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(...) Why don't you leave the exogesis of the Bible to those who know what they are talking about (as you obviously don't). (...) The point is moot, to Christians at least. Jesus' teaching on the subject is clear, as He quotes from Genesis (...) (20 years ago, 19-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Yep, you've just lost any sense of moral ground--"let no man separate". As long as "man" is separating, you've got nothing. Get rid of divorce (man separating the covenant that 'God joined'), get rid of adultery and coveting, and then we may (...) (20 years ago, 19-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I'm not seeing where that description of linkage rules out a similar linkage with another willing partner, although I'd grant that it does rule out the partmer being the same gender. I'm also not seeing the relevance to constitutional rights (...) (20 years ago, 20-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Don't forget anullment which is the Catholics' way of getting around that little religious entanglement. (...) Now, see, there you're just restricting the rights of the citizenry to break their solemn vows. That'll never fly (heck, in (...) (20 years ago, 20-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: polygyny in "biblical times"
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(...) The operative word I'd say would be "two". (...) Not really. Marriage is a religious institution-- that governments decide to recognize marriages as civil unions is where the rub lies. All I am arguing is for the preservation of the definition (...) (20 years ago, 20-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) This discussion is about the definition of marriage, Dave. How would you define it? (...) The issue is whether the state has a vested interest in recognizing marriages or not. JOHN (20 years ago, 20-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) The state should recognize marraige as a contract between persons, no matter their sexual affiliation. If the Church wants to put quantifiers on that contract, i.e. one person must be female, and the other must be male, all the power to the (...) (20 years ago, 20-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) How many persons? (...) So are public restrooms. Are you against separating those? (...) For what possible reason? That is downright strange. (...) Well, that "church" has some issues. (...) lol "evolution of society"? Are you so sure our (...) (20 years ago, 20-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) I recognize that the law requires boys to pee in one place and girls to pee in another, but I can't really think of a solid reason that this should be so, other than because people can be quaintly immature about functions involving the (...) (20 years ago, 20-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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"Dave Schuler" <orrex@excite.com> wrote in message news:I15rpI.1v7n@lugnet.com... (...) pee in (...) so, (...) involving the (...) in the (...) I'm with you on this one. I visited a dorm at MIT that had a co-ed bathroom, that had multiple stalls (...) (20 years ago, 20-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) So your point is that the state has a vested interest in NOT recognizing marriages? Why? I thought your point (in a past debate) was that somehow gay marriage negatively affected the American family, which was the foundation of society (though (...) (20 years ago, 20-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: polygyny in "biblical times"
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Eaton wrote: <snip> (...) And the scary bit is that, from what I've read, all Dave's seem to be on the same page regarding this issue, and these Dave's come from widely divergent backgrounds. Wow! Dave K -go Daves (...) (20 years ago, 20-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) (URL) fun) (20 years ago, 20-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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(...) Why would there have been a (URL) problem>? She was obviously calling out to Dave factoral;-) (Sorry to steal your thunder, Dave!) JOHN (20 years ago, 20-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.fun, FTX)
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(...) I like some of those names. Since this is a PG or less show, I won't mention that I choked on my tea whilst reading 'Soggy Muff'... Oops, did I say that out loud? Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFatee -formerly known as Dave K (20 years ago, 20-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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(...) As far as the state is concerned, the church doesn't, but the church does require itself to abide by the laws of the land. If the US government says gays can get married, it doesn't mean that the church would have to perform or even recognize (...) (20 years ago, 20-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Actually, I don't believe I've stated my opinion on whether gays should be allowed to marry, just on who should be able to say whether they can or can't (not the church, and not the federal government, because the US Constitution relegates (...) (20 years ago, 20-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I'm not sure this is how it should be in the US with our legal precident. If sexual preference is a fully protected non-discrimination item, then private churches won't be able to refuse to marry them. Maybe this is what folks like John are (...) (20 years ago, 21-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Well, that is kind of the defining belief of "conservative," right? (...) But I think John believes that if the Bible says something, it is right. That's the measure of rightness. So he doesn't need to look farther. Chris (20 years ago, 21-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Marital status is a non-discrimination item, but that doesn't prevent the Catholic church from refusing to marry a divorced person. They can't be required to perform the ceremony if they can't be required to recognize the union, and forcing (...) (20 years ago, 21-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Let's