (who was flipping out
about all the blatant trademark violations and such), one was Kjeld Kirk (who
was geeked about the idea of doing _more_ events like that), and the third was
the marketing director (who couldn't even figure out what he was seeing). So
again, it's not that they weren't aware of us, it was that they'd simply
dismissed us as not being an important demographic. We are. We're not _the_
important demographic by any means, but in many ways we're closer to both
demographics than they are. We _are_ one of the two major demographics, and
with all the shows that AFOLs do around the world, we're likely in regular
direct contact with the other one more than anyone within the company.
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In lugnet.general, Dave Sterling wrote:
> This is a little off-topic, but I gotta agree with Mr. Eaton here. I don't
> think it's fair to blast LEGO for "not catering to the adult market". If we
> do a real quick review of sets geared more towards adults in the past 5-6
> years I come up with a great list.
Well, let's check the math on this, shall we? Now, you'll have to excuse me,
but I'm going to reorder your list by year of release, because it'll help me to
make my point, but I will not be omitting anything:
> 10189 Taj Mahal
> 10188 Death Star
> 10185 Green Grocer
2008
> 10190 Market Street
> 10182 Cafe Corner
> 10181 Eiffel Tower
> 10179 UCS Millennium Falcon
> 8275 Motorized Bulldozer
2007
> 10177 Boeing 787 Dreamliner
> 8527 Mindstorms NXT
2006
> 10143 UCS Death Star II
2005
> 10152 Maersk Sealand
> 10133 BNSF GP-38 Locomotive
2004
> 10025 Santa Fe Cars I
> 10022 Santa Fe Cars II
> 10020 Santa Fe Super Chief
2002
And according to his blog:
> Jake joins The LEGO Company
~2001
Notice something there? Namely, that _every_ set that you listed was released
after Jake joined the company. Pay extra attention to the bottom four on the
list. All four of those models, as I understand it, were designed by fans,
meaning they had little to no lead time on the set development compared to what
they normally need. When you consider that, it took them _THREE_YEARS_ to
finally release a set from your list that was actually developed from scratch
in-house, and one year beyond that to develop one that was actually designed
with AFOLs in mind (the Maersk Sealand was designed specifically for the Maersk
company at their behest, and only offered up to us because they were trying to
get rid of all the remaining Maersk-blue ABS pellets).
Now, to be fair, you did miss a few, like the original OMG set (10030 UCS ISD,
2002, for which the only design directive was "make it cool"), the first two
items based on modern weapons of war (3451 Sopwith Camel, 2001 & 10024 Red
Baron, 2002), the first airplane (10124 Wright Flyer, 2004) and the first major
architectural landmark sculpture (Statue of Liberty Sculpture, 2000). Of those
four, he might have had some involvement in the greenlighting of the ISD set,
and clearly couldn't have been involved with the Statue of Liberty. I'm
guessing the Sopwith Camel was already in the works when he got hired, and the
Red Baron probably came as an extension to that, but both of those sets retailed
for only $50, so they're not quite so clearly keyed to the AFOL community.
But the point is, all these big and wonderful sets that everyone loves quite
possibly wouldn't exist if Jake hadn't shaken things up.
> I think LEGO has done a phenomenal job of catering to the adult fan since at
> least 2002 (if not before) and they continue to get better each year.
Never said they don't. Just saying that it's a recent trend.
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In lugnet.general, Allan Johansen wrote:
> In my experience, Pick-a-Brick, and by extension the LEGO Factory, are
> crazily expensive compared to Bricklink. When I build a model in LDD I
> usually end up buying the bricks through Bricklink, thus cutting the price
> in half...
>
> But perhaps it’s just me having a love for the wrong bricks...?
That's exactly it. If you're looking for black 2x4 bricks, the market is
flooded with them, so BL prices have settled pretty low (and the rarer parts in
a given set help offset those low prices so that sellers will still find it
worth parting those sets out). If, however, they were to offer up red monorail
motor covers, I doubt they'd run $20 apiece through the LEGO Factory, where on
BL they'll get bought up within minutes at that price.
Bricklink prices vary based on a combination of supply and demand, where LEGO
Factory prices go mostly by how much it costs to make them. I mean, it's not an
exact cost-to-price thing, or else black parts would cost noticably less than
just about any other color, but they'd probably take a loss on certain parts if
they tried to undercut BL prices.
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In lugnet.general, Allan Johansen wrote:
> In lugnet.general, Michael Shiels wrote:
> > YES but LEGO wouldn't be around if they don't make some profits right? How
> > at production cost would they survive.
