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(...) I wouldn't bother quoting the mathematical world at me. I'm well aware of what defines a mathematical proof or disproof. But... since you seem to wish to be pedantic I said what FURTHER point does it bring. The postulate was already disproved (...) (18 years ago, 5-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Contributor Agreement License details - updated version
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(...) Apparently with all the legal posturing going on here, people missed this. Seems to me there's no need to fret about anything. Use the tools as you always have and nothing bad will happen. Play on. Allister (18 years ago, 5-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Contributor Agreement License details - updated version
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(...) I agree I shouldn't have used that word although it wasn't meant in a particularly offensive manner. Since Don did not seem to take it too badly I didn't apologise for it but had he I would have. And frankly there are more ways to be rude than (...) (18 years ago, 5-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Contributor Agreement License details - updated version
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(...) I hear you, but I still find it difficult to read posts like Tim's. It's important to me, I just couldn't let it slide. As you say, probably a sign of my age (celebrated my 53:rd birthday yesterday). (18 years ago, 5-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Contributor Agreement License details - updated version
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(...) Hi Anders, Please don't get all excited about the word rubbish. I'm OK with it. You and I are from a different generation and apparently "smack talk" is the language of the new generation. This was pretty mild by the new standard, so let's (...) (18 years ago, 5-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Contributor Agreement License details - updated version
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(...) hi anders, the readme is nothing than a human readable version of the legal text (which in the end tells us that lawyers are not human) and it is basically a copy of this: (URL) (the steerco haven't written it), we (the 2006/2007 steerco) (...) (18 years ago, 5-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Contributor Agreement License details - updated version
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(...) Now this is more along the lines of what I'd consider a derivative work according to the license, but only if their part file library actually includes ldraw primitive files, or text copied from the parts or primitive files. If they just (...) (18 years ago, 5-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Contributor Agreement License details - updated version
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(...) It's quite condescending to express the view that alternative libraries are created/used just 'in order to avoid writing ...'. All of those alternatives were in existance long before the 'license'. Actually it sounds more like ldraw.org is (...) (18 years ago, 5-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Contributor Agreement License details - updated version
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(...) They provide exactly that. *Counter examples* to your argumentation. If you don't know what to do with a counter example, that's your problem. In the mathematics world, *one* counter example is enough to make a 'proof' invalid. I invalidated (...) (18 years ago, 5-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Contributor Agreement License details - updated version
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I missed this one at first. (...) What kind of language is that for a LDRAW official? Even if hiding behind '(in a personal capacity)'? I deplore this kind of 'argumentation' - you're just expressing your own opinion, and have no right calling the (...) (18 years ago, 5-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Contributor Agreement License details - updated version
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(...) I did think of Anton Rave's library and LGEO but there aren't a lot of models which use exclusively parts from LGEO (I have never used Anton's library). Sure you can provide a counter-example and of course LDraw.org has no control over renders (...) (18 years ago, 5-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) This is also not true. BlockCAD has its own part library, not at all connected to the LDRAW library, but BlockCAD *can* save a model in the LDRAW format, thereby making it possible to render a BlockCAD model with the LDRAW compatible programs. (...) (18 years ago, 5-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) This is definitely wrong! There is nothing unique with the LDRAW library. It doesn't have a special place in the universe - it's just another information collection. My BlockCAD program can load *some* LDRAW model files and render a picture (...) (18 years ago, 5-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) Actually there is. Anton Raves' library comes immediately to mind. Using that you're not using any information from the LDRAW parts, only the placement information in the model file. And his is not the only library of Lego parts in the (...) (18 years ago, 5-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Contributor Agreement License details - updated version
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In lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, Timothy Gould wrote: [snip-snap] (...) the steerco has considered the option to change the license but considering that we weren't able to track down 18 people last time (URL) (we are still 33 parts behind in the rewrite (...) (18 years ago, 5-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Contributor Agreement License details - updated version
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(...) don, you wouldn't have a model file at all without the parts library. at least not without extreme effort because of the missing visual feedback. I'll give you some codes: CM051P09.dat, HF300P09.dat, CM060P14.dat, CM053P03.dat, CM250P02.dat (...) (18 years ago, 5-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Contributor Agreement License details - updated version
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(...) If you are referring to the non-pursuit section of the readme it is most definitely in accord with the license. As you say a license is only as good as its enforcement but stating a policy of enforcement does not change the license. As an (...) (18 years ago, 5-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Contributor Agreement License details - updated version
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(...) I agree. The way the readme puts it is not in accord with what the license requires. Furthermore, because there is a disclaimer in readme that it is not a license, that whole bit can and should be ignored and only the license followed. If (...) (18 years ago, 5-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Contributor Agreement License details - updated version
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(...) I'm not sure I agree with the ethical imperative argument. There are plenty of old laws on statute books that no-one follows or expects to follow but are still there. Either way, ethical decisions are made on an individual basis (including the (...) (18 years ago, 5-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) In that case I agree it wouldn't be a derivative work. I am becoming more and more convinced that an MPD isn't actually a derivative work. (...) If people are willing to go to the effort of making or using an alternate part library in order to (...) (18 years ago, 5-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Contributor Agreement License details - updated version
