 | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Tim Courtney
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| | | (...) ...<snip>... (...) Its an electronic symbol of the Ischtus (I think?) Fish, Christians put them on their cars (at least in the US). It was a symbol the apostles used in the early church, etc. You see then plain, with Jesus in the middle, and (...) (26 years ago, 21-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Jim Baker
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| | | | | Also sprach Tim Courtney: : Its an electronic symbol of the Ischtus (I think?) Fish, Christians put them : on their cars (at least in the US). It was a symbol the apostles used in the : early church, etc. You see then plain, with Jesus in the (...) (26 years ago, 21-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | | | (...) the (...) And I'm a Christian and don't know who Ralph Reed is. See my other recent post on my opinion of the Darwin fish...I don't find it funny at all. -Tim <>< (URL) - Coming Soon! (URL) (26 years ago, 21-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Jim Baker
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| | | | | | | | Also sprach Tim Courtney: : And I'm a Christian and don't know who Ralph Reed is. See my other recent : post on my opinion of the Darwin fish...I don't find it funny at all. Ralph Reed is the founder of the Christian Coalition, and he was still in (...) (26 years ago, 21-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | (...) Well I don't find either of them funny. I see both of them as serious attempts by people to let others know where they stand. I won't ridicule people for using either, as I think it's good to know who I'm dealing with. Someone who is an out (...) (26 years ago, 21-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Gee, thanks. that makes me feel this big --> . For some reason I'm coming fast to the end of being able to calmly discuss this without preaching to people. The only thing is for some reason you guys all read books so you can argue against (...) (26 years ago, 21-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Tom McDonald
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) <snip> (...) I can appreciate Tim's feelings on the subject. Anyone, right or not, who thinks he is right can get angry when someone refuses to see "the truth". Even those folks who don't believe in God behave this way at times. I am a (...) (26 years ago, 22-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Wouter van Wageningen
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| | | | | | | | (...) I don't get that one. Is someone who believes in the bible, but attends a biology class regarding Darwin, also a hypocrite? ____ |oooo| Cheers, |oooo| Wouter van Wageningen ¯¯¯¯ (26 years ago, 22-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Tom McDonald
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| | | | | | | | (...) Presumably, I don't think that's what he meant. I think he means people who go just because "it's a nice place to be" without really taking into account (at least) the real purpose of church attendance. To directly answer your question, I (...) (26 years ago, 22-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Wouter van Wageningen
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| | | | | | | | | (...) I don't feel a need for a God of anysort in my life. But I do plan to go to church this christmas. Partly because there are a lot of things that do appeal to me, and partly because my friends like to celebrate christmas with me. And yes, those (...) (26 years ago, 22-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) No. I go to church too, believe it or not. Let me explain. Tom was close. I am prone to throwaway lines that don't explain in detail what I meant, and it's a consistent problem I have. Everyone should feel free to call me on it, too. What I (...) (26 years ago, 21-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Wouter van Wageningen
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Thanks, I guess we feel the same on this subject. Stange, how such a small remark can be interpreted in a totally wrong way ;-) ____ |oooo| Cheers, |oooo| Wouter van Wageningen ¯¯¯¯ (26 years ago, 23-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Tom McDonald
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Wouter van Wageningen writes: (...) True. My apologies for not being clearer. With the exception of whether I do believe or not, Larry largely put it (as far as I can tell :) how I wanted it said. Be genuine either way. The way I see it is, be (...) (26 years ago, 28-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) Yes but if I walk into a room full of LEGO every day, does that make me a LegoManiac?? :-) (26 years ago, 29-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Tom McDonald
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) Garshk, I would *hope* so... and, no doubt, you do walk into such a full room whenever you can. I know I wouldn't mind doing so. :) I gotta start going to KKK's Thursday night poker games... From Tom McDonald Anti-spam block in place. (URL) (...) (26 years ago, 29-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | | | | | | | Message-Id: <slrn78itgo.1gd.cjc@...S.UTK.EDU> X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) p.IWANTNOSPAM.com> Reply-To: cjc@newsguy.com Followup-To: (...) If you walk into a room FULL of LEGO every day I'd say that makes you pretty small or pretty flexible. :) (26 years ago, 29-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Not to pull a Clinton or anything... but sir, it clearly depends on the meaning of the word "full". (26 years ago, 30-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Jim Baker
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| | | | | | | | Also sprach Tom McDonald: : If you believe the bible _and_ that God used evolution, you had better know : your bible and your Darwin to verify their agreement. Many people find them : irreconcilable. This is te point I get hung up on .... I don't (...) (26 years ago, 23-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Barry McFarland
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| | | | | | | | (...) Part of the understanding of evolution is that it does not require an "outside" force. Thus the two are not only irreconcilable, but also irrelavent in association. Choices are: (1) either one is true and the other in not. or (2) niether is (...) (26 years ago, 23-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Jim Baker
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| | | | | | | | | Also sprach Barry McFarland: : Part of the understanding of evolution is that it does not require an "outside : force. Thus the two are not only irreconcilable, but also irrelavent in : association. Choices are: (1) either one is true and the other (...) (26 years ago, 23-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | (...) Well, I'm not sure I agree. I have read of gods that were the "cause" of the particular set of laws that apply in this universe(1), and the "cause" of their consequences. Under that analysis, (whether these gods could subsequently work (...) (26 years ago, 24-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Michael Huffman
