Subject:
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Re: Apology for Jesse Long
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.people
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Date:
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Sun, 5 Aug 2001 20:09:46 GMT
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Viewed:
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1015 times
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In lugnet.people, Geordan Hankinson writes:
> Wow, all I can say is that I'm in shock. I come home to a flame war. Jesse,
> I'm trying to advocate for you, I'm trying to help you fit in better and I'm
> trying my best. I thought at first it was going to work, but you keep
> sending profane flames back at everyone which makes it impossible for me to
> help you, I want to help you fit in, but I can't if you keep flaming
> everyone. It cancels out everything that I've said about you to try and help.
>
> Jesse please, I really want to help, but please stop flaming everyone in
> retaliation. Their not going to stop ridiculing you unless you stop. Jesse
> I'm begging you to stop, Even if you hate me for this, I'm still gonna try
> and help you.
>
> I need you to stop retaliating, please Jesse.
>
> -Geordan-
>
> In lugnet.people, Jesse Alan Long writes:
> > In lugnet.people, Matthew Gerber writes:
> > > In lugnet.space, Geordan Hankinson writes:
> > > > I agree with Jesse on this one Matt, You guys need to buck up and start
> > > > ating your age. Making fun of him for the way he posts, realates to people
> > > > ie, "how to post effectively 101" or whatever it was called, is stupid and
> > > > unnnesescary (sp). That is the way he posts and how he relates to other
> > > > people and there is no reason to make fun of Jesse for that, Do you make fun
> > > > of people who stutter? hopefully not. Jesse has a number of reasons for the
> > > > way he realates to you all. He has stated himself,
> > > > http://news.lugnet.com/space/?n=10272
> > > >
> > > > Do you make fun of people with different colour skin? again, hopefully not.
> > > > Stuttering and skin colour are things that cannot be helped, as are Jesse's
> > > > conditions. I want people to stop acting like children and treat Jesse with
> > > > the respect that he deserves.
> > > >
> > > > If this makes your respect level for me drop, fine I don't care, as long as
> > > > your respect for Jesse has gone up. (1)
> > > >
> > > > I am tired of seeing him being ridiculed in .*fun* for the way he writes etc.
> > > > It ain't fun unless everyone's laughing. If you have something nasty to say
> > > > to Jesse, I would ask you to e-mail Todd( or Suz) and ask either of them to
> > > > create a .make-fun-of group and post there. THis making fun of him has gone
> > > > too far IMO and I hope in others opinions too.
> > > >
> > > > People should stop playing the school ground bully and act their age.
> > > >
> > > > -Geordan-
> > > >
> > > > (1) Yes I do have a fair amount of self respect
> > >
> > > Geordan,
> > >
> > > I'm going to tell you a story...not a defense, kinda' an explanation, but
> > > definately NOT a flame toward you or anyone else...get from it what you will...
> > >
> > > Once upon a time, or about February 2001, I found LUGNET.
> > >
> > > I began posting, and, like many newcomers, got into it a bit with a couple
> > > of people (Hi Larry and Richard!).
> > >
> > > Just like any community where a new person joins (school, work, club,
> > > whatever), there are always some akