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OK, now we get to the heart of the matter that I was trying to put my finger on when I started this... but before I comment on Josh's post let me say this... Todd kind of backpedaled from his statement that he hates JarJar. I don't think he should (...) (24 years ago, 5-Nov-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) this... (...) He should have if that's how he feels. And really, he didn't backpedal so much as clarify. And why do you hate JarJar? (...) From a personal inner peace (and health) kind of stance, I think it's better not to. (...) Maybe. There (...) (24 years ago, 5-Nov-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Huh? (...) Maybe this makes my opinion of JJB more clear: I would not hate JJB at all if he were in some cheezeball B-movie sci-fi flick. If he were, I could ignore him -- and I wouldn't have to hate him. It's the fact that he appeared in a (...) (24 years ago, 5-Nov-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.starwars)
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(...) I couldn't agree more. --Todd (24 years ago, 5-Nov-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Aha! Thanks for writing that! I feel that while I hate Jar-Jar, I don't despise him. (Isn't that a strange contradiction?) Now I know how to say this: What I hate isn't Jar-Jar per se, but the fact that a character like Jar-Jar, which I find (...) (24 years ago, 5-Nov-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.starwars)
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(...) In fact...hmmm...I might even *like* JJB if he had been in some *other* movie and not a SW movie. That's bizarre. --Todd (24 years ago, 5-Nov-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.starwars)
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(...) My take on this (by the way, I agree w/ Todd's last statement) is that Star Wars in supposed to be an incredible epic, which it is. Now, you take something that's sole purpose is a marketing symbol for the kiddies and toss it into an epic, (...) (24 years ago, 5-Nov-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.starwars)
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| | Star Wars ruminations (was: Reality == fiction?)
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(...) Uh..no problem. (...) Not in light of how you equated Jar-Jar to sea food and MS. The only problem that I had with that note, was that you said the essense of your hate is that you wanted to limit as much as possible your exposure to those (...) (24 years ago, 5-Nov-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) What about Darth Maul? Chris (24 years ago, 5-Nov-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.starwars)
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(...) I think that's a great way of summing it up. Although -- it might not be quite the case that JJB's _only_ purpose was a marketing symbol. The main source of comic relief in Episodes IV-VI was C-3PO, with assorted material between Han & Chewie, (...) (24 years ago, 5-Nov-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Maul is also a marketing tool, yes. But, I mean, c'mon...he's just plain cool. He embodies a different quality...he is Star Wars, where Jar Jar isn't. A true bad guy for an epic. At least, IMO. -Chris (24 years ago, 5-Nov-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.starwars)
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| | Re: Star Wars ruminations (was: Reality == fiction?)
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(...) I didn't think I said that. I thought I said that the cartoon violence aimed at JJB was sort of a pleasant thing in fantasy sort of way -- in the way that allows you to pretend that JJB won't return for Episode II. I certainly don't wish to (...) (24 years ago, 5-Nov-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) I agree that he was cool, but if you compare the number of times we saw him to the times we saw the other characters before the movie came out, you would think that he was the star. As it turns out he said something, what twice? He is (...) (24 years ago, 5-Nov-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Ahhh, I know what you mean! We don't know how Darth Maul thinks -- we don't hear him talking much and when we do, he doesn't say anything profound or revealing. He doesn't interact with anyone else except to fight. Whereas we know that Darth (...) (24 years ago, 5-Nov-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.starwars)
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(...) OK, you got me. Let me rephrase my words: Darth Maul is a very cool, "b**-a** m***** f*****" who's place in the Star Wars universe was to come in, be cool, do his thing, kill Qui-Gon, get Obi-Wan all mad, and die. I do hope that he returns for (...) (24 years ago, 5-Nov-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.starwars)
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| | Re: Star Wars ruminations (was: Reality == fiction?)
