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(...) This is a joke coming from you, in the last weeks you have shown me that you don't understand (amongst other this): Freedom Liberty Freedom of Speech Freedom & liberty From (URL) > As for "first principles", I have become convinced that you (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thank you, Britain.
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(...) Why not? (...) The fact that the evidence which is been presented is all circumstantial, very simplistic in nature and collected by agencies who have failed in the past. When I read the evidence, I have to ask myself why the USA was not on a (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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Hello Dave, hello everybody, I have followed the discussion about responsibility for Iraqi people a while, and what it boils down to is: Different people have different definitions of responsibility. First, there is the humanistic definition: People (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The big lie
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(...) ??? The FAA has fined airlines many times for rebadging used parts (or dangerous/damaged parts) as certified for re-use. Seems damned obvious to me that the private corps are trying to cut widget maintenance costs IN SPITE OF government agency (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) So to clarify, are you saying that FB jr should pay for FB sr's mistake? In that case, shouldn't you extend your definition to be something like "society is set up to allow people (and their families) to reap ..."? ROSCO (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thank you, Britain.
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(...) afraid. No need for fear 8?) The original comment was directed at Mr Blairs assertion that we should "Be in no doubt Bin Laden and his people organised this atrocity,", and I'm afraid (!) I can't just dismiss my doubts because he asks me to. (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Acha! That's the crucial bit. "More FBS's fault than the government's". I.E. not to say that the government isn't at fault-- that would be (I think it is)misleading. But more to say that it is FBS's actions which, "should" have changed-- or (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Can you elaborate on what you mean by "fault !=bad" then? Maybe there's some fundamental misunderstanding here... However: I'll reiterate, FB Jr.s pain is FB Srs fault more than anyone else's. Reread the cite I gave... you're going down the (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) An "out"? I never said he had an "out". An "out" implies removal of responsibility perhaps, but not of fault. Perhaps a re-reading of my two posts is in order. I feel a little like I'm entering the "Scott-and-Larry show" on this one... DaveE (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Nope. That cite in fact does get to the root of the assertion you make. Saying that FB Sr. has an out because he had a bad childhood is egregious bogosity. (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) that fault != bad. Saying that the US isn't at fault is erroneous. Saying that you stand behind our actions insofar as you think things would have been *WORSE* had we acted differently or not at all is what I expect you to mean. Per your (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Tsk tsk yourself. I'm comfortable I've got the causes pegged correctly. (URL) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thank you, Britain.
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(...) Thanks for the snide comment but which of those three choices were you going with? Calling him a failed politician isn't an answer either. Pick one of the above or show that I omitted one possibility and let me know what it is? (...) This was (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Such sweeping assumptions on causality. Tsk tsk. By pulling back the causal loop one step further to point the finger at FB Sr. instead of the government that imprisoned him is no better than to step back one step further and point the finger (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The big lie
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(...) Me too. This is a very valid concern, and it's true for more than just this particular instance. So you should support mechanisms that are likely to reduce the probability of corners being cut and oppose mechanisms that are likely to increase (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) A great explanation of this was given by Dave! (...) The original cite of "debunk this" deconstructs the UN statistics. Statistics have a way of getting cited and re-cited, and those cites get recited by those that want the statistics to be (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) So you are comfortable with fixing the past mistakes we made in supporting the thugs in Iraq and then in leaving the job undone the first time we had a chance to clean up the mess, then? The implication of that, of course, is that you support (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Historical Significance of Iraq
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(...) <snip> Excellent list. It is a real tragedy that this country is currently run by a thuggish gang (which we had too large a hand in putting in place for my taste, and which we could have removed in 1991 were it not for those advocating that we (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Incorrect. Suffering of children is never "justified". My argument merely demonstrates that their suffering is not the *fault* of the US, just as the suffering of FB Jr (while not "justified") in not having his wants satisfied is not the (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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"Larry Pieniazek" <lpieniazek@mercator.com> wrote in message news:GKou8D.K9v@lugnet.com... (...) I don't think your argument stands one bit. You were trying to use this as justification as to why Iraqi children should suffer, because of the crimes (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Interesting if true
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(...) I have heard this as well. Problem is hindsight is 20/20. Who knew in 1996 that bin Laden would have become the bane of our existance as he is today? Who is to say that taking him out in 1996 would have prevented anything? Its nice to think (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Not necessarily "would have" in all cases, and most assuredly not "should have". It is *not* the duty of the state to ensure that everyone is cared for. That your state has chosen to do that (the will of the majority imposed on all funds it) (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thank you, Britain.