>
> I didn’t say that they should stop selling the normal sets. I just asked for
> an additional service above and beyond that...
>
> But of course you have a point regarding the need for profit. Perhaps such
> an offer should be available only to certain clubs in order to limit the
> impact on the market? Or something like that...
I think that's not quite the point that was being made. The point is that
selling individual bricks to individual consumers is *grossly* more expensive
for the company, not that it's cheaper, and hence would need to sell sets to
keep their profits. That's why if you build a "set" out of Pick-A-Brick online,
you'll find that it's far more expensive than buying the same set at retail. If
that weren't true, you'd probably see the prices be roughly comparable.
> In my experience, Pick-a-Brick, and by extension the LEGO Factory, are
> crazily expensive compared to Bricklink. When I build a model in LDD I
> usually end up buying the bricks through Bricklink, thus cutting the price
> in half...
>
> But perhaps it’s just me having a love for the wrong bricks...?
Bingo.
You want bricks A, B, and C in mass quantities in colors 1, 2 and 3, and someone
else wants D, E, and F in colors 2, 9, and 12. All told, that would mean Lego
couldn't predict what you were going to want in the future, and would have to
stock tons extra, or would have to do incredibly short runs of parts (on-demand)
making the cost per brick in the hundreds or even thousands of dollars. You
simply can't set up a series of injection molding machines to run for a
particular part and color only to make a thousand parts or so. Each individual
element costs next to nothing, but the overhead in setting up the run to go
smoothly is very large. So they set up the run, and let it go for a few hours or
days or what-have-you, and get a few hundred thousand or maybe even a few
million parts, and presto, your setup cost is balanced out.
If everyone wanted the exact same elements in large quantities, we'd have no
problem. But you need such a variety that it's simply not even close to being
feasible.
> > I'd love it if I could request custom runs of parts in the colors I choose,
> > and I'm sure if I could purchase enough to make it economical, TLG would
> > probably do it
>
> Would they? Maybe...
Probably. But I expect we'd be talking in the millions in order for them to
start paying attention. Maybe once you got into the hundreds of thousands of
dollars, they'd start listening. Anyway, suffice to say that yes, if you could
afford it, yes, it would be economical for Lego, and they'd do it. If I said I'd
pay 100 billion dollars for a run of 10,000 old gray monorail tracks, they'd
FIND a way to make it happen. But that happy medium between "reasonable for me"
and "economical for Lego" is still unreachable on both sides.
> In truth, I’m not entirely convinced. As has already been pointed out, TLC
> seems to have been somewhat slow when it comes to dealing with AFOLs.
> Perhaps it’s not a question of whether or not there’s a profit to be made,
> but rather the simple fact that they haven’t thought about it? Or, at least,
> haven’t figured out how to do it in a viable, and profitable, way...?
They've certainly thought about it-- but to date, the feasibility isn't there.
As hinted earlier, the cost is in the overhead of setting up a production run of
a particular part/color combination. As it stands, there's a lot of stuff
involved in doing that. It takes time, manpower, and resources, because (as I
understand) they run the line, test the bricks, tweak things, run it again, test
the bricks, tweak again, run again, test the bricks, find out everything's good
to go, and finally run it for production. I don't know how much time and
resource that all takes, but I know it's a lot.
If there were a way to manufacture bricks WITHOUT that overhead (IE, not
injection molding, or a way to guarantee consistency without testing, and
automate setup quickly), then yes, this could be done such that it might be cost
effective (though probably still more expensive!) for AFOLs to buy.
DaveE
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In lugnet.general, Allan Johansen wrote:
> > ...realized that the design would need more than 300 1x14
> > studded beams... and I could actually purchase them, in
> > bulk, from S@H at lower prices than existed on Bricklink.
>
> In my experience, Pick-a-Brick... [is] crazily expensive
> compared to Bricklink... perhaps it’s just me having a love
> for the wrong bricks...?
Well, or maybe it's me generalizing from getting lucky once. Looking at PaB,
1x14's are currently 28 cents per piece. On Bricklink, right now, I can find
them for as low as 15 cents, but not in anything like the quantities I'd needed.
In fact right now the cheapest BL seller with quantities of more than 300 on
this item has them priced at 33 cents per piece - so S@H PaB would have saved me
$15 on that large order.
