Subject:
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Re: Property Rights are the foundation of freedom
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:59:42 GMT
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Viewed:
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311 times
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This is turning out to be a better thread than I originally surmized--I
wasn't sure where to jump in, but here's a good a place as any :)
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Costello writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Costello writes:
> > > As for your assertion about exploitation, bear in mind there are two worlds,
> > > the way things should be and the way things are. Let’s use Nike as an
> > > example, as anti-capitalists everywhere seem to revel in tearing them down.
> > > First off why does a company like Nike move it’s manufacturing out of the
> > > US? Well that’s easy because they know that minimum wage laws cut deeply
> > > into profit, so they look to under-developed countries like Indonesia for
> > > inexpensive labor. They do not enter villages with guns forcing these people
> > > to work, there is no overseer with a whip beating them if their performance
> > > is sub par.
> >
> > Wow, you really haven't a clue have you? That's it, just keep living your
> > comfortable american life on the backs of the poor. Energy is limitless...
>
> Me clueless? maybe on somethings, but I don't thiink this is it, I just
> disagree with you. The only poor I live off the backs off is my grandparents
> who left their repressive country for a free nation where inspite of
> difficulty they were able to earn a living, and provide for his family. His
> hard manual work in a free country enabled his sons to go to college and
> make a good life for themselves. So yes, my level of comfort comes precicely
> because my grandfather made the neccessary sacrifices to make them possible.
YOur grandpa left an oppressed country to come to "the promised land". My
grandparents did the same thing. They could back then--can these folks in
the sweatshops get out of their oppressive situation today? Not likely with
the prices of travel and the immigration laws. In the early 20th century
this N. American continent was looking for folks. Today, not so much.
So these workers don't get apid enuf to leave, and even if they did, they
have nowhere to go. There's the difference b/w 70 years ago and today.
Further, continuing with your little premise, your grandpappy came over here
to make a better life for him and his family. So a couple of generations
later, thanks to unions, well intentioned gov't finagling, and such, we now
have minimum wage, and safety in shops, and set hours and all the like--the
problem is the businesses take a hit 'cause all these things add to the
financial 'bottom line'. So now the company goes looking to increase its
profits (cause that's the measure of success in a capitalistic system) and
takes their factories to where there's none of these things. It's basic
capitalism that makes these companies take their factories 'off shore'.
The part that I think is rather ironic is that we sit here in the 'first
world' and dictate to the 'third world' that they can't do to their people,
the environment, and such, the exact same thing we did 100+ years ago, which
got us to the 'first world' in the first place. Imagine some country
telling the US back in 1882 that children can't be 'slaves' in the mills,
that there must be reduction of pollutants, and such.
The further irony is that it's the exact capitalistic 'god' that makes these
companies today go to countries where these laws of the 'first world', i.e.
environment and workers rights, are weak or non-existant.
Capitalists made this monster. Now they wine when they have to deal with it.
Fighting over property rights and judicial protection, like a couple of
fleas fighting over which one owns the dog.
Another point--
We give folks the "want" of materialism--I've seen advertising for goods in
all places throughout the world, and yet we 'first world' put a glass
ceiling on the third world countries, keeping them 'down there' so we can
pay a worker 10 cents a day to make our Nike shoes. Nicely done!
> Energy from the sun is limitless, too bad we don't use it more, either way
> it's getting expensive.
But solar cells are getting more efficient and cheaper--so that's going well.
<snip>
>
> Scott
Dave K
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