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(...) Nah, the work is easily automated. -Orion (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) I don't think it will fix much. There will still be nothing to prevent people from selling kits or high quality posters. Since this issue is only partially addressed by making the source public, I don't think changing the rules of the MOTM (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) I think you're signing yourself up for a lot of work but it's a terrifically nifty idea! (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) I would too, IF they weren't the original author. And making the dat public enables that sort of behaviour far too easily. Hence my aversion to it. On the other hand, if they were the author, I think it's perfectly fine. If your model is good (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) Nothing. That doesn't make it right though. And as part of the proposed change (which I do like a lot, btw!), we have a chance to fix this as well. (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) What's preventing people from doing this now (for both contests)? -Orion (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) Why? If they don't want to publish the DAT, they can still enter the Scene categrory, because that's all you get without the DAT file, one view of the model (AKA a scene). My personal favorite part of lugnet is clicking on the DAT links and (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) limit the submissions from those who are unwilling/unable to install the specified program on their machine. This is why I liked Larry's idea to submit the DAT code instead and to have the contest coordinator do the renders. This way, if the (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) So you wouldn't have a problem with someone saying (on their e-shop) "buy the instructions to build this winner of the official Ldraw.org MOTM contest winner"? I would. (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) If the model has commercial ties before or during the contest then I might (note the word might) have a problem with the submission. In my opinion, the reasoning behind an author's decision to keep the source private is irrelevent and not the (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) If you feel that POV rendering gives too many degrees of freedom, why not define MOTM as L3LAB, Ortographic, renderings. Then there's no discussion of landscape, sky, Anton Raves' parts, etc. etc. L3LAB rendering also shows the construction of (...) (21 years ago, 4-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) Let's please make this explicitly clear: It is then all right to use the contest as a means to advertise a commercial model or a commercial product based on the model? This is a glaring pitfall if sources are not requested. I thought it would (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) To which post? Your post? (...) All the rest of the thread before your post is irrelevant? I'm not sure that's what you meant to say, you may want to consider a rewording to clarify. (...) I disagree. While they may not have been the decision (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) I found this question somewhat surprising, frankly. (...) I'm hoping that it only appears to be the central issue because the rest of the proposal has met with general agreement and that if this issue can be resolved, it will be speedily (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Proposed changes to MOTM Submission guidelines
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(...) Agreed. -Tim (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) The loss is the chance for us to see the creative effort of another and possibly be inspired by it. The fact that this has become the central issue of my proposed changes flabbergasts me. It takes absolutly no effort on our part to honor an (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) I agree with Jacob. Also, the discussion prior to this post doesn't really matter - a decision wasn't made in that discussion, so what people who participated in it thought is really irrelevant. If someone chooses not to participate in the (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) OK, I'll accept that and agree that it's a goal of the contest. Going forward though, I think we're still suffering from not having formal organization in place, in an ideal world this proposal would have passed through the steering committee (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) I agree with Larry about this issue. I consider imposing a restiction like this to be both excessively exculsionary and extremely petty. -Orion (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) Well. We may have forgotten to write it down, but I remember it as one of the ideas, when we originally started MOTM (and I wrote the first two versions of the software for MOTM/SOTM). (...) It is kind of hard to arrive at consensus during (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) I looked here: (URL) and here: (URL) I didn't see that as an explicitly stated goal. I may have missed it somewhere else though. (...) I'm not sure I agree. Perhaps slightly less than if they are. I think there are lots of learning (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) I know. (...) Because learning more about what we can do with the LDraw format (IMO) is one of the aims of the contest. And if the files aren't published we don't learn much. Making sure we are allowed to publish the DAT/MPD files also means (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) I think this is an unreasonable restriction. I'd be interested in understanding why this is something that should be insisted on. In the offline discussions prior to presenting this proposal and elsewhere in the thread, there seem to be a (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) I agree with your ambition. It makes good sense to let MOTM focus strictly on the models and let SOTM cover more broader aspects of presenting models. (...) Makes good sense. And I would prefer that we insist that the submissitted files can be (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) I agree with this in spirit. Yes, bring the attention back to the models. However I do have some alternative ideas, or at least variations on the ideas presented. Initially I thought the best way would be to make the dat files available so one (...) (21 years ago, 5-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) Models can be copyrighted for different reasons, like: 1. They are commissioned commercially 2. They are sold by the creator 3. They belong to a larger copyrighted work (i.e. a book) While I respect copyrights (it comes with the age, it (...) (21 years ago, 4-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) All I have to add is a 'me too' to Tim's thought. I'll never pay for a copyrighted .dat file but that doesn't mean that people don't have the right to keep the files they make private. Not to sidetrack further, but the matter becomes nastily (...) (21 years ago, 4-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Proposed changes to MOTM Submission guidelines
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--snip-- (...) BEFORE this topic went public, there was discussion (within LDraw) about submitions from indiviudals that might later on want to make the models commercially avaliable. By submitting their LDraw files and making them public their (...) (21 years ago, 4-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, FTX)
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(...) I was thinking, what if someone submitted a model team style MOC or an even larger Technic MOC, say a truck and they had added a very detailed crane behind the cab, from the rear view it could end up quite small and possibly obscured by the (...) (21 years ago, 4-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) I agree (strongly) with Orion here. While I'd love to have copies of other people's LDraw files when voting for the contest, ultimately the decision to make the source of a model public should remain up to the author. -Tim (21 years ago, 4-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Proposed changes to MOTM Submission guidelines
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(...) Agreed. -Tim (21 years ago, 4-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) I still would like to respect the author's choice not to have the raw DAT code posted, it is after all his/her property. -Orion (21 years ago, 4-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) I think this analogy is not so great. The reason why we can't take things home from a museum is that things there are unique and in a museum more people can come see it. In the virtual world it's rather the other way around: things are not (...) (21 years ago, 4-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) While I was at work, I thought of another great reason to switch to DAT code enties: instructions on how to build the model can be made available if the auther allows. There are quite a few MOTM entries that I'd love to build but can't because (...) (21 years ago, 4-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) It not so much that models are winning because they're rendered better, it's that I feel some entries are being overlooked because they look "worse". To me, this seems unfair to the beginner who, while having great modelling ideas, hasn't yet (...) (21 years ago, 4-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) While I understand the desire to have all models publicly available, I respect the authors desire to keep his/her efforts out of the public domain. A great analogy of this is that you can go a museum and look at an exhibit, you can even take (...) (21 years ago, 4-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Proposed changes to MOTM Submission guidelines
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hello all, My compliments to Orion and his efforts to make the MOTM contest more fair. But I do wonder why there is a need for this. Have there been doubtful submissions in the past? My biggest puzzle however is the copyight issue. Steve, in reply (...) (21 years ago, 4-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) If you want to focus on presentation, then Scene is the contest for you, that's the idea behind this idea. Leveling the playing field via automation encourages everyone to focus on the model. We DON'T want someone to win because they had (...) (21 years ago, 4-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) clip (...) I can understand your concern as to shift the focus more towards the modeling side of the process, yet am concerned that it seems as if the rendering process will be come almost an afterthought if your suggestions are followed. (...) (21 years ago, 4-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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(...) Just to point out - this discussion is only about the Model of the Month. The Scene of the Month contest would not be change. This would help sharpen focus of MOTM on the actual LDraw model, and SOTM would focus on composition, rendering (...) (21 years ago, 4-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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