Another example would be the pneumatic "T". On BL, this is selling for a low as
5 cents each, but the cheapest seller with any quantity (here I mean "more than
10") is selling them at 8 cents/piece, the same as S@H PaB.
So it looks like it will depend on the piece, perhaps. For some it may seem
nonsensically expensive, while for others direct supply from LEGO makes you
wonder why BL sellers can sell at the rates they set (an example: there are BL
stores selling the pneumatic air tank for $30 or so, when the entire pneumatic
kit (tank, 3 cylinders, two pumps, three switches, *and* a manometer) can be
purchased new for just $50). As a Mindstorms & Technic type, I've turned to PaB
several times for bulk purchases, because it *was* competitive with BL. Which
honestly surprised me... but there it is.
> As has already been pointed out, TLC seems to have been somewhat
> slow when it comes to dealing with AFOLs.
Again, this may depend on your point of view. As a Technic/Mindstorms guy, the
amount that TLG has paid attention to to AFoLs seems amazing (to me; again, I'm
only one guy). The new PF system is very nice, and the fact that there are
converter cables I've got to think has a lot to do with AFoLs. If you are
selling to kids, that's not an issue, and if you are selling to schools, who
*do* have a legacy equipment issue, you tend to do it through LEGO Education...
yet S@H carries a lot of individual elements like PF motors, receivers,
converter cables, etc. Including AFoLs on the development, testing, and product
development has certainly been eye-opening... and in many cases very
"productive" for the AFoL portion of the market.
> Perhaps it’s not a question of whether or not there’s a
> profit to be made, but rather the simple fact that they
> haven’t thought about it? Or, at least, haven’t figured
> out how to do it in a viable, and profitable, way...?
They're a company, and the goal is ultimately to make a profit in a sustainable
way. I suspect that if it hasn't happened, it's not due to stupidity, but
perhaps either issues we don't know about, or timing and resource issues (you
can't do everything at once, even if it will all be profitable in the long run).
--
Brian "also nowhere near an expert" Davis
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In lugnet.general, David Laswell wrote:
| |
But that’s exactly the point. It’s not that they weren’t aware of us at all.
It’s that they thought we were an inconsequencial fraction of the total
market, and thus not worth catering to at all. And strictly in terms of the
total customer base, that’s very likely true. When you start to consider one
AFOL who spends upwards of $1000 per year vs. one child who might receive the
odd $10 LEGO set as a gift, those assumptions don’t really square up. When
you consider how the much-lamented “juniorization” lines up with the period of
time in which The LEGO Company had not one but two years that showed a net
annual loss (something which not even the color change managed to do), it
speaks to the fact that they need to develop their product with both halves of
their market base in mind.
|
Both halves? Do adult fans represent 50% of the market?
Cheers
Richie Dulin
CO Legeaux
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When it comes to Lego I'm with Tim... ; )
God Bless,
Nathan
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In lugnet.general, Richie Dulin wrote:
Yes! Me and the rest of you...
Well in appreciation terms anyway.
God Bless,
Nathan
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In lugnet.general, David Laswell wrote:
> But that's exactly the point. It's not that they weren't aware of us at
> all. It's that they thought we were an inconsequencial fraction of the total
> market, and thus not worth catering to at all. And strictly in terms of the
> total customer base, that's very likely true.
Honestly, my impression of the Lego hobbyist community is that there was a boom
in growth of AFOL purchasing around 1998-2000. My honest-to-god guess is that
AFOLs weren't worth marketing to back in, say, 1992, but we WERE worth marketing
to in 2002.
Most AFOLs I know were either not buying Lego prior to their reintroduction to
the hobby (typically 1998 or later), or just weren't buying very much until the
online community started fostering their hobby (which was verifiably growing
largely in that timeframe).
I'm not sure exactly what the point was that I would guess AFOLs were suddenly
"worth it", although I'd guess sometime starting around 1998 or so. But there's
very little for me to base that on, other than just a feeling. And certainly
today, we're a crucial segment of the market.
> Now, you can say that there are other individuals within the combined
> employee base that were instrumental in getting this change in mindset to
> occur, and a year ago I probably would have agreed. But then I watched that
> video of a presentation Jake did after leaving to start his own company.
Wait, now you don't agree that others were instrumental in the change? Part of
the point of Lego Direct was to start the whole communication and marketing with
AFOLs, which was started in 1999, headed initially by Brad Justus. And Jake was
hired on in roughly November? of 2000, almost a year after Direct's announcement
to the fan community in December of 1999. And surely somebody OTHER than Brad
helped to even set up that initiative. I'm not sure exactly when the plans for
this got set in motion, but I'd guess sometime in 1999-- maybe even earlier. If
you want to know when Lego caught the Clue Train, that's when they bought their
ticket.
