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I put this in lugnet.general because I don't know where it started.
We ain't what we oughta be
We ain't what we wanta be
We ain't what we gonna be
But thank God we ain't what we was.
-MLK
Perhaps some people will be mad at me for bringing this subject back into
the light(1). But I prefer to address things which should be addressed. I
have been catching up on Lugnet and I have refrained from typing many replies,
but this has been a hot topic for about 211 years here in the United States,
and since black people are still being treated unequally I am going to type
now. For the first time, I will side with Dave! Schuler, on some things.
Man, the pompousness and sheer willful blindness of some people irritates me
to no end.
I did the same thing Tim Courtney did, I tried to find some black people
pictured on LEGO products/advertising. I looked through a pile of catalogs I
have, and picked up the newest ones first, thinking I would have the best
chance of finding black people in those. OK, the 2000 European catalog has
about 40 people in it - none of them are black. OK. The 1999 Euro catalog -
about 20 people pictured, no blacks. Hmm. 1979 catalog - 1 dozen people
pictured, of course none are black. So I am seeing a trend.
Also, I look at some of the company literature destined for employees, not
the public. July, 1999 "LEGO Review" (internal house magazine for LEGO
employess ouside of Denmark - in English) features the new Tine Truck and the
LEGO book, contains pictures of over 100 people, four of whom are black.
December, 1998 LEGO Review contains several hundred people pictured, 1 is
black - also one wookie is pictured. Farther back in time, 1989 in house
newspaper - hundreds of people pictured - none are black.
OK, so I did that. I knew this though. I didn't have to look. I already
knew, and so do you people. Even you Tim, who tried to argue on TLC's behalf
by alluding to some magazines that picture blacks. You know it. You can
refuse to admit it, but you know it - there are very very few blacks pictured
in LEGO's various publications and materials. I knew because I have been
playing with LEGO for years, and I know I never see blacks on the boxes or in
the catalogs(2).
But I say so what(3). I never see blacks in the catalogs for other lines
of toys either. Most manufacturers aren't going to put black people on the
packages of things they sell. LEGO, nor any other company uses blacks in
their marketing (especially before the 90s) because that would cheapen their
product (thats what the marketing people believe, and that is because they
absolutely KNOW their market). The market (for anything) in the good ol' USA
is like this: If a toy has a picture of a black kid playing with it, and if
the vast majority of consumers (80% - basically the whole market) think black
people can't afford good toys, then those people are not going to think that
is a good toy - and they won't buy it! So, for what reason would TLC put
black kids on their products, if that is what people in this country think???
As a country, our collective white mind thinks, "Yeah, blacks (except the ones
we have locked up) are decent people, they are just like us, but they are
poorer than us." That will change someday, and the sooner the better. The
marketing people may have finally realized that blacks do have some money to
spend and so they have bent their rules, but the rest of us haven't learned
much yet, still.
Now it is time for me to defend TLC. It is a very simple defense. TLC is
based in Denmark. TLC is a toy company - whose business it is to manufacture
and sell toys. There purpose is not to change the thinking of human beings on
another continent. Thats why I wrote this post, because it is much more my
own responsibility and anyone else's who lives on this continenant than
TLC's. Racism is alive and well here in the good ol' USA, and it seems to me
a lot of people are looking for someone else to solve it. If you don't think
so, then your nuts. Why call TLC racist though? It is the people of this
country who are still racist (after how long??). And I am sure there are
racial discords in every country, but it is not TLC's job to "fix things" in
those places either.
Finally, for the argument is TLC racist (no!) for making a yellow Lando...
thats just so stupid... they'd appear to be a lot less racist if they make him
yellow than if they make him brown. Hmm... there have been 200 billion yellow
faced minifigs and only 1 black...
They are up a creek without a paddle either way if people continue to
insist it is TLC's responsiblility to solve the racism problem in the USA.
211 years worth of good ol' American know how hasn't put a dent in that
problem, and neither will TLC - they shouldn't even be expected to! I do
expect them to sell good toys, and I am confident they will continue to do
so. Thank you for reading this lengthy missive.
1 - They are probably racist or otherwise severely deluded.
2 - If you can find a LEGO set box with a black person pictured please let me
know.
3 - So do something yourself instead of bashing TLC for not fixing it. And
don't say they are causing or promoting racism either, because it is just not
true.
Have fun!
John (tellin it like it is)
Please think before you post.
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler writes:
> In lugnet.starwars, Tim Courtney writes:
> >
> > Jason Rowoldt wrote:
> > "Does it seem marketed toward non-blacks? (A term I use from your comments,
> > as I have a real problem in trying to judge that fine line as to who is black
> > and who isn't, based on skin tone or cultural preference. I'd rather us all • be
> > just human beings)."
