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Hi Pawel and Craig.
There seems to be huge confusion here as to the size of the realms. I suggest
you talk about this in greater detail, since many people are not quite sure
about "filling up a realm", and whether a realm is a full sized country or the
size of a large fortress.
The scale is not quite clear either.
I suggest that, in order to avoid disappointment (like Jeff Stembel wondering
about his country for example) you come out with a clearer statement of the
whole map concept.
I'm not intending to sound mean or formal, it's just that we are really
confused! :-(
TIA,
Shiri
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In lugnet.castle, Shiri Dori writes:
> Hi Pawel and Craig.
>
> There seems to be huge confusion here as to the size of the realms. I suggest
> you talk about this in greater detail, since many people are not quite sure
> about "filling up a realm", and whether a realm is a full sized country or the
> size of a large fortress.
> The scale is not quite clear either.
>
> I suggest that, in order to avoid disappointment (like Jeff Stembel wondering
> about his country for example) you come out with a clearer statement of the
> whole map concept.
>
> I'm not intending to sound mean or formal, it's just that we are really
> confused! :-(
>
> TIA,
> Shiri
thank you, shiri!
i was just coming to post, hopefuly, just such a thing.
aaarrrghhh!
posts are coming in so fast, can't respond to them all! the last thing i
wanted to do was Castle World into "Castle WHIRLED"! please read the posts
i've made trying to clarify some points.
i thought people would be pleased. each balladeer starts out with three
realms, with the gaining of additional realms achieved through archiving 4
stories with their models. the dimentions of which i outlined for approval.
each realm is a 16x16 grid of 32x32 baseplates. that's over a 13 foot square
of lego baseplate in human terms.
measurement in CW should be in lego pegs rather than human miles or feet.
this is a mini-fig world, where they live. mini-fig scale is dificult to
average to say the least, and generally breaks down to what looks right in
context. (i mean when was the last time you drank from a cup/ chalice that
was as big as your torso? c,mon!) this is a lego world, where earth and
humans don't exist.
in order to support the interactive aspect of CW, a unified scale of some
sort is absolutely needed. a general average made. i made sure the largest
castle structure id'ever seen,(m. uring's, cmiiw) would fit inside one
realm, and went wth that. hey, we can always bump it to a 32x32 square of
32x32 baseplates, but this seems rather ludicrous.
our world can't spring forth fully blown. we have to build it. HEY! we GET
to build IT! we enjoy building, remember?
the map is like the nervous system of the CW site. the creations on it are
flesh, blood, heart and soul of Castle World. i've kept a tight lip for
fear of causing confusion prior to the accompanying graphics and data base.
i'm leary to reveal more now. as much as i'd like to make a clearer
statement of the whole map concept, without the graphics, i'm afraid that
would be impossible, and only result in more confusion.
VERY IMPORTANT SPOILER:
what i've designed is not so much THE map, but a mapping system. ~ a
modular system with infinite possibilities.(very similar/ based on LEGO)
balladeers will even eventually be able to terra-form their own
sub-continents if they wish. a system where we build the world outward, and
infinely.
that's right. infinite. ~that's my last spoiler until the graphics are on
line. please keep speculation down to a dull roar, so i can get the rest of
the needed work done. until then, rest assured that CW will NEVER run out of
space. the bad news ~ CW is as "flat" as a fritter! ah, but we don't ever
have to worry about going over the edge! we'll have endless seas to sail,
and always undiscovered country further out.
but CW does need a unified scale that we can all relate to and deal with.
i'm seeking the best concrete average, and there's no way that's going to
fit the exact great expectations of 15-20 different people! would asking for
compromise on top of courtesy, cooperation, and creativity be too much?
as lego builders, we are quite used to working in systems, and i'm sure
once it is provided, we will all feel at home there, and discover new ways
to work within it together.
i beg your collective trust, confidence, and patience. it's best that i
keep a tight lip and get the graphics done asap. a small, attractive island
realm in the legocean is no more a problem for Castle World to provide than
a 50 realm sub-continent, ideal for building a vast kingdom. i promise. i
want nothing more than for every balladeer to be satisfied, and will find a
way to accomidate each as best i can.
please, y'all, try not to worry any more about the map until the new
graphics are on the site. i don't know when this will be, but it'll
certainly be as soon as i can humanly possibly do it! i'm as anxious as
everyone else to get into CW and play! also consider the tremendous amount
of work involved.
as i said in the original scale post, which started the uproar, use this
time to work on your wonderful models, characters, and stories. i look at
your sites everyday, and have nothing but admiration and respect for you
all. each and every creation is a work of art, and Castle World is merely a
gallery.
later ~ craig~
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Craig, I'm sure I speak for the rest of us when I say that we all greatly
appreciate the work you're doing with Castle World: the time and thought you're
putting into this is one of the concrete reasons this will work out at all.
I believe that there is a problem with the amount of space in each realm. I
think we all want to spread things out as much as we can, and have lots of room
in each realm for several major interacting structures, and some distance
between them, before we have to move to another realm. The more we can fit in
each realm, the more likely each realm will be to spawn enough stories to earn
enother realm.
Speaking for myself, I think a 4x4 grid of 32x32 maps, that is 128x128 studs,
would serve very well for a nanofig realm map (see my other post). Each of
these studs would end up translating into a 32x32 baseplate. I believe this is
the kind of scale for a single realm the many people would like to see... but,
please, everyone let me know if I'm not reflecting your ideas here.
In any event, thanks for taking the role of champion for this mapping project!
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In lugnet.castle, Jason Catena writes:
> Craig, I'm sure I speak for the rest of us when I say that we all greatly
> appreciate the work you're doing with Castle World: the time and thought you're
> putting into this is one of the concrete reasons this will work out at all.
>
> I believe that there is a problem with the amount of space in each realm. I
> think we all want to spread things out as much as we can, and have lots of room
> in each realm for several major interacting structures, and some distance
> between them, before we have to move to another realm. The more we can fit in
> each realm, the more likely each realm will be to spawn enough stories to earn
> enother realm.
>
> Speaking for myself, I think a 4x4 grid of 32x32 maps, that is 128x128 studs,
> would serve very well for a nanofig realm map (see my other post). Each of
> these studs would end up translating into a 32x32 baseplate. I believe this is
> the kind of scale for a single realm the many people would like to see... but,
> please, everyone let me know if I'm not reflecting your ideas here.
>
> In any event, thanks for taking the role of champion for this mapping project!
thank you, so much, jason!
this is the perfect reasoning we need.
if you look back into the original CW posts, pawel originally mentioned
mapping the world on a grid of 4x4, to which shiri responded 4x4 _what_?
what indeed.
it doesn't matter. the 4x4 grid aspect is the primary building structure
in the CW map, as well as the overhead view of lego proportional
relationship. these realms can surely be as large as you suggest! (128x128
of 32x32 bp's) i'd love it! i thought people may have gawked at the prospect
of that much space. guess i was wrong there! 16x16 was the smallest i'd go,
but it still seemed small to me. so fishing for feedback, i started there. i
am so sorry to have upset anyone.
realm measurements in 32x32 baseplates, in the square.
