Subject:
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Re: Technic's Dead (was: I need Technic)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.technic
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Date:
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Mon, 5 Aug 2002 13:39:07 GMT
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In lugnet.technic, Brian Sadowski writes:
> I can agree with your feelings of the Technic theme being slowly diluted
> with Bionicle, Throwbots and the like and the theme 'Technic' itself may
> indeed be dead but I am in a huge disagreement with idea that the newer
> Technic parts are in some way inferior to the standard Technic brick.
>
> Before I start, let me just clarify my terminology as far as the Technic
> line goes. There are Bricks and plates(with Technic holes) and respectively
> beams and half-beams ( these are rounded).
>
> > Now, of course
> > these elements are useful, after all, any Lego element is useful,
> > but it is not as flexible as the square beam.
>
> These seems like a major part of your post, but you give nothing to support
> that statement.
>
> I believe that Lego realized the Technic brick and plate system is old and
> there could be a better system in its place. Bricks lend themselves to stud
> building and beams are geared towards axle supported structures. Both the
> Brick and the Beam have the common pin-hole.
>
> Technic Bricks have 2 connectivity points, studs and holes. Technic beams
> have axles and holes. If we remove the common factor, which is Technic pin
> holes then we are left with Studs vs. Axle holes. Well...which is a more
> technic approach to things, studs or axles? I would have to go with axles.
Larger beams don't have axles, which then renders them inferioir to technic
bricks. I'm okay with using a few liftarms and small beams when I have to.
But I just find that Technic bricks are ALOT better then beams for a
structual, 'chassis' mode. Also, with technic bricks, you can 'build up.'
Studs ARE usefull in technic construction. I find that when using alot of
'running' axles and gears, technic bricks are just much easier to work with.
They can connect using studs, beams need other axles and beams to connect
themselves.
>
> Once you start using bricks, you are almost required to use plates.
> If you look at a 1x3 plate and a 1x3 half-beam. I think you could find a lot
> more uses with the 1x3 technic beam then with the plate.
But plates and studs open up one huge possibility: hinges. While hinges
might not be all that good for the functional parts, they are very useful
for brick aesthetic. Modern Lego sets overcome that by using flex axles,
and they can bend practiclly any way. Bu what else can you do with them?
NOTHING! Their just a horribly specialized part.
>
> Also don’t forget that beams are compatible with studs, every technic hole
> is basically a female stud connector.
Yes, but technic bricks have studs AND holes.
>
> Functionally Beams have many advantages over bricks:
>
> -Beams are a lighter part. An 11 hole beam weights less then and 12 stud
> brick. Part weight is always an issue, and is extremely important when
> things get motorized.
That's true, but by themselves beams need a lot of 'support' structure.
They just cannot connect to each other... technic bricks can easily do that.
>
> -Beams are rounded, allowing higher freedom of movement and tighter
> connections. Because the ends are not 'squared off' as in bricks, beams can
> fit into areas that a brick never could.
That's true. I'm not saying that beams are useless-but why use them in
places where bricks are better?
>
> -Non gender specific. Bricks and plates are studded, a male and a female
> part to each piece. This is a limiting factor, decreasing the usability of
> each piece. Rounded beams do not have this property.
But that adds another function! I cannot see how adding another function to
a piece can decrease useablility. I find studs very useful, even in technic
construction. In this case, beams just lose a useful property.
>
> -Piece Dimensions, I don’t know specific dimensions but the width and height
> of a beam is a lot closer to a 1 to 1 ratio then a brick is. Symmetry is
> always preferred over non-symmetry. Non-symmetric parts are harder to build
> with. Beams are also broken into halves, where bricks are into 3rds. This
> just may be personal but halves are easier to deal with then thirds.
>
> All of these advantages means that any given structure can be built smaller,
> weight less, and sometimes even be stronger then using bricks.
Not always. Studs are very durable. Flex axles and regular pins are not as
much. And anyway, you don't say that a bicycle is better then a car for
moving between long distances just because its smaller and lighter. Cars
move much faster. Technic bricks have more functions.
> You can also look at this situation this way. If you observer real world
> structures your more likely to find something that looks like a technic beam
> before you will find anything that looks like a technic brick. The reason
> being is that a Technic brick is a complicated piece, male and female studs
> split with the technic holes. I'm guessing its even harder to manufacture,
> therefore costing more.
But this is LEGO!!! Get an erector set if you care about that.
>
> > Of course, like every one else any time I find a part that
> > is useful in a construction it is a good thing so the more parts
> > the better. Its just that the percentage of new elements that
> > fit into this category keeps dropping.
>
> I strongly disagree! Have you even purchased a new set? Almost every new
> technic set contains a few new pieces. Look at Darth Vader for example, this
> set has many new pieces. Which decorative pieces are you speaking about, any
> examples? Spybotics; even thought these aren’t good for technic parts, one
> does contains a completely new gear (32 tooth I believe), If that’s not a
> new useful part then I don’t know what is. I could make an extensive list of
> parts which have come out in the past 12 months which are incredibly useful
> and even show you examples of how I used them.
But most of the 'new pieces' are just styling panels and flex axles, of
which I both hate. A new gear is good, but simply is good enough to merit
the loss of most older technic pieces.
>
> I even find the rounded beams a lot more attractive then the square bricks.
> The beams look almost futuristic in comparison. Even our cars today
> compared to 20 years ago have a lot more curve to them. I think curves are
> just more pleasing then right angles. If my girlfriend was full of 90
> degree angles she would look funny :)
>
> http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=17121
>
> This is my RoboarmII. Built with less then 15 bricks. I've never seen anyone
> build a robotic arm with all 6 degrees of freedom this small before. If this
> was built with bricks it probably would weight a bit more, requiring larger
> motors, which means more weight, etc., get the picture, it would also move a
> lot slower.
Hmmm, have you tried? You might be able to remove pieces you didn't need.
>
> I think the new pieces are a great addition to the technic line, even if the
> theme 'Technic' doesn't exist in the same way it used to. The problems are,
> In my opinion, Lego may have changed the line to quickly and maybe changed
> it too much for some peoples likings.
The new pieces are not an addition. They ARE modern technic. Bricks with
beams are great, but 100 beams with 5 bricks just isn't good.
>
> I'm not new to the Lego world, but since the recent push to a beam building
> style, I would never go back.
> -Brian
I defenintly would.
-JHK
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Technic's Dead (was: I need Technic)
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| "John Henry Kruer" <jhkruer@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:H0DHx7.Gy@lugnet.com... (...) Flex axles can be used to carry compressed air in pneumatic systems, and as cunning attachment points - see the "hook holder" on the crane cab: (URL) a great (...) (22 years ago, 5-Aug-02, to lugnet.technic)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Technic's Dead (was: I need Technic)
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| I can agree with your feelings of the Technic theme being slowly diluted with Bionicle, Throwbots and the like and the theme 'Technic' itself may indeed be dead but I am in a huge disagreement with idea that the newer Technic parts are in some way (...) (22 years ago, 4-Aug-02, to lugnet.technic)
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