hope not :) If stated so, I have a hunch lots of people would start migrating over to the liberal side :) (...) Well, I doubt that's John's point since I don't think he's interested in making other laws to: - attend church on Sunday - (...) (20 years ago, 21-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Could they, hypothetically speaking deny marriage to blacks by not recognizing their legal status or somesuch? Chris (20 years ago, 22-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) If you'd read the header & not snipped quite so much text, you'd see I was talking about polygyny in NT "biblical times"; what are you talking about? Scott A (...) (20 years ago, 22-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) The "ten virgins" are bridesmaids for the bride, not whatever you seemed to be implying (polygyny). Or were you just making some throw-away joke? JOHN (20 years ago, 22-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) What makes you think the "ten virgins" are "bridesmaids for the bride"? Scott A (...) (20 years ago, 22-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) It's not what I think-- it is what biblical scholars think. So again-- leave the exegesis to the ones who know what they are talking about. JOHN (20 years ago, 22-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) So you don't know? Do you accept the work of these "scholars" without question? Your reply reminded me that you once said this: "I come from a traditional that believes that each and every person has direct access to God without the need of (...) (20 years ago, 22-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Do we have any of those here? (biblical scholars who know what they're talking about, I mean, I wasn't casting aspersions on everyone as far as knowing what they're talking about, mind you...) If we don't do we have to take your word for it on (...) (20 years ago, 22-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Made me curious, but yeah, I think John's spot-on on this one. Looks like it's just yet another quickie parable: "Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath set over his household, to give them their food in due season? (...) (20 years ago, 22-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) I'll admit that it's pretty thin, but there is a distinction nonetheless. By refusing to perform same-sex marriages, the Church is not refusing to perform weddings for gays at all. They're just refusing to perform weddings between them. (...) (20 years ago, 22-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Nope, just five of them. ;P (20 years ago, 22-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) I don't get it; am I missing something obvious? What makes the "ten virgins" "bridesmaids for the bride"? Scott A (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Whoa! Girl-on-girl-on-girl...rl-on-girl action, straight from the pages. I'll have to reread this book after all. Dave! (20 years ago, 23-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) **Blush** I'll have another go at that: I don't get it; am I missing something obvious? What makes the "ten virgins" "bridesmaids for the bridegroom"? Scott A (20 years ago, 23-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Ahh, Scott, always to be counted on for persnicking the details. You were right the first time, in quoting "bridesmaids for the bride" rather than 'bridegroom' since that's what John posted initially: (...) And you're right insofar as it's not (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) As the header & my initial post suggests, my point was only that polygyny did exist in “biblical times” in historic Israel. I am not saying that the bible encourages it... only that it was not uncommon. If you read around ((URL)) you will see (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Probably some sort of historical precedence. By modern standards, they probably wouldn't be, since they're characterized as waiting at the reception hall rather than being part of the wedding party itself. On the other hand, they're (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Well... uh... since the quote you used really doesn't seem to imply a polygynal relationship between the bridegroom and the virgins unless taken out of context, shouldn't you have found a better quote, unless you were making a joke? I mean, as (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) I was in a polygonal relationship one time: a love triangle. The other guy was a real square, and it finally ended when she found out that he had a rectangular dysfunction. Dave! FUT: off-topic.what-have-I-done? (20 years ago, 23-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Not to go off on a tangent, but that's plane nuts. I've had a few-- they seem to come and go, but mine are come n-gon. I guess it's a bad sine. DaveE (20 years ago, 23-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.pun, FTX)
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(...) With these types of relationships it's important to approach from the right angle, and if it smells a bit fishy, try angling. But don't get snagged on a wreck......tangle ! It's often hard to enter Royal circles, just ask Di...amateur ! They (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.pun, FTX)
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(...) What does it imply to you? (...) Do you think that negates my point? Scott A (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) None of which is clear (to me at least) in the text Dave quoted. Scott A (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) That you were making a joke? Great! A joke it was. (...) Negates your joke? By no means! Does it negate your "point" that polygyny was still common in NT times? No, but it unless it was solely a joke, your use of the quote had about as much (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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Somehow, I get the feeling you are being deliberately obtuse. Scott A (20 years ago, 25-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Really? I kinda get the same impression... DaveE (20 years ago, 26-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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