128 is great! it "feels" a lot more natural in mini-fig walking distance,
(which is the best scale reference i've ever heard!) who's for going
bigger!? ~ although 128 sounds right. here's why:
bear in mind, that a _truly_ impressive CW country or extra large large
kingdom should reasonably be made from several adjoining realms. don't you
think? jeff's huge kingdom should appear much larger on the map than, say,
pawel's isolated stormbrachter fortress, or shiri's small island cove. such
large countries and kingdoms should exist, and are accomidated for in the
system. they simply need to be "built". this won't be as laborious a you may
think. everybody starts with three realms (see chessboard thread) by
strategicaly adding a fourth realm, you claim not only it, but the
encompassed NB, which can then be built on. really _two_ realms gained, if
you think about it! add two more, after eight ballads, and enclose another
NB, making it 3 more. now, after only 12 ballads, you have a good sized,
large kingdom or country comprised of 8 realms.
jeff s., you could easly break your massive history into enough
"chapters",(each qualifying as a ballad, my friend) to claim a massive area
of several realms right off the bat. after that, you'd have a lot of
building to do! if you have plans to go bigger, the last of your worries
will be running into another baladeer's realm. let your wishes be made, and
i'm sure your fellow balladeers will do nothing but support you in it, and
steer clear. p and i are also going to coordinate and monitor these things.
when you reach 20 or 30 realms, you may be dominating a sub-continent, and
run into a few smaller realms or realm-doms that you may want to sign
treaties with. someone building a small village may want to put in your path
of expansion to have it absorbed and protected under your country, even.
we'll never run out of space, so there's no reason we should be cramped,
or worried about land grabs. when we first start out, it will even seem
that we're very far apart.(i'm guessing 20 realms or so) this will rapidly
change. i anticipate CW growing outward quickly at first, but slower later
on, as every expansion surrounds the previous square, creating MUCH more
land space every time.
eventually, those of us who are the first to settle in, will comprise an
area known in Castle World as the "Inner Realms". these are the innermost
points of the four continents, where the big blue legocean is located. since
our world has no end, it must have a center. in the center of the legocean,
is the center of the world. there is a 8x8 realm square in the center of our
world where no one can go. all of CW's rivers and seas flow into a vortex
located there. if mini-figs sail in there,they are gone from Castle World
forever. this center is represented on the Castle World flag by the time
twister disk. (suprise!)
throughout the realms, innumerable different theories, speculations, and
even religions have sprung up regarding this vortex at the center of the
world...
...but that's another story... ;-)
later ~ craig~
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In lugnet.castle, Craig Hamilton writes:
> In lugnet.castle, Jason Catena writes:
> > Craig, I'm sure I speak for the rest of us when I say that we all greatly
> > appreciate the work you're doing with Castle World: the time and thought
> > you're
> > putting into this is one of the concrete reasons this will work out at all.
I'm sure you are, Jason! Craig and Pawel are working 24, 7 (well, almost) and
I know it's gonna work out great! Even if we get some rocky points, I'm 100%
assured that it's only because we're heading toward a mountain, and that
eventually we'll be standing atop it and viewing the beautiful lands and
realms of Castle World!!!
(forgive the metaphorical speech - I didn't have english class today so I have
to make it up somehow ;-)
> >
> > I believe that there is a problem with the amount of space in each realm. I
> > think we all want to spread things out as much as we can, and have lots of
> > room
> > in each realm for several major interacting structures, and some distance
> > between them, before we have to move to another realm. The more we can fit in
> > each realm, the more likely each realm will be to spawn enough stories to
> > earn
> > enother realm.
> >
> > Speaking for myself, I think a 4x4 grid of 32x32 maps, that is 128x128 studs,
> > would serve very well for a nanofig realm map (see my other post). Each of
> > these studs would end up translating into a 32x32 baseplate. I believe this
> > is
> > the kind of scale for a single realm the many people would like to see...
I agree. A 'far off' view of the world would be great, so you can view more
buildings at smaller scales.
> thank you, so much, jason!
>
> this is the perfect reasoning we need.
>
> if you look back into the original CW posts, pawel originally mentioned
> mapping the world on a grid of 4x4, to which shiri responded 4x4 _what_?
>
> what indeed.
>
> it doesn't matter. the 4x4 grid aspect is the primary building structure
> in the CW map, as well as the overhead view of lego proportional
> relationship. these realms can surely be as large as you suggest! (128x128
> of 32x32 bp's)
> i'd love it! i thought people may have gawked at the prospect
> of that much space. guess i was wrong there! 16x16 was the smallest i'd go,
> but it still seemed small to me. so fishing for feedback, i started there. i
> am so sorry to have upset anyone.
Don't worry bout it! We all had different ideas about how CW will be, so even
if it causes some disappointment, it's better if you tell us this now than to
tell us this AFTER you finish all the hard work, and discover we didn't want
it like that. I agree that posting this has caused some dispution but it's
better to get over these disputes now...
>
> realm measurements in 32x32 baseplates, in the square.
> 128 is great! it "feels" a lot more natural in mini-fig walking distance,
> (which is the best scale reference i've ever heard!) who's for going
> bigger!? ~ although 128 sounds right. here's why:
>
> bear in mind, that a _truly_ impressive CW country or extra large large
> kingdom should reasonably be made from several adjoining realms. don't you
> think? jeff's huge kingdom should appear much larger on the map than, say,
> pawel's isolated stormbrachter fortress, or shiri's small island cove. such
> large countries and kingdoms should exist, and are accomidated for in the
> system. they simply need to be "built". this won't be as laborious a you may
> think. everybody starts with three realms (see chessboard thread) by
> strategicaly adding a fourth realm, you claim not only it, but the
> encompassed NB, which can then be built on. really _two_ realms gained, if
> you think about it! add two more, after eight ballads, and enclose another
> NB, making it 3 more. now, after only 12 ballads, you have a good sized,
> large kingdom or country comprised of 8 realms.
OK! I see what you mean by Pawel "chess" post now. You can only build on a
"black" realm if you have all the four surrounding it? Otherwise, you can only
take white" realms?
> jeff s., you could easly break your massive history into enough
> "chapters",(each qualifying as a ballad, my friend) to claim a massive area
> of several realms right off the bat. after that, you'd have a lot of
> building to do! if you have plans to go bigger, the last of your worries
> will be running into another baladeer's realm. let your wishes be made, and
> i'm sure your fellow balladeers will do nothing but support you in it, and
> steer clear. p and i are also going to coordinate and monitor these things.
> when you reach 20 or 30 realms, you may be dominating a sub-continent, and
> run into a few smaller realms or realm-doms that you may want to sign
> treaties with. someone building a small village may want to put in your path
> of expansion to have it absorbed and protected under your country, even.
Yeah, like the feudalist-type serfs! (I love that system. Other than
Communism, it's my favorite throughout history - not that I think it's fair,
but it's great for lego castles... :)
> we'll never run out of space, so there's no reason we should be cramped,
> or worried about land grabs. when we first start out, it will even seem
> that we're very far apart.(i'm guessing 20 realms or so) this will rapidly
> change. i anticipate CW growing outward quickly at first, but slower later
> on, as every expansion surrounds the previous square, creating MUCH more
> land space every time.
Right! So by "filling" a realm (by either 4 ballads or buildings) you could
get one, two or more realms which would enlarge your "country", right? (Craig,
you MUST find a name for a balladeer's collection of realms! :) So then you
have much more space than you might need.
Here's a question. Can one earn a realm but not claim it immediately? For
example, I have three realms - more than enough for my tiny collection. But I
make eight ballads, just because I enjoy creating them. So can I claim one
realm now and save another "realm right" for later? I know, for example, that
in a few months I'll start a new project with some new characters, but I don't
know how close or far I want them to be from my current realms. So I want to
wait, and decide later.
Would that be OK?
> eventually, those of us who are the first to settle in, will comprise an
> area known in Castle World as the "Inner Realms". these are the innermost
> points of the four continents, where the big blue legocean is located. since
> our world has no end, it must have a center. in the center of the legocean,
> is the center of the world. there is a 8x8 realm square in the center of our
> world where no one can go. all of CW's rivers and seas flow into a vortex
> located there. if mini-figs sail in there,they are gone from Castle World
> forever. this center is represented on the Castle World flag by the time
> twister disk. (suprise!)
>
> throughout the realms, innumerable different theories, speculations, and
> even religions have sprung up regarding this vortex at the center of the
> world...
I love this! Potential, potential, potential!