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(...) Sorry, that doesn't work for me. The license describes how someone must behave; lack of prosecution for non-compliance doesn't erase the ethical imperative to follow the agreement. And, since the non-commercial disclaimer is not actually part (...) (18 years ago, 5-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Contributor Agreement License details - updated version
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(...) Actually I'm fairly certain the folks at Lego could easily devise a way to import a model file into LDD on a PC with NONE of the official Ldraw files installed. They could then generate a rendering in LDD and publish that on the internet, (...) (18 years ago, 5-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) I figured you were which is why I called it unfair. Without the library the render cannot exist. Without the library the LDraw file is just a meaningless list of transformations and codes. (...) Which is precisely why we are stating we will (...) (18 years ago, 5-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Contributor Agreement License details - updated version
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(...) Actually I was thinking of the LDraw library as the chisel(s), and to be honest, I don't understand why it's an unfair analogy. It just seems obvious to me. But anyhow, look, I like Ldraw files and renders. I want to see more of them. And (...) (18 years ago, 5-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Contributor Agreement License details - updated version
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(...) That is not a fair analogy. Arguably POVray (or ldglite or ldview) is the chisel but the parts are a necessary part of the final work. There is no way to use a typical LDraw file without the parts library to render a scene. (...) You haven't (...) (18 years ago, 5-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Contributor Agreement License details - updated version
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(...) I disagree. A sculpture may contain obvious marks from a distinctive chisel, but is not a derivative of that chisel. Now if you make a new chisel based on the distinctive chisel, that's a derivative work. (...) Again, I disagree. We clearly (...) (18 years ago, 5-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Contributor Agreement License details - updated version
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(...) In the case of model files I agree it is muddy however a model file means little without the parts to use it. If people wish to try to sell LDraw files without an attribution they are welcome to do so and you are probably right that LDraw.org (...) (18 years ago, 5-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Contributor Agreement License details - updated version
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(...) Wow! In my opinion, that's an extremely poor interpretation of "derivative works". Consider the model file. It most likely contains no actual bits of the LDRAW library. It simply contains references to the parts in the library, by names like (...) (18 years ago, 5-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Contributor Agreement License details - updated version
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(...) Precisely. Tim (18 years ago, 3-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Contributor Agreement License details - updated version
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(...) So, basically, the licence means you need to credit LDraw whenever you render/create a model from it, but SteerCo aren't bothered unless its for commercial use? (18 years ago, 2-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: LDraw.org's January 2007 Model and Scene Of The Month Winners
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(...) Hey, that would be me! (URL) Thanks to everybody who voted. More pictures of 'My Room' at (URL) Brickshelf>. (URL) play well, Jan Folkersma (18 years ago, 2-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, FTX)
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| | Re: Contributor Agreement License details - updated version
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(...) hi folks, taking into account all your valuable input the steerco has reworded the initial CAreadme.txt file in response to concerns which have been arisen in the disussion. please learn that we haven't changed a single character in the actual (...) (18 years ago, 2-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.announce) !
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| | LDraw.org's January 2007 Model and Scene Of The Month Winners
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Congratulations to the winners of the January 2007 Model/Scene Of The Month (MOTM/SOTM) contests: (URL) MOTM, Mindstorms NXT cup collecting robot by Henrik Dalsager Christensen> (URL) SOTM, My Room by Jan Folkersma> The voting for the February 2007 (...) (18 years ago, 1-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.announce, FTX)
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| | Reminder: 2007 Steering Committee Nominations closing at the end of the month
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Hi folks, we are half way down with the nominations. As outlined here: (URL) will close at the end of the month and elections will start the day after. Only those candidates that have been nominated, seconded, and have accepted as outlined, will be (...) (18 years ago, 1-Feb-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Introducing RACHAL - the Raytracing Challenge
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(...) Hi Zach, Glad you've got ideas :) I think the disco scene was a too hard in retrospect. While we may throw in some reflection and trasparency in future models I doubt there will ever be anything as shiny as the Disco scene. Challenging is one (...) (18 years ago, 31-Jan-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Introducing RACHAL - the Raytracing Challenge
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(...) Awesome! Very nice model, and it should be a little easier than the disco scene due to minimal, if any, reflectives and transparents. I already have plenty of ideas, and can't wait to go tinkering. (18 years ago, 31-Jan-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Introducing RACHAL - the Raytracing Challenge
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Hi all, If you keep an eye on new articles on LDraw.org you may have noticed two new ones with the title RACHAL. Well, we haven't got a replicant working for us but we are relaunching my old raytracing challenges as part of LDraw.org. (URL) brief (...) (18 years ago, 30-Jan-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.cad.ray, lugnet.announce) !!
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| | Re: New LDraw Contest: POTM Part Of The Month
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(...) hi james, all entries will be collected throughout the month and then added to the page - offline. when voting starts no new entries will be added. just think of the MOTM/SOTM contest. it wouldn't be fair. what you are seeing right now will go (...) (18 years ago, 30-Jan-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: New LDraw Contest: POTM Part Of The Month
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I have an idea about the ldraw contests. Why not send an email when a new entry is added to the webpage? Without some sort of reminder, I most likely wont even think to go vote. James (18 years ago, 30-Jan-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: New LDraw Parts
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(...) Thank you for your polite enquiry. Externally, the situation is little changed since this announcement in September: (URL) a lot is going on in the background. Firstly we need to reformat the headers of the existing official library to conform (...) (18 years ago, 28-Jan-07, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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