Subject:
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Re: some thoughts on ldraw parts
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.cad
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Date:
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Wed, 27 Sep 2000 16:51:49 GMT
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Viewed:
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694 times
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Here's a list of the types of files in the ldraw\parts directory:
General parts - like 3001.dat, the 2x4 brick.
Components - pieces only released by TLC as part of an assembly, like
3149.dat, the base for the classic 2x5 plate-hinge.
Composite parts - pieces made out out of other pieces, like 3829.dat,
the car steering wheel.
Welded parts - a variation of Composite parts. These parts are
permanently joined together. Example: 6168a.dat, the 2x2x11 round
pillar.
Segments - sections of flexible parts, like 754.dat, a segment of the
minifig/space hose.
TLC Shortcuts - files which document actual LEGO numbers, usually for
specific colors/treatments of parts. Example: 71014.dat, the
castle greatsword.
Forwarding Addresses - the '~Moved to' stub files, like 415.dat.
These types seem pretty straight-forward, but there are still some pieces
that don't fit cleanly. For example, minifig parts (torsos, arms, hands,
hips, legs and decorated heads) are all component parts -- TLC only
releases these preassembled into upper body and lower body sections. But
people routinely disassemble these prebuilt components to swap parts
around.
In lugnet.cad, Adam Howard wrote:
> Currently there are a lot of parts that are simply short-cuts to other parts.
> These should be retired and removed from the list. The reason they exist it to
> support backward-compatability with models that were created with the old part
> numbers. Once a part number is updated, I believe a short-cut to the original
> part number should be available for a short period of time to allow the people
> who used the old part to update their models. But after a specific amount of
> time the old part number should be removed from the parts list. People may argue
> that current part-list programs handle this problem, but if you ever use LEDIT
> and have to do a manual search through all parts in the list you will respect
> this problem.
If you use mklist.exe to build the parts list, specifying the -m option
will leave the '~Moved To' files out of the parts list. Then you won't see
these files at all.
mklist -m
> Plus it is a bad legacy problem that needs to be fixed not
> temporarily remedied.
Huh? I'm not following you here. The moved-to stubs are there to keep
compatibility with existing models.
Another reason they exist: we can't delete files from users' harddrives.
We can only add and overwrite files. Leaving the obsolete file alone would
be bad, so we've got to send a new version of the file. We can either send
out a moved-to stub, or we send an empty file, with the header '0 ~Delete
Me'[1]
The only other alternative (currently) would be to tell everyone to delete
their ldraw\parts directory, and reinstall complete.exe.
> Many part numbers that are currently short-cuts will
> eventually be replaced by the part that they really represent, and the short-cut
> link will no longer exist (I believe this is our current policy). If people do
> not update their models, then there will be a time (under our current policies)
> where that model will be rendered with the newer parts instead of the original
> one used.
That does happen occasionally, because a part had been released with an
incorrect number, and it often isn't discovered until someone makes the
part that *should* have that number. All of these situations are
documented in the models\complete.txt file, included in the complete.exe
distribution.
> That is another good reason to implement a retirement scheme for
> updated part numbers.
c/updated/obsoleted/, but I don't follow your reasoning.
> Another reason we have /parts folder clutter is short-cut files for assembled
> parts that normally arrive that way in the package, like steering wheels, or
> power packs, etc. I think these short-cut files should be in the /parts folder,
> but the parts that make up these pre-assembled parts should be in the /parts/s
> folder.
The purpose of the parts/s/ folder is (generally) for subfiles which are
*not* complete, physical components, and that modellers will never have to
work with. IOW, it's a place for part authors to stuff subfiles which are
convenient for them, or required because of oddities of LDraw, but arene't
true LEGO parts.
It's not the place for elements which are legitimate 'parts' for modellers
to work with.
> we should consider creating a /parts_sc folder for short-cuts to assembled
> parts.
No, that would be backwards. The shortcut files exist because they are
*easier* to work with than the component parts. If anything, the component
parts should be obscured.
What I think would resolve this is to mark the 'component parts' -- like
all the sections of the shock absorbers -- and also mark the 'composite
parts' -- aka, 'complete assembly shortcuts'. Edit programs could hide the
component parts, but give the user a function (like on a right-click menu)
to 'explode' the composite part into its components.
The standard way of 'marking' component files is to put a ~tilde on the
front of the name. This practice has been (somewhat) discontinued, because
people *wanted* to be able to find the components. If we can put the
'exploding composite' idea into action, we could also reintroduce the
~tilde notation, allowing the components parts to be hidden.
> Another reason is duplicate parts- these are parts that are exactly the same
> part, but have been pre-specified with specific color schemes. These need to go.
> They clutter up space and if someone wants to re-create a color scheme they can
> do so easily and then use the mpd file format to share the model with someone
> else.
These aren't 'duplicate' parts. The _underscore parts exist to document
those numbers known to be used by TLC for specific parts in specific
colors. If anything, they are more 'real' than the non-colored versions.
There was a lot of discussion when they were first proposed, the issues you
bring up were raised back then as well. The solution we use is a balance
between the needs of modellers and the need for the library to an accurate
record.
Also, the _underscore parts are all shortcut files; they take up less than
1K each.
> Another issue- and I don't know what the best solution is- parts with decals and
> stickers. Personally I think another folder for these should be created
> /parts_sd (parts with sticker/decal).
I'd rather see us get together a standard for stickers, so they can be
released as separate elements.
> These suggestions would clean out all the
> partial/duplicate/outdated(short-cuts)/and decalled parts leaving 'pure' parts
> in the /parts folder. This would have the effect of making the process of
> finding and selecting a part a lot easier, which is very important.
I agree with you, on the "the process of finding and selecting a part ...
is very important" statement. I don't know that your proposed changes will
address that issue.
--
Steve
1) 'Delete Me' files were distributed once or twice in the past, but I
don't remember the circumstances.
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: some thoughts on ldraw parts
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| I agree with you Adam. I think the list should be trimmed down. Currently there are a lot of parts that are simply short-cuts to other parts. These should be retired and removed from the list. The reason they exist it to support (...) (24 years ago, 27-Sep-00, to lugnet.cad)
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