>
> ...but that's another story... ;-)
Enough for five more ballads AT LEAST!!!
:-)
Thanks, Craig. This is clearer now. Infinite possibilities of land, a center,
as many or little realm space as we want... Great!
-Shiri
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In lugnet.castle, Craig Hamilton writes:
> In lugnet.castle, Shiri Dori writes:
> > Hi Pawel and Craig.
> >
> > There seems to be huge confusion here as to the size of the realms. I suggest
> > you talk about this in greater detail, since many people are not quite sure
> > about "filling up a realm", and whether a realm is a full sized country or the
> > size of a large fortress.
> > The scale is not quite clear either.
> >
> > I suggest that, in order to avoid disappointment (like Jeff Stembel wondering
> > about his country for example) you come out with a clearer statement of the
> > whole map concept.
> >
> > I'm not intending to sound mean or formal, it's just that we are really
> > confused! :-(
> >
> > TIA,
> > Shiri
>
>
> thank you, shiri!
>
> i was just coming to post, hopefuly, just such a thing.
>
> aaarrrghhh!
>
> posts are coming in so fast, can't respond to them all! the last thing i
> wanted to do was Castle World into "Castle WHIRLED"! please read the posts
> i've made trying to clarify some points.
>
> i thought people would be pleased. each balladeer starts out with three
> realms, with the gaining of additional realms achieved through archiving 4
> stories with their models. the dimentions of which i outlined for approval.
> each realm is a 16x16 grid of 32x32 baseplates. that's over a 13 foot square
> of lego baseplate in human terms.
>
> measurement in CW should be in lego pegs rather than human miles or feet.
> this is a mini-fig world, where they live. mini-fig scale is dificult to
> average to say the least, and generally breaks down to what looks right in
> context. (i mean when was the last time you drank from a cup/ chalice that
> was as big as your torso? c,mon!) this is a lego world, where earth and
> humans don't exist.
>
> in order to support the interactive aspect of CW, a unified scale of some
> sort is absolutely needed. a general average made. i made sure the largest
> castle structure id'ever seen,(m. uring's, cmiiw) would fit inside one
> realm, and went wth that. hey, we can always bump it to a 32x32 square of
> 32x32 baseplates, but this seems rather ludicrous.
er.. i take this back. it seems not ludicrous at all, anymore. i'm all for
128x128 now. 8-P
~ c~
> our world can't spring forth fully blown. we have to build it. HEY! we GET
> to build IT! we enjoy building, remember?
>
> the map is like the nervous system of the CW site. the creations on it are
> flesh, blood, heart and soul of Castle World. i've kept a tight lip for
> fear of causing confusion prior to the accompanying graphics and data base.
> i'm leary to reveal more now. as much as i'd like to make a clearer
> statement of the whole map concept, without the graphics, i'm afraid that
> would be impossible, and only result in more confusion.
>
> VERY IMPORTANT SPOILER:
>
> what i've designed is not so much THE map, but a mapping system. ~ a
> modular system with infinite possibilities.(very similar/ based on LEGO)
> balladeers will even eventually be able to terra-form their own
> sub-continents if they wish. a system where we build the world outward, and
> infinely.
>
> that's right. infinite. ~that's my last spoiler until the graphics are on
> line. please keep speculation down to a dull roar, so i can get the rest of
> the needed work done. until then, rest assured that CW will NEVER run out of
> space. the bad news ~ CW is as "flat" as a fritter! ah, but we don't ever
> have to worry about going over the edge! we'll have endless seas to sail,
> and always undiscovered country further out.
>
> but CW does need a unified scale that we can all relate to and deal with.
> i'm seeking the best concrete average, and there's no way that's going to
> fit the exact great expectations of 15-20 different people! would asking for
> compromise on top of courtesy, cooperation, and creativity be too much?
>
> as lego builders, we are quite used to working in systems, and i'm sure
> once it is provided, we will all feel at home there, and discover new ways
> to work within it together.
>
> i beg your collective trust, confidence, and patience. it's best that i
> keep a tight lip and get the graphics done asap. a small, attractive island
> realm in the legocean is no more a problem for Castle World to provide than
> a 50 realm sub-continent, ideal for building a vast kingdom. i promise. i
> want nothing more than for every balladeer to be satisfied, and will find a
> way to accomidate each as best i can.
>
> please, y'all, try not to worry any more about the map until the new
> graphics are on the site. i don't know when this will be, but it'll
> certainly be as soon as i can humanly possibly do it! i'm as anxious as
> everyone else to get into CW and play! also consider the tremendous amount
> of work involved.
>
> as i said in the original scale post, which started the uproar, use this
> time to work on your wonderful models, characters, and stories. i look at
> your sites everyday, and have nothing but admiration and respect for you
> all. each and every creation is a work of art, and Castle World is merely a
> gallery.
>
> later ~ craig~
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In lugnet.castle, craig hamilton wrote:
> that's right. infinite. ~that's my last spoiler until the graphics are on
> line. please keep speculation down to a dull roar, so i can get the rest of
> the needed work done. until then, rest assured that CW will NEVER run out of
> space. the bad news ~ CW is as "flat" as a fritter! ah, but we don't ever
> have to worry about going over the edge! we'll have endless seas to sail,
> and always undiscovered country further out.
If you sail due East, you will eventually find the edge of the world. Bring
plenty of provisions. Watch out for a talking mouse with a sword.
Steve
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In lugnet.castle, Steve Bliss writes:
> In lugnet.castle, craig hamilton wrote:
>
> > that's right. infinite. ~that's my last spoiler until the graphics are on
> > line. please keep speculation down to a dull roar, so i can get the rest of
> > the needed work done. until then, rest assured that CW will NEVER run out of
> > space. the bad news ~ CW is as "flat" as a fritter! ah, but we don't ever
> > have to worry about going over the edge! we'll have endless seas to sail,
> > and always undiscovered country further out.
>
> If you sail due East, you will eventually find the edge of the world. Bring
> plenty of provisions. Watch out for a talking mouse with a sword.
Nonsense! There's always more to discover! Farther up and further in,
sons of Adam and daughters of Eve!
J, who remembers those books quite fondly
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In lugnet.castle, Jeff Johnston writes:
> In lugnet.castle, Steve Bliss writes:
> > In lugnet.castle, craig hamilton wrote:
> >
> > > that's right. infinite. ~that's my last spoiler until the graphics are on
> > > line. please keep speculation down to a dull roar, so i can get the rest of
> > > the needed work done. until then, rest assured that CW will NEVER run out of
> > > space. the bad news ~ CW is as "flat" as a fritter! ah, but we don't ever
> > > have to worry about going over the edge! we'll have endless seas to sail,
> > > and always undiscovered country further out.
> >
> > If you sail due East, you will eventually find the edge of the world. Bring
> > plenty of provisions. Watch out for a talking mouse with a sword.
>
> Nonsense! There's always more to discover! Farther up and further in,
> sons of Adam and daughters of Eve!
>
> J, who remembers those books quite fondly
I agree! In the land of Aslan, if you remember, there is always more to
discover - the real images of the shadows in this world...
Shiri, who still loves the Narnia series
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In lugnet.castle, Shiri Dori writes:
> In lugnet.castle, Jeff Johnston writes:
> > In lugnet.castle, Steve Bliss writes:
> > > In lugnet.castle, craig hamilton wrote:
> > >
> > > > that's right. infinite. ~that's my last spoiler until the graphics are on
> > > > line. please keep speculation down to a dull roar, so i can get the rest of
> > > > the needed work done. until then, rest assured that CW will NEVER run out • of
> > > > space. the bad news ~ CW is as "flat" as a fritter! ah, but we don't ever
> > > > have to worry about going over the edge! we'll have endless seas to sail,
> > > > and always undiscovered country further out.