> >
> > I'd agree with this statement wholeheartedly.
>
> No one in any argument here has suggested that skin color has any effect on
> a person's human-ness.
>
> > But, as an interesting aside, I'm looking at a couple pieces of literature.
>
> **snip of several recent, anecdotal examples**
>
> These are fine, of course, and it's great to see that Lego has opened its
> marketing to a broader cross-section of consumers. However, the examples you
> give are all rather recent, and the yellow minifig has been around since the
> early 70's. Do we have any examples of sales or marketing literature from
> that time that was similarly broad in scope? I don't recall any, though I may
> be wrong.
>
> > So really, is LEGO marketed any less towards any particular race? I would
> > think not - because LEGO is a truly worldwide company, and the literature
> > I've seen portrays people of a variety of different races being involved
> > with LEGO bricks.
>
> The point is that, when the minifig was introduced, marketing was more
> caucasian-oriented, and many have inferred, right or wrong, the uniformity of
> minifig color to indicate a "racial" characteristic.
>
> > Back to the quote - I am again in agreement with Jason's statement. We are
> > all human beings. That's the first thing that ties us all together, our
> > humanity, and secondarily our distinct genetic variations.
>
> The following is idle speculation--not directed at anyone in particular:
> Considering that the AFOL community (in the US, at least), to judge by all
> of the pictures I've seen on the web, and from other adult shoppers I see at
> stores, reflects a sharply skewed demographic. Since we are not speaking
> among an even remotely integrated community, I have to wonder how the noble
> platitudes of "we're all one race" would stand in an environment truly
> representative of the world's population and displaying a much broader range
> of experiences re: race.
>
> > I leave now with the strong feeling this was used by people to cry racism.
> > That's unfortunate, because (at least from my POV) LEGO is not acting with • any
> > racial motivation whatsoever in its product line.
>
> I haven't read every message in the thread, but I don't recall anyone
> actually asserting racism as the issue. Rather, people have expressed their
> concerns that a possible yellow Lando minifig will seem more odd than a yellow
> Han minifig. Further, Lego might not pursue "any racial motivation" in its
> product line, but, as many have pointed out, the fact that Duplo offers a
> multi-hued figure pack demonstrates irrefutably that Lego sees some benefit in
> offering more than one color of figure.
>
> > On a lighthearted sidenote, I know someone who made their own black minifig,
> > and it was really cool! He is black himself, and what I appreciated the
> > most is he didn't take on an attitude that it was an injustice needing to be
> > corrected - he did it because he wanted a fig to represent himself.
>
> This is the essence of the problem, isn't it? If your friend saw the need
> to alter a minifig (blasphemy to some Lego purists) to represent his skin
> color, then the "yellow represents everybody" argument fails obviously fails,
> at least for your friend. Does it seem likely that your friend is the only
> person to feel this way? I grant you, when I set out to make a "me" minifig to
> put on my desk, I sought one with glasses and brown hair and didn't bother
> with "white" skin. If I were blue or green, however, it would require a
> greater suspension of disbelief for me to imagine the pale yellow figure to
> represent my skin color.
> Interestingly, MegaBloks figures several years ago were white, and they look
> really weird. In the last few years, though, they've offered a range of skin
> hues.
>
> > And his attitude towards it was positive, fun, and definitely constructive to
> > the hobby. He didn't have any overt political agenda in creating his own
> > custom minifig.
>
> Neither do we have such an agenda here; we're asserting that a non-yellow
> Lando/Mace/Panaka minifig would be cool and would do a better job of
> representing the character than the yellow minfigs now in use.
> It is interesting that so many (not you specifically, Tim) wish to dismiss
> the argument out of turn as racially-motivated, when in fact it is not.
> Instead, it is a matter of how effectively a character can be depicted. The
> Star Wars group has been littered with complaints about the color schemes of
> the Millennium Falcon and Darth Vader's TIE Fighter, but no one rose up to
> dismiss those concerns as "racist" or "ship color-ist". It was generally
> agreed in those cases that the inaccurate colors prevented satisfactory
> representation of the respective ships, without any forced subtext of racism.
> Why, then, can we not discuss a minifig's color without calling it racism?
>
> > And yes, when I was a kid, I was one who wanted to see black minifigs
> > introduced, and was curious as to why they didn't make them.
>
> When did this change? And why?
>
> Dave!
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Message has 4 Replies:
Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: Concerns with Racial Attitudes and Lego
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| (...) No one in any argument here has suggested that skin color has any effect on a person's human-ness. (...) **snip of several recent, anecdotal examples** These are fine, of course, and it's great to see that Lego has opened its marketing to a (...) (24 years ago, 11-Aug-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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