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(...) There is a HUGE difference between "no evidence" ("any evidence") and "no conclusive evidence". That was a very serious omission on your part, I'm afraid. We convict people of crimes based on strong circumstantial evidence all the time... not (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Byzantine Brokering by Byzantium
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(...) Neat. I wonder what play it was to use They Might Be Giants songs... Istanbul was Constantinople Now it's Istanbul not Constantinople So if you've a date in Constantinople She'll be waiting in Istanbul. (I'll confess just about my favorite (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Byzantine Brokering by Byzantium
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(...) So take me back to Constantinople No you can't go back to Constantinople Been a long time gone, Constantinople Why did Constantinople get the works? That's nobody's business but the Turks. I seem to recall my mother singing that silly song in (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mecha-zuna, a pictoral Story...
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(...) As most other people are saying, its your world, your story. Do what you want with it. Why does the "New Byzantine Army" *have* to have anything to do with the original empire? They could just be trying to make a connection to an ancient and (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mecha-zuna, a pictoral Story...
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(...) Scratch that "recommendation." That's not what I meant to put across--rather that if anything *had* to be changed, I'd change something else before the name. I really do like the name. (Thus the :D...) But again, it's your universe, and so (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mecha-zuna, a pictoral Story...
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(...) That's an interesting point. An alternate universe where either a) the Byzantines held out or b) the Byzantine leadership took the reins of Islam--like Christian emperors of Rome--and married Islam to the Greco-Roman tradition? Then you might (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mecha-zuna, a pictoral Story...
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(...) Actually, I really liked the *name*. I didn't see your explanation for the formulation of the subdivision itself. My suggestion, if it's even possible, would be to reformulate the backstory of its composition and make it, say, an agglomeration (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Byzantine Brokering by Byzantium
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(...) Not so much the Turks but the Ottomans under Mehmet II (the Conqueror). Theirs was the real administrative revolution that made the final conquest of Byzantium by the Turks possible. IMHO, anyways, given that the Anatolian hinterland had been (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mecha-zuna, a pictoral Story...
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(...) Man Mladen, give the guy a break. Sure, the geography is off, his story will have nothing to do with the Byzantine Empire, or the radicals which want to recreate it, or its old enemyis which still exist (ex: Bulgaria). But guess what, it (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mecha-zuna, a pictoral Story...
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(...) Don't change a story because people have negative feelings about it. Post disclaimers if you wish, but unless the story itself is somehow inciting people, don't change it. Even if people criticise the story itself, to do so violates your own (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mecha-zuna, a pictoral Story...
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snip (...) Ok, did anyone else find it "out of place?" cuz then I think I will change it, if more people have negative feelings about it then I think it would be appropriate to change it. -Geordan- (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mecha-zuna, a pictoral Story...
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(...) No prob. ;-) (...) Islamic (...) Army" (...) that I (...) sounded (...) logical (...) middle (...) make (...) No, of course not! I just wanted to hear your "explanation" or reasoning. The "New Byzantine Army" still, IMHO, is a *BIG* misnomer. (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mecha-zuna, a pictoral Story...
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(...) Hi Mladen, thanks for voicing your opinion, (...) Yes I learned all about that last year... (...) It's my own made up story, this story isn't meant to be based on any thing that I think even *might* happen, The reason for the name was simply (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mecha-zuna, a pictoral Story...
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(...) Turkey (an Islamic country). Whoops, I made an error. Istanbul is not the currect captial of Turkey; Ankara is. Sorry. Mladen Pejic, over and out! (URL) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mecha-zuna, a pictoral Story...
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Okay... Lame history lesson ON: The Byzantine empire was an Eastern Roman/Greek empire. The capital was Constantinople, which is now modern-day Istanbul, capital of Turkey (an Islamic country). Constantinople fell to the Turks in 1453. The Byzantine (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thank you, Britain.
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(...) I guess I should've put "conclusive" in there somewhere. A couple of excerpts from (URL) (free reg req) --- Secretary of State Colin L. Powell, in an interview today with The New York Times, said administrationofficials had been briefing (...) (23 years ago, 3-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Interesting if true
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(...) Funny, this diplomacy thing in action... :-P Anyway, it is quite possible. One of the things that is illustrative is the willingness to let others do the dirty work: when they say they had been expecting the Saudis to behead ObL... (but then (...) (23 years ago, 3-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.loc.pt)
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| | Re: The Biblical Significance of Iraq
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(...) Also: look at Jacob and Esau (Genesis chapter 25-28 or so). This is where the turmoil began, as Jacob 1) traded Esau a bowl of stew for Esau's birthright and 2) stole Esau's blessing from his father Isaac. In those times this was humongous, as (...) (23 years ago, 3-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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