> > >
> > > If you sail due East, you will eventually find the edge of the world. Bring
> > > plenty of provisions. Watch out for a talking mouse with a sword.
> >
> > Nonsense! There's always more to discover! Farther up and further in,
> > sons of Adam and daughters of Eve!
> >
> > J, who remembers those books quite fondly
>
> I agree! In the land of Aslan, if you remember, there is always more to
> discover - the real images of the shadows in this world...
>
> Shiri, who still loves the Narnia series
Thanks for clearing that up, Shiri. I was wondering what series you all were
talking about!
FTR, I never liked the Narnia series...
Jeff
"You can't be a hero hiding underneath your bed"
http://members.xoom.com/aulddragon/
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Jeff Stembel wrote:
> In lugnet.castle, Shiri Dori writes:
> > Shiri, who still loves the Narnia series
>
> Thanks for clearing that up, Shiri. I was wondering what series you all were
> talking about!
>
> FTR, I never liked the Narnia series...
It's OK. I'll forgive you if you have good taste in other literature.
> "You can't be a hero hiding underneath your bed"
How bizarre. If this is from the song I'm thinking of, it's the one that's in
the CD player in my LEGO room right now. Tenchi Muyo 2nd series? Or just a
bizarre coincidence?
J
--
sakura@mediaone.net is Jeff Johnston http://www.io.com/~jeffj
My LEGO Web page has moved! Go to: http://people.ne.mediaone.net/sakura
Check out my Trade List and Want List - * - Last Updated 12/19/1999
LEGO Geek Code: SP+ CA +++ (375/6075) PI +++ #++ S--/++ LS++ Hal M+ A++ YB73m
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In lugnet.castle, Jeff Johnston writes:
> Jeff Stembel wrote:
> > In lugnet.castle, Shiri Dori writes:
> > > Shiri, who still loves the Narnia series
> >
> > Thanks for clearing that up, Shiri. I was wondering what series you all
> > were talking about!
> >
> > FTR, I never liked the Narnia series...
>
> It's OK. I'll forgive you if you have good taste in other literature.
I like the Lord of the Rings and Wheel of Time... :)
I *did* try reading Narnia when I was real young, so that may've had something
to do with it. I haven't tried recently
>
> > "You can't be a hero hiding underneath your bed"
>
> How bizarre. If this is from the song I'm thinking of, it's the one that's in
> the CD player in my LEGO room right now. Tenchi Muyo 2nd series? Or just a
> bizarre coincidence?
Yup, its from "Pioneer". Great Song! I actually don't have the CD, as I found
it in MP3. :) The other song I like that is from the same CD (I believe) is
Talent for Love. Oh, and FTR, it *is* on my very extensive list of "Must
Buys". ;)
Let's see... The next line is "You've got to live the life you've created
inside your head", right? ;)
Jeff
"You can't be a hero hiding underneath your bed"
http://members.xoom.com/aulddragon/
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Jeff Stembel wrote:
Followups going to off-topic.fun cos this is getting way out there from .castle...
> In lugnet.castle, Jeff Johnston writes:
> > Jeff Stembel wrote:
> > > In lugnet.castle, Shiri Dori writes:
> > > > Shiri, who still loves the Narnia series
> > >
> > > Thanks for clearing that up, Shiri. I was wondering what series you all
> > > were talking about!
> > >
> > > FTR, I never liked the Narnia series...
> >
> > It's OK. I'll forgive you if you have good taste in other literature.
>
> I like the Lord of the Rings and Wheel of Time... :)
One outta two ain't bad. 8) Have you tried George R.R. Martin's _A Game of Thrones_?
It's a doorstop fantasy like Jordan but far better written IMHO.
> I *did* try reading Narnia when I was real young, so that may've had something
> to do with it. I haven't tried recently
Well, they are 'kids books'. Depends on how young you were. Now, I suspect it'd
be whether you were willing to put up with the obvious Christian allegory - I know
a lot of people get frustrated with that, but
> >
> > > "You can't be a hero hiding underneath your bed"
> >
> > How bizarre. If this is from the song I'm thinking of, it's the one that's in
> > the CD player in my LEGO room right now. Tenchi Muyo 2nd series? Or just a
> > bizarre coincidence?
>
> Yup, its from "Pioneer". Great Song! I actually don't have the CD, as I found
> it in MP3.
I managed to pick up the Pioneer 'Best of Best' at an anime con. I also have
a CD
with the same songs, in Japanese. No idea how different the lyrics are...
> The other song I like that is from the same CD (I believe) is
> Talent for Love. Oh, and FTR, it *is* on my very extensive list of "Must
> Buys". ;)
Talent for Love is on the Best of Best CD...not sure what Tenchi-specific CDs are
available but I'm CERTAIN there are some.
> Let's see... The next line is "You've got to live the life you've created
> inside your head", right? ;)
Pretty close! The BoB CD has a lyrics sheet inside it...
J
--
sakura@mediaone.net is Jeff Johnston http://www.io.com/~jeffj
My LEGO Web page has moved! Go to: http://people.ne.mediaone.net/sakura
Check out my Trade List and Want List - * - Last Updated 12/19/1999
LEGO Geek Code: SP+ CA +++ (375/6075) PI +++ #++ S--/++ LS++ Hal M+ A++ YB73m
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In lugnet.castle, Jeff Johnston writes:
> Jeff Stembel wrote:
>
> Followups going to off-topic.fun cos this is getting way out there from
> .castle...
>
> > In lugnet.castle, Jeff Johnston writes:
> > > Jeff Stembel wrote:
> > > > In lugnet.castle, Shiri Dori writes:
> > > > > Shiri, who still loves the Narnia series
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for clearing that up, Shiri. I was wondering what series you all
> > > > were talking about!
> > > >
> > > > FTR, I never liked the Narnia series...
> > >
> > > It's OK. I'll forgive you if you have good taste in other literature.
> >
> > I like the Lord of the Rings and Wheel of Time... :)
>
> One outta two ain't bad. 8) Have you tried George R.R. Martin's _A Game of
> Thrones_? It's a doorstop fantasy like Jordan but far better written IMHO.
Nope. I don't have a lot of time to read, so I don't get many chances to try
new authors. :( Do you dislike Robert Jordan?
I also Like Modesitt's Spellsong Cycle and Recluse Saga, and Forgotten Realms
Novels.
>
> > I *did* try reading Narnia when I was real young, so that may've had
> > something to do with it. I haven't tried recently
>
> Well, they are 'kids books'. Depends on how young you were.
I don't remember when exactly I tried, but it was before I really got into
Fantasy novels.
> Now, I suspect it'd be whether you were willing to put up with the obvious
> Christian allegory - I know a lot of people get frustrated with that, but
Hmmm... I think I would have a hard time with that...
>
> > >
> > > > "You can't be a hero hiding underneath your bed"
> > >
> > > How bizarre. If this is from the song I'm thinking of, it's the one that's
> > > in the CD player in my LEGO room right now. Tenchi Muyo 2nd series? Or
> > > just a bizarre coincidence?
> >
> > Yup, its from "Pioneer". Great Song! I actually don't have the CD, as I
> > found it in MP3.
>
> I managed to pick up the Pioneer 'Best of Best' at an anime con.
Which con? I'm going to Otakon latter this year...
> I also have a CD with the same songs, in Japanese. No idea how different the
> lyrics are...
I have the MP3's of those songs... ;) Dunno about the differences, though.
The only major Lyric Archive I know of that has Translations is for Final
Fantasy and other Square games. Sorry, don't have the URL at the moment. :(
>
> > The other song I like that is from the same CD (I believe) is
> > Talent for Love. Oh, and FTR, it *is* on my very extensive list of "Must
> > Buys". ;)
>
> Talent for Love is on the Best of Best CD...not sure what Tenchi-specific CDs
> are available but I'm CERTAIN there are some.