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| | | | | | (...) On a side note, check out the Darwin Awards Official web site ((URL) A friend of mine e-mails them to me about once a year with the new winners. Some of them are quite honestly very funny -- they hear me laughing 3 or 4 cubes away. :) --Mike. (26 years ago, 21-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | (...) Right as far as it goes, but the reason WHY is that Jesus is often referred to as the fisher of men's souls, and he instructed his apostles to continue his work. (0) One of my all time favorite movies, and my ultimate favorite when chosen from (...) (26 years ago, 21-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | | | (...) Sounds dumb, but that escaped my mind when I wrote that. (...) In Catholicism. People generally lump Catholicism and Christianity together. They have the same basic history, the same God and hence the same Jesus, but believe other things like (...) (26 years ago, 21-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Selçuk Göre
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| | | | | | | | | (...) together. (...) but (...) Evangelical (...) the (...) Hey friends, do you ever think about this?..All of the religions has their own types of ceromonies (I can't find a better word) and beliefs, which are not respected (generally) by the (...) (26 years ago, 22-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this (ain't it though? :) —Tom McDonald
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) I would say that's true. IMO, I need to believe "this" _and_ disbelieve "that" to have a better defined path. Perhaps analogous: Lego bricks only fit in certain ways, though we must explore and use all the ways they do and don't fit and why. I (...) (26 years ago, 22-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this (ain't it though? :) —Matt Hanson
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) I consider myself to be a Christian, but I have a hard time believing that anybody who does not believe just as I do is bound for hell... I don't think that a God, knowing the confused nature of mankind, would allow this to happen... The idea (...) (26 years ago, 23-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this (ain't it though? :) —Tom McDonald
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) I'm not quite like that either. At the same time, I don't believe that every person becomes saved either. <snipped middle of thought out response> (...) Yeah, I can't answer them all either, as I didn't invent the mechanism of salvation - (...) (26 years ago, 28-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Jeff Stembel
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| | | | | | | | | (...) People lump them together because Catholicism is a branch of Christianity. If you believe that Christ is the son of god (and the rest of the Bible), you are a Christian. Most Branches of Christianity formed after the Reformation. Jeff P.S. I (...) (26 years ago, 22-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Evangelical (...) Good point. I was pointing out that it was lumped, and it is confusing to some non-believers. And I agree, I will un-involve myself now. -Tim <>< (URL) - Coming Soon! (URL) (26 years ago, 22-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Christian == Catholic? (Was Geez... —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) I apologise for not being sufficiently precise. Catholicism is a kind of Christianity. But there are offshoots that feel that they are christian that most christians would not feel actually are. The one that springs to mind the quickest is the (...) (26 years ago, 22-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Christian == Catholic? (Was Geez... —Jeremy H. Sproat
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) No, you are pretty much right on target. Larry, thank you for that. You have no idea how much that snippet of understanding means to me. It is because of misunderatndings on this premise that I quit debating general religion with anyone. I (...) (26 years ago, 23-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Christian == Catholic? (Was Geez... —Selçuk Göre
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| | | | | | | | | | | Larry Pieniazek wrote in message <367EE16C.C3BE1B7E@c...AM.com>... ...<snip>... (...) It is partially true. Islam accepts both Jesus (Isa) and Moses (Musa) as prophets, but believes that the Islam is much more completed, and fills the gaps that (...) (26 years ago, 23-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Christian == Catholic? (Was Geez... —Jeff Stembel
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) On a historical note, Christianity and (I believe) Islam are offshoots of Judaism, which itself is an offshoot of the Polytheistic Babylonian Religion. Jeff (26 years ago, 23-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | (canceled) —Matt Hanson
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Christian == Catholic? (Was Geez... —Matt Hanson
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Religion. (...) While the first statement is true, the last is garbage.... (26 years ago, 24-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Christian == Catholic? (Was Geez... —Richard Dee
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Religion. (...) I do believe there are also slight similarities to Zoroastrianism, which I believe was the first monotheistic religion from that region... (26 years ago, 24-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Christian == Catholic? (Was Geez... —Richard Dee
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) The Islamic faith recognises Christ as a prophet, though not a saviour. Not quite as highly revered as Mohammed, but quite high up there....... (26 years ago, 24-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Jim Baker
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| | | | | | | | | Also sprach Tim Courtney: : They have the same basic history, the same God and hence the same Jesus, but : believe other things like worship of Mary, the Pope, etc. I am an Evangelical : Christian (Pentacostal/Charismatic to be precise) who does not (...) (26 years ago, 23-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | SF Story (was Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this) —Chad Smith
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| | | | | | | | (...) check my back issues of Science Fiction Age for the author and title. The action took place on a lunar colony, IIRC. I forget who won the case, though. Chad (26 years ago, 8-Jan-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Steve Bliss
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| | | | | | (...) Plus, IXOYE (or I<CH><TH>US) is Greek for fish, right? Steve (26 years ago, 23-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Geez, its hard to stomach all of this —Tom McDonald
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| | | | (...) For anyone interested, the Ichthus was a symbol of a fish with the Geek acronym inside it that meant, I=Jesus - in greek his first name starts with iota; latin has it as "Iesu"), X=Christ - last name starts with chi for the hard sound in (...) (26 years ago, 21-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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