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(...) I liked the battle droids, shows how stupid robots can be (and are sometimes). (...) Yeah, Lucas was drinking quite heavily then... (...) Don't forget, all Naboo star craft represents royalty and beauty, so they will have none of that (...) (24 years ago, 6-Nov-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Yeah, he's more of the evil henchman kinda guy, but he was very cool and bad. (...) Since Episode 2 is most likely based on the Clone Wars, perhaps we shall see a clone (that fights Mace Windu... or something!!). (...) Boba Fett is really (...) (24 years ago, 6-Nov-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.starwars)
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| | Re: Star Wars ruminations (was: Reality == fiction?)
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(...) The dumbest thing about them for me was that their Trade Federation masters had to appear via holo-radio (or whatever) to give them orders. Duh! And the roger-roger guff was silly, but I actually thought it was a fairly good way of throwing in (...) (24 years ago, 6-Nov-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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I have to agree-- I expected much more from Maul... as is he was simply Darth Sidious' pawn, he didn't have his own agenda. Or at least not yet. He seemed to be like an anxious kid, eager to go out and kill Jedi, without any strategy save that which (...) (24 years ago, 6-Nov-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.starwars)
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(...) I think that the movie was also degraded by the "super-powers" of Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. Lucas would put his characters in a particularly tight spot, and then have then overcome the situation by an introduction of incredible abilities. Ex: (...) (24 years ago, 6-Nov-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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Just to throw my two cents into the fray... While I agree the running away was a lousy special effect, I think I understand where GL was coming from with the super power effects. As I've gleaned from the various bits of written fiction, there were (...) (24 years ago, 6-Nov-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Or maybe just reaching down and cutting his hands off, eh? ~Mark "Muffin Head" Sandlin (24 years ago, 6-Nov-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Before the movie came out, people were asking all kinds of things about what the Jedi would be doing. Would there be a Lightsaber duel? Would there be force powers? Etc, etc. Lucas basically answered their questions by saying that what we saw (...) (24 years ago, 6-Nov-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) I have to disagree with this. I have always thought that in the original trilogy, the Jedi didn't make enough use of their powers. Jedi are supposed to be able to do most anything and yet they barely use their powers. I think the main reason (...) (24 years ago, 6-Nov-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) They did. At least, I know Maul did. Obi-Wan and Qui-Gonn did similar things at other points in the movies (mostly pushing around Droids). I think, though, that most of their attunement to the Force during that fight was probably concentrating (...) (24 years ago, 6-Nov-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | Re: Star Wars ruminations (was: Reality == fiction?)
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(...) then (...) While the technology in Games is usually junk most of the Star Wars games Story's fit perfectly into the cannon material. So in Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight (DF2JK) the main character has: (...) as (...) Force Speed (...) Force Jump (...) (24 years ago, 7-Nov-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Clarity, of course, is subjective, and if the humor of a work involves subtlety, then the intent of the work will become unclear to the less perceptive. (...) Are you suggesting that irony requires an explanatory prefix to avoid offending or (...) (24 years ago, 7-Nov-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Absolutely not. (...) Of course it would have ruined the "joke." But it isn't fit for the consumption of eight year olds. At least not many of them. (...) I think that people who delight in the graphic representation of infanticide and (...) (24 years ago, 7-Nov-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Well, that's an even less tactful way of phrasing it than mine, but I'm afraid you're reading the statement fairly accurately. I'll rephrase: ---...--- A person who is unable to comprehend irony, and requires instances of satire to be labeled (...) (24 years ago, 8-Nov-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Fair enough. I agree with the above. Clearly, some 8 year olds (not even mine, smarter than average that he is) don't have that sophistication. I'm sure we'd all agree with that as well. Taking that into account, and taking the relative (...) (24 years ago, 8-Nov-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Actually, I do to. But that "re-phrasing" isn't what he implied before. He suggested that "these" (the concepts under discussion) were jr. high level ideas and that we ought to simply agree with his obvious conclusion. That is a horse of a (...) (24 years ago, 8-Nov-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) If you'll go back to my original post (URL) , you'll see that I was reacting to Larry's statement: (...) Since satire and irony are such powerful, long-standing staples of our cultural dialogue, I rejected Larry's statement, and asked him to (...) (24 years ago, 10-Nov-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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