I know of fifteen imports (see <http://animenation.com/tenchimuyo1.html>) and I
think the Tenchi Muyo! in Love soundtrack was released domestically.
>
> > Let's see... The next line is "You've got to live the life you've created
> > inside your head", right? ;)
>
> Pretty close! The BoB CD has a lyrics sheet inside it...
Jeff
"Tryin' to move forward, pushing and shoving
People all get in each other's way"
http://members.xoom.com/aulddragon/
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On Fri, 11 Feb 2000 13:53:40 GMT, "Jeff Stembel"
<aulddragon@wamalug.org> wrote:
> > Now, I suspect it'd be whether you were willing to put up with the obvious
> > Christian allegory - I know a lot of people get frustrated with that, but
It's funny, everyone talks about this allegory, but when I read the
entire collection when I was about 14 it flew right over my head.
Guess it's because I wasn't raised as a Christian. I just figured
they were really good fantasy books. The Magician's Nephew (whatever
the sixth(?) book was called) was my favourite.
>
> > > The other song I like that is from the same CD (I believe) is
> > > Talent for Love. Oh, and FTR, it *is* on my very extensive list of "Must
> > > Buys". ;)
Which I've got to ask... Not sure of the name here though, does the
Best of the Best cd have the Sasami/Ryo-Ohki song on it? If none of
the songs have a cat going "mya!!!" in the middle of it, then the
answer is no. At any rate, it's a great song, if you like talent for
love and like Ryo-Ohki or Sasami, definitely worth finding. (On a
side note, I'd love to find an MP3 of the Magical Project S opening
and ending themes.)
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Kya Morden wrote:
> Which I've got to ask... Not sure of the name here though, does the
> Best of the Best cd have the Sasami/Ryo-Ohki song on it? If none of
> the songs have a cat going "mya!!!" in the middle of it, then the
> answer is no. At any rate, it's a great song, if you like talent for
> love and like Ryo-Ohki or Sasami, definitely worth finding.
Nope, no cabbit 'myas' on the BoB CD (at least the English version).
(But it's also not just TM, it's got songs from a lot of different Pioneer
OVAs...)
J
--
sakura@mediaone.net is Jeff Johnston http://www.io.com/~jeffj
My LEGO Web page has moved! Go to: http://people.ne.mediaone.net/sakura
Check out my Trade List and Want List - * - Last Updated 12/19/1999
LEGO Geek Code: SP+ CA +++ (375/6075) PI +++ #++ S--/++ LS++ Hal M+ A++ YB73m
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In lugnet.castle, Jeff Johnston writes:
> Jeff Stembel wrote:
>
> Followups going to off-topic.fun cos this is getting way out there • from .castle...
>
> > In lugnet.castle, Jeff Johnston writes:
> > > Jeff Stembel wrote:
> Well, they are 'kids books'. Depends on how young you were. Now, I suspect
> it'd
> be whether you were willing to put up with the obvious Christian allegory - I
> know
> a lot of people get frustrated with that, but
I hate that allegory.
I was really disappointed with that when some girl told me about this. Being
Jewish, I never even thought of that, but it does make sense. It also ruins
the book (for me :). I try not to think of that when I read it. I like Aslan
as is Aslan, not Aslan as is Jesus. (Sheesh. I always get annoyed when this is
mentioned... sorry!)
-Shiri
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Shiri wrote:
>
> In lugnet.castle, Jeff Johnston writes:
> > Jeff Stembel wrote:
> >
> > Followups going to off-topic.fun cos this is getting way out there • from .castle...
> >
> > > In lugnet.castle, Jeff Johnston writes:
> > > > Jeff Stembel wrote:
> > Well, they are 'kids books'. Depends on how young you were. Now, I suspect
> > it'd
> > be whether you were willing to put up with the obvious Christian allegory - I
> > know
> > a lot of people get frustrated with that, but
>
> I hate that allegory.
> I was really disappointed with that when some girl told me about this. Being
> Jewish, I never even thought of that, but it does make sense.
Considering that Lewis was an incredibly devout, er, whatever-he-was - (Anglican?
Or Catholic?) like Tolkien, it's really not surprising to think about it.
And I agree, it's a cracking good read anyway. (And I personally like many
of the morals and such presented in it better than a lot of the ones that
pass for 'Christian' these days.)
And, like all the *best* allegories, you can still read it and ignore that
level and have fun.
Another book I'm reading now, (which I'm fairly certain is at least partially
allegorical, although I don't know enough about Taoism or Buddhism to figure
it out) is the _Journey to the West_. And the story is good enough that I can
set aside the allegorical level and just enjoy it for what it is.
J
--
sakura@mediaone.net is Jeff Johnston http://www.io.com/~jeffj
My LEGO Web page has moved! Go to: http://people.ne.mediaone.net/sakura
Check out my Trade List and Want List - * - Last Updated 12/19/1999
LEGO Geek Code: SP+ CA +++ (375/6075) PI +++ #++ S--/++ LS++ Hal M+ A++ YB73m
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In lugnet.castle, Jeff Stembel writes:
> In lugnet.castle, Shiri Dori writes:
> > In lugnet.castle, Jeff Johnston writes:
> > > In lugnet.castle, Steve Bliss writes:
> > > > In lugnet.castle, craig hamilton wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > that's right. infinite. ~that's my last spoiler until the graphics are • on
> > > > > line. please keep speculation down to a dull roar, so i can get the rest • of
> > > > > the needed work done. until then, rest assured that CW will NEVER run out • of
> > > > > space. the bad news ~ CW is as "flat" as a fritter! ah, but we don't ever
> > > > > have to worry about going over the edge! we'll have endless seas to sail,
> > > > > and always undiscovered country further out.
> > > >
> > > > If you sail due East, you will eventually find the edge of the world. • Bring
> > > > plenty of provisions. Watch out for a talking mouse with a sword.
> > >
> > > Nonsense! There's always more to discover! Farther up and further in,
> > > sons of Adam and daughters of Eve!
> > >
> > > J, who remembers those books quite fondly
> >
> > I agree! In the land of Aslan, if you remember, there is always more to
> > discover - the real images of the shadows in this world...
> >
> > Shiri, who still loves the Narnia series
>
> Thanks for clearing that up, Shiri. I was wondering what series you all were
> talking about!
I was guessing that some people wouldn't realize it... after all, the
references were obvious to people who're familiar with the series but not
otherwise ;-)
>
> FTR, I never liked the Narnia series...
I was sure I'd never like it either... this guy I didn't like recommended it
to me in fifth grade, I was sure I'd hate it 'cause I hated him... But I tried
and it was great!
It has great magician-creature stories. My favorite is actually "The voyage of
the Dawn Treader", to which Steve was referring...
-Shiri
FUT .fun
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> I was sure I'd never like it either... this guy I didn't like recommended it
> to me in fifth grade, I was sure I'd hate it 'cause I hated him... But I tried
> and it was great!
> It has great magician-creature stories. My favorite is actually "The voyage of
> the Dawn Treader", to which Steve was referring...
>
> -Shiri
> FUT .fun
My favorite has always been The Silver Chair.
Timbo
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In lugnet.castle, Shiri Dori writes:
> In lugnet.castle, Jeff Johnston writes:
> > In lugnet.castle, Steve Bliss writes:
> > > In lugnet.castle, craig hamilton wrote:
> > >
> > > > that's right. infinite. ~that's my last spoiler until the graphics are on
> > > > line. please keep speculation down to a dull roar, so i can get the rest of
> > > > the needed work done. until then, rest assured that CW will NEVER run out • of
> > > > space. the bad news ~ CW is as "flat" as a fritter! ah, but we don't ever
> > > > have to worry about going over the edge! we'll have endless seas to sail,
> > > > and always undiscovered country further out.