Not that Jake wasn't tremendously helpful in that initiative. I'd be willing to
bet that he was the most active participant in that effort, and probably the
most effective. But to suggest that the company would still be ignoring AFOLs
completely if it weren't for Jake just doesn't match with what I see in looking
at the history. I think they wouldn't be as far along as they are today-- and I
think from the sounds of things Jake helped speed up inter-department
communication and other internal processes a great deal. But I don't think it's
fair to the rest of the company to label Jake as the one-and-only catalyst for
realizing the AFOL market.
> We're not _the_ important demographic by any means, but in many ways we're
> closer to both demographics than they are.
That I'd definitely agree with. What kids want and what adults want aren't
always the same, but it's amazing how you can make both parties happy if you
design your products appropriately. And now, may AFOLs are employed by Lego in
many different areas, which I think is helping to steer them in a better
direction than if they were just attempting to target kids. AFOLs were once
Lego-crazed kids, so they have a good idea of some of the things that attract
kids. So AFOLs (of which Jake was one, before joining the company) can pick up
on some of these points that might otherwise get ignored by a typical marketing
analysis.
DaveE
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In lugnet.general, David Laswell wrote:
>
> Never said they don't. Just saying that it's a recent trend.
Actually, it's not a recent trend - it's a rediscovered trend. Look at the 39x
Hobby Model sets from 1975 & 1976. They were clearly aimed at adults.
Paul Sinasohn
LUGNET #115
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"Allan Johansen" <f2k@chaotica.dk> wrote in message
news:K7CFDy.4I0@lugnet.com...
[ ... snipped ... ]
> What I would really like to see, is the possibility of making bulk buys
> directly
> from TLC. Why does TLC not cater to those AFOLs who dreams of building
> large
> models? Why do I have to rely on Bricklink to make bulk buys? Think of the
> models one could build if system bricks were available at production price
> plus
> packaging and shipping? I know I would be spending a lot more money on
> LEGO if
> that was possible...
How much more money would you spend or would you simply spend your money
differently? Exrapolate how much you might spend to a 1000 people? If 1000
people were willing to spend $1000, you're looking at $1,000,000 for LEGO
which will not get their attention as those 1000 people will almost
certainly not agree on small number of elements. Even if you had 10,000
people willing to spend $1000 or 1000 people willing to spend $10,000 I
still don't think you'd get their interest. You might be able to comission
a custom set in that volume but I'd be surprised if they'd consider an parts
order.
The logistics involved to do an order like you are describing for a company
like LEGO simply don't make economic sense. If they saw it as a viable,
repeatable, profitable, sustainable business then I am sure they would
consider it.
Mike
--
Mike Walsh -- mike underscore walsh at mindspring dot com
LEGO Blog: http://blog.carolinatrainbuilders.com
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"Purple Dave" <purple_daveAThotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
news:K7CvLF.3no@lugnet.com...
[ .... snipped ... ]
> Now, to be fair, you did miss a few, like the original OMG set (10030 UCS
> ISD,
> 2002, for which the only design directive was "make it cool"), the first
> two
> items based on modern weapons of war (3451 Sopwith Camel, 2001 & 10024 Red
> Baron, 2002), the first airplane (10124 Wright Flyer, 2004) and the first
> major
> architectural landmark sculpture (Statue of Liberty Sculpture, 2000). Of
> those
> four, he might have had some involvement in the greenlighting of the ISD
> set,
> and clearly couldn't have been involved with the Statue of Liberty. I'm
> guessing the Sopwith Camel was already in the works when he got hired, and
> the
> Red Baron probably came as an extension to that, but both of those sets
> retailed
> for only $50, so they're not quite so clearly keyed to the AFOL community.
[ ... snipped ... ]
I had breakfast with Jake one time when I was in Dallas (probably 4-5 years
ago) and he told me the story of the Statue of Liberty. Brad Justus made it
happen. He had a personal interest in it (he was from New York - as some
may recall, when LEGO Direct first popped up it was in NYC with Brad in
charge) and pushed LEGO to release it as a set. The intitial model was
white, not the green it got released in.
Mike
--
Mike Walsh -- mike underscore walsh at mindspring dot com
LEGO Blog: http://blog.carolinatrainbuilders.com
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