> > >
> > > If you sail due East, you will eventually find the edge of the world. Bring
> > > plenty of provisions. Watch out for a talking mouse with a sword.
> >
> > Nonsense! There's always more to discover! Farther up and further in,
> > sons of Adam and daughters of Eve!
> >
> > J, who remembers those books quite fondly
>
> I agree! In the land of Aslan, if you remember, there is always more to
> discover - the real images of the shadows in this world...
<delurk>
I just re-read these from a large, hard bound book with full color
illustrations. My mom (through some cool machinations) bought this thing for
like $5 and was gracious enough to loan it to me. The cover has a full map of
most of Narnia. A scan could probably be produced if someone wants one. I may
have to start Cair Paravel or something ala LEGO.
All sorts of interesting stuff to build out of Tolkien, too, but it's either
vague or huge. My source of bricks isn't large enough.
</delurk> <!-- or would that be <lurk> ? -->
Eric "I gotta forget school/work and build some more" Lind
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In lugnet.castle, Eric Lind writes:
> All sorts of interesting stuff to build out of Tolkien, too, but it's either
> vague or huge. My source of bricks isn't large enough.
The correct answer is both vague AND huge. ;) I've done some research into
making Minas Tirith, and come to the conclusion it will involve a lot of
artisitic license. JJR has a grand total of about 150 words of descriptive
text for it..<sigh>
Yes, I am ambitious, how can you tell?
James
http://www.shades-of-night.com/lego/
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In lugnet.castle, James Brown writes:
> In lugnet.castle, Eric Lind writes:
>
> > All sorts of interesting stuff to build out of Tolkien, too, but it's either
> > vague or huge. My source of bricks isn't large enough.
>
> The correct answer is both vague AND huge. ;) I've done some research into
> making Minas Tirith, and come to the conclusion it will involve a lot of
> artisitic license. JJR has a grand total of about 150 words of descriptive
> text for it..<sigh>
Very true (vague, huge, with a sense of being quite elaborate while having no
description). I'm looking forward to the upcoming live-action LotR movies to
see how they tackle the problem. Of course, one could always get the animated
movies and use those. Or not. I guess a micro or nano fig scale could work,
too, but that's no fun.
>
> Yes, I am ambitious, how can you tell?
Shockingly ambitious.
Eric "the" Lind.
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In lugnet.castle, Eric Lind writes:
> In lugnet.castle, James Brown writes:
> > In lugnet.castle, Eric Lind writes:
> >
> > > All sorts of interesting stuff to build out of Tolkien, too, but it's either
> > > vague or huge. My source of bricks isn't large enough.
> >
> > The correct answer is both vague AND huge. ;) I've done some research into
> > making Minas Tirith, and come to the conclusion it will involve a lot of
> > artisitic license. JJR has a grand total of about 150 words of descriptive
> > text for it..<sigh>
>
> Very true (vague, huge, with a sense of being quite elaborate while having no
> description). I'm looking forward to the upcoming live-action LotR movies to
> see how they tackle the problem. Of course, one could always get the animated
> movies and use those. Or not. I guess a micro or nano fig scale could work,
> too, but that's no fun.
Nonsense. :) I am in the throes of planning out a model of Minas Tirith, at
a micro-fig scale, where people are ~1 brick tall. Even at this scale, my
best size estimate is that I can't really get it under 5 feet high and about 6
or 7 feet across. At minifig scale it is, like the Death Star, Battlestar
Galactica, or other obscenely large things, unfeasable.
> > Yes, I am ambitious, how can you tell?
>
> Shockingly ambitious.
:)
James
http://www.shades-of-night.com/lego/
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In lugnet.castle, James Brown writes:
> In lugnet.castle, Eric Lind writes:
> > Very true (vague, huge, with a sense of being quite elaborate while having no
> > description). I'm looking forward to the upcoming live-action LotR movies to
> > see how they tackle the problem. Of course, one could always get the • animated
> > movies and use those. Or not. I guess a micro or nano fig scale could work,
> > too, but that's no fun.
>
> Nonsense. :) I am in the throes of planning out a model of Minas Tirith, at
> a micro-fig scale, where people are ~1 brick tall. Even at this scale, my
> best size estimate is that I can't really get it under 5 feet high and about 6
> or 7 feet across. At minifig scale it is, like the Death Star, Battlestar
> Galactica, or other obscenely large things, unfeasable.
Minas Tirith is, after all, set on a mountain, with 7 (is it 7, it's been a
while since my semi-annual Tolkien re-reading) levels, a citadel on the top,
walls on all levels, a huge city below, and a variety of other stuff. Huge
does not begin to describe this.
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In lugnet.castle, Eric Lind writes:
> In lugnet.castle, Shiri Dori writes:
> > In lugnet.castle, Jeff Johnston writes:
> > > In lugnet.castle, Steve Bliss writes:
> > > > In lugnet.castle, craig hamilton wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > that's right. infinite. ~that's my last spoiler until the graphics are on
> > > > > line. please keep speculation down to a dull roar, so i can get the rest of
> > > > > the needed work done. until then, rest assured that CW will NEVER run out • of
> > > > > space. the bad news ~ CW is as "flat" as a fritter! ah, but we don't ever
> > > > > have to worry about going over the edge! we'll have endless seas to sail,
> > > > > and always undiscovered country further out.
> > > >
> > > > If you sail due East, you will eventually find the edge of the world. Bring
> > > > plenty of provisions. Watch out for a talking mouse with a sword.
> > >
> > > Nonsense! There's always more to discover! Farther up and further in,
> > > sons of Adam and daughters of Eve!
> > >
> > > J, who remembers those books quite fondly
> >
> > I agree! In the land of Aslan, if you remember, there is always more to
> > discover - the real images of the shadows in this world...
>
>
> <delurk>
> I just re-read these from a large, hard bound book with full color
> illustrations. My mom (through some cool machinations) bought this thing for
> like $5 and was gracious enough to loan it to me. The cover has a full map of
> most of Narnia. A scan could probably be produced if someone wants one. I may
> have to start Cair Paravel or something ala LEGO.
>
> All sorts of interesting stuff to build out of Tolkien, too, but it's either
> vague or huge. My source of bricks isn't large enough.
> </delurk> <!-- or would that be <lurk> ? -->
>
> Eric "I gotta forget school/work and build some more" Lind
glad you de-lurked, eric! my blue "summer" castle (preview pic on the CW
site now) was inspired from the Narnia books. instead, i named it "Cair
Parsifal", incorporating a bit of aurthurian legend.
later ~ craig~
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In lugnet.castle, Shiri Dori writes:
> The scale is not quite clear either.
>
> I suggest that, in order to avoid disappointment (like Jeff Stembel wondering
> about his country for example) you come out with a clearer statement of the
> whole map concept.
Hey y'all:
I am pretty sure that the scale is intended to be minifig scale.
Pawel was going to do the map but was impressed enough with Craig's ideas to
set his own aside -- and if Pawel can do it, I think the rest of us can at the
very least set aside our own peculiar needs and ideas until Craig's unifying
concept is placed before us in whole for our consideration. All will be
revealed in time, and I think we can give Pawel and Craig the benefit of the
doubt in the meanwhile.
And unless somebody else is willing to do a whole mountain of work on CW
content as Pawel and Craig are currently undertaking to do, I think we should
all just keep our own counsel on all matters CW.
Pawel got the map ball rolling, and Craig is putting in the time to make it
work for the rest of us -- I say that as content creators the two are de
facto "THE" CW authorities and what they say goes. Don't like it? Go build
your own CW!
Those are my thoughts on it.
-- Richard (and I am NOT barking at you, Shiri...)
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Hi Richard,
Just so you know, I'm definitely giving Craig and Pawel the benefit of the
doubt, and even more - I'm 99.99% sure that whatever they do will be above and
beyond what we can even imagine. I'm sure it'll turn out GREAT and all I meant
by the letter is, that the first few posts weren't quite clear and that we
needed clarification in order to preserve our peace of mind...
I'm very sorry if that's the impression I made. I surely didn't mean to.
Pawel and Craig are working really hard and I can't thank them enough for all
they've done.
-Shiri (Ruf! ruf! ;)
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When I first started thinking about this site, I wanted to create a
community around the castle domain. Since we live all so far away and can't get
together and display our creations, this is the next best thing - a virtual
world.
Yet a virtual world is still that - virtual reality. And reality says that
IF I wanted to zoom in on a realm, it would in fact be finite. To the
minifigures, it's finite (the realms), and we just need to make the best use
of what we are handed. And here is what we'll be given a 128 by 128
realm per person. You shouldn't have any neighbors right away (unless you
choose to), so you are free to build and design it as you wish. I guess
the thing to keep in mind is that this is not a contest. If it were, then
it wouldn't be a fair one because Craig and I would win (by giving ourselves a
million realms) Just kidding ... ;)
This in mind, once my realm is picked, I will get a piece of paper (128 by
128 squares) and get to work on designing it and working on it. I will
want to pretty much fill up my realm before I move on. And why move on if
you are not done? Will I be more impressed with someone who has 10
realms if he or she has not shown me models that go in them? First of all,
they won't even get more than three if that's the case.
To be hosest, if I don't see some cool models from someone, why would they
get more space? Make use of what you are given first ... get some
closure;) I plan on spending a very long time on one realm to get it very
cool looking and have it nominated for "Cool Realm of the Week" ... j/k;) So
... here is what I see happening:
Each one gets ... 3 realms right of the bat (although I think two is plenty
for beginning).
Also, some really cool pictures of models that I can see being done are both
nano and micro fig scale. I really look forward to seeing some of these.
So ... to give the whole thing some closure:
1) 128 by 128 realms. Each 1 square is a 32 by 32 baseplate. That's a
very big and finite (hence realistic) realm.
2) You will be given three realms right of the bat.
3) The creations are a prerequisite to everything. Once you are content
with a realm and want another one, a request for a new realm will be made.
There will be some system that will either approve you or not approve you
for a realm. (if you have one figure and tell us that they have tons of
castles, that probably won't cut it). Keep in mind that the focus of this
ARE models ... You can have some great stories with nano fig scale creations,
but you still have to have the creations).
4) Some people won't ever need more than their three realms. They will
just work at making them better and better. They will actually try to fill
up their realm. I dont' see that happening for a while;)
The whole place is a place for the minifigures to exist and cooperate.
We'll keep their realistic and fun.
-- pn
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(canceled)
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Richard Marchetti wrote:
> Pawel was going to do the map but was impressed enough with Craig's ideas to
> set his own aside -- and if Pawel can do it, I think the rest of us can at the
> very least set aside our own peculiar needs and ideas until Craig's unifying
> concept is placed before us in whole for our consideration. All will be
> revealed in time, and I think we can give Pawel and Craig the benefit of the
> doubt in the meanwhile.
On the other hand, I think its important to get some of these issues
out into the open. If Craig and Pawel have one idea for the map and
everybody else has different desires, there's going to be a lot of
wasted work and a lot of disappointed people. I don't want that to
happen.
> And unless somebody else is willing to do a whole mountain of work on CW
> content as Pawel and Craig are currently undertaking to do, I think we should
> all just keep our own counsel on all matters CW.
I can't think of any other way to say this, so I'm going to put it bluntly:
I think this attitude is a really bad idea. It's completely against the
entire concept of Castle World as I understand it.
Castle World is not "Craig and Pawel make a world and let us play in it".
At least, that's not the Castle World I signed up for.
Castle World is "We all make a world together."
Cooperation and consideration.
If all that is *not* what CW is supposed to be, I'm in the wrong place
and I hope that Pawel and Craig will tell me so directly. And if they
do so, I'll more than happily silence myself, pack my bags, and go back
to my own world. But until then, I'm going to try to help Castle World
be the absolute best shared LEGO world I can.
J
--
sakura@mediaone.net is Jeff Johnston http://www.io.com/~jeffj
My LEGO Web page has moved! Go to: http://people.ne.mediaone.net/sakura
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In lugnet.castle, Jeff Johnston writes:
> Castle World is not "Craig and Pawel make a world and let us play in it".
> At least, that's not the Castle World I signed up for.
> Castle World is "We all make a world together."
> Cooperation and consideration.
Good lord, could you be any more impatient and ingracious!
All Pawel and Craig are trying to set certain is the map grid as a whole.
Thats it! You can create the rest any way you wish. Everything done
collectively has to have a few foundational principles or we might as well
just stick to our individual pages as is. And no one is stopping you, BTW.
And no one is otherwise creating the world, as such. Just like on earth, I
expect to be able to speculate on the creation and its meaning to the cultures
I create. And so can you.
Allowing Craig and Pawel to do this first foundational structuring just seems
the easiest way to go to me. And Pawel did get the whole thing started
anyway, why not allow him this one conceit (if we may call it such)?
> If all that is *not* what CW is supposed to be, I'm in the wrong place
> and I hope that Pawel and Craig will tell me so directly. And if they
> do so, I'll more than happily silence myself, pack my bags, and go back
> to my own world. But until then, I'm going to try to help Castle World
> be the absolute best shared LEGO world I can.
Great! Try going to your quiet place for a while...I am sure Pawel and Craig
will call you if they need your input.
-- Richard
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(canceled)
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(Sorry about other, incomplete post)
To put what Richard said in different words:
Pawel and Craig are not trying to enforce anything on you.
The only rules they are putting forth are the 3 C's: Cooperation, Creativity,
and Courtesy. (Or is it Consideration? Doesn't matter.)
All their suggestions and offers about the map are just that: suggestions and
offers. They are not trying to make us do *anything*.
They ARE trying to suggest a format of scaling. This will give us a common
basis, just something basic so that we can be in a shared world instead of
seperate ones.
After all, CW's point is to connect us all. To be in the same world, instead
of seperate ones as we have been up until now.
I hope this makes Richard's post clearer - he seemed to be mad at the time and
might have answered Jeff's questions with some temper.
Both Jeff and Richard have lost a bit of that Courtesy in these posts, but I
hope this will change.
Please, take a deep breath, remind yourself what we are here for, and then
(and only then!) make comments like these. We all want to have fun but without
the three C's (the only *rules* that Craig and Pawel have), we will definitely
lose the point.
Shiri
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In lugnet.castle, Shiri Dori writes:
> After all, CW's point is to connect us all. To be in the same world, instead
> of seperate ones as we have been up until now.
This is my main focus. Having an organized method of scaling CW only makes
sense if this is your goal. But scale does not denote finitude. Within a
framework which exists largely as a common convention only, you can do
whatever you like. How can anyone object to the proposed idea of the map at
this point -- without even having seen what Pawel and Craig have actually
devised?
I'm sorry, but I just don't see why others cannot adopt a "wait and see"
attitude as a minimum standard of courtesy towards our CW founding member,
Pawel, and early CW balladeer, Craigo. I do not know Pawel personally, and I
do not speak for him -- nor for that matter do I speak for Craig. Both of them
are likely too polite to defend themselves in this matter. Speaking for
myself, I am frustrated that others feel that they must dictate to Pawel how
to organize CW. The whole thing was Pawel's idea to begin with and I trust him
100% to carry through with something that the rest of us will find
inspirational and enjoyable. And even if its not 100% what you might have done
in his place -- is it such a big deal to let it be established "as is"
nonetheless so that we may collectively and individually proceed to the next
steps in further developing CW?
Knowing that all of us will be able to develop our themes ABSOLUTELY as we see
fit, I see little point for complaint as of the moment. Infinite v finite but
infinitely expandable -- what's the difference unless you can turn the real
estate over for a profit? What are some of you thinking???!!!
Lastly, while the analogy is not perfect I think we should grant Pawel the
same sort of latitude in developing CW in its earliest stages as we do Todd
here on Lugnet. CW is intended as a place for free expression of your own
unique CW ideas -- but that does not mean it has to be 100% a democracy from
the outset. We can't be quarreling over the most minute foundational issues,
someone has to have the final say. I am personally willing to allow Pawel to
wield enough administrative authority to get the whole thing beyond its
infancy.
Would that be too big a sacrifice for some of you to commit to? Seems like a
trifle to me, especially in terms of what we are getting back again.
=)
- Richard (Now I have to go party, which is as it should be...)
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richard marchetti wrote:
> Speaking for
> myself, I am frustrated that others feel that they must dictate to Pawel how
> to organize CW.
Who is trying to dictate anything? I've offered suggestions, that's all.
> The whole thing was Pawel's idea to begin with and I trust him
> 100% to carry through with something that the rest of us will find
> inspirational and enjoyable. And even if its not 100% what you might have done
> in his place -- is it such a big deal to let it be established "as is"
> nonetheless so that we may collectively and individually proceed to the next
> steps in further developing CW?
If I see something that I think could improve CW, why shouldn't I offer it up
as a suggestion? Who is hurt by that?
> Lastly, while the analogy is not perfect I think we should grant Pawel the
> same sort of latitude in developing CW in its earliest stages as we do Todd
> here on Lugnet. CW is intended as a place for free expression of your own
> unique CW ideas -- but that does not mean it has to be 100% a democracy from
> the outset.
Well, that's the big question, isn't it? I was under the impression that CW
was going to be developed by everybody. And when I say CW I mean the entire
thing, foundations, 'rules', and all, not just the actual world.
So I guess these are my questions for Pawel and Craig:
1) Is everyone developing the foundations and rules of CW, or is it just you
two, with the rest of us only contributing to the 'world' itself?
2) If you two are the final authority, do you want input, suggestions, and
feedback from people on the decisions you've made or will be making?
J
--
sakura@mediaone.net is Jeff Johnston http://www.io.com/~jeffj
My LEGO Web page has moved! Go to: http://people.ne.mediaone.net/sakura
Check out my Trade List and Want List - * - Last Updated 12/19/1999
LEGO Geek Code: SP+ CA +++ (375/6075) PI +++ #++ S--/++ LS++ Hal M+ A++ YB73m
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
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> So I guess these are my questions for Pawel and Craig:
>
> 1) Is everyone developing the foundations and rules of CW, or is it just you
> two, with the rest of us only contributing to the 'world' itself?
I can't speak for both of us, but I will anyhow;)
Everyone is offering suggestions and giving us feedback. This makes our
work better, and the final outcome more broad and flexible. Sometimes it's
easy to get tunnel
visioned about something, so some input from others is always welcome. If
the input is good (hey ... let's make realms bigger!) and logical, then
it's implemented (ok -
128x128 baseplates it is then ...). Sometimes the input (no specific cases
on Lugnet - some e-mails that I've gotten) is really not what I think would
go along with the
whole theme of CW, so I have to dismiss it. So in a way, as flexible as we
are (which I think we have shown to be and will show to be), there are
certain times when a
thing or two won't make sense right away, or you just feel we are plain
wrong (which I don't think has happened yet).
So - everyone is contributing to the developing and foundations in their own
way. We've thrown out tons of questions, weighed all opinions, and picked
what we've
thought was the best one ... When the "rules" of Castle World will be
implemented, we'll have a do the same - throw it out, let people give input,
and pick what we feel
are the best point (always open to be amended).
> 2) If you two are the final authority, do you want input, suggestions, and
> feedback from people on the decisions you've made or will be making?
Always;) But it won't always get implemented, and sometimes it won't be
implemented right away. But ... if you have a good idea, why would we shoot
it down?
Heck - it always be to our advantage to implement it. As far as being the
final authority ... what other suggestions do you guys have here? I think
majority rule will be
what goes. If Craig and I are die hard on something and everyone else
isn't, I doubt it would ever go up (BUT ... Craig and I kind of check one
another in certain ways,
so it's not like one person or even two have all say so on something).
I guess to sum it all up, what we're going to try to do (as always) will be
to please most of the people all of the time.
Personally, I think we'll need some rules for CW, but we'll worry about that
when the map is online. And we'll probably make those as we go along. I
hope that
answers all your worries and questions. If you have something on your mind
and you don't ask, you will never get answered;)
-- pn
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Shiri wrote:
> Both Jeff and Richard have lost a bit of that Courtesy in these posts, but I
> hope this will change.
You are absolutely correct, and I apologize to all for losing that courtesy.
(It's been a long week, but I know that's no excuse.)
> All their suggestions and offers about the map are just that: suggestions and
> offers. They are not trying to make us do *anything*.
Then maybe I'm misunderstanding Pawel's posts about Realms, and how many we are
given and how we qualify for new ones.
If they - and the map, and everything else Pawel & Craig are producing - are
just suggestions, then I don't see how anyone offering their opinions is a bad
thing.
If they're decisions, well, that's different. But I won't go into that now.
If I've offered my own opinions in a way that has offended anyone - especially
Pawel and Craig, who are putting in a whole lot of hard work on this project -
then again, I apologize. That was not my intent. I had some ideas that I
thought could make things better for all concerned, so I thought I'd share
them.
When Richard said that Pawel and Craig should make all the decisions without
input from others - and suggested that if we didn't like that, we should go
take a hike - I took it personally, because I like to think that I have some
good ideas that could really help the project. Richard, if you didn't mean it
personally, or if I've misinterpreted you, then I apologize yet again.
J
--
sakura@mediaone.net is Jeff Johnston http://www.io.com/~jeffj
My LEGO Web page has moved! Go to: http://people.ne.mediaone.net/sakura
Check out my Trade List and Want List - * - Last Updated 12/19/1999
LEGO Geek Code: SP+ CA +++ (375/6075) PI +++ #++ S--/++ LS++ Hal M+ A++ YB73m
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
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In lugnet.castle, Jeff Johnston writes:
> When Richard said that Pawel and Craig should make all the decisions without
> input from others - and suggested that if we didn't like that, we should go
> take a hike - I took it personally, because I like to think that I have some
> good ideas that could really help the project. Richard, if you didn't mean it
> personally, or if I've misinterpreted you, then I apologize yet again.
I will apologize too, Jeff. I am sorry if I made comments that irritated you.
I am not actually trying to get under your skin or over on you about
anything. I am just calling for a "cooling of our collective heels" until the
map is done. BTW, I have seen your site and I know you have more than good
ideas -- the Cornelius stuff rocks!!!
When I wrote that I was willing to allow Pawel administrative authority over
CW, this is primarily in regards to this early map and CW website stuff --
which I think you will find has more to do with administration of CW than any
of your narrative plans or realm expansion possibilities for the future.
I just feel that after some initial discussion, the most important thing is to
just get the map done. I seriously doubt anyone will object to what ends up
being proposed. And I was perhaps oversensitive to what I felt were
disparaging or distracting comments about the work being undertaken largely
under a cloak of secrecy, but being accomplished by our two most diligent and
generous members. I just happen to think the unveiling will prove worth the
wait and that when we at last see the map in all its glory there will be
little room for complaint.
With CW, Pawel has made a great suggestion and begun to set up the machinery
of what will be a lot of great fun. I don't care if he says CW is covered in
melting cheese as long as I get to build what I want to and tell the stories
as I see fit on my chosen plots. Maybe melting cheese would rankle a bit, but
it provides a structure we can all use -- and I am guessing it won't be
melting cheese after all.
See what I mean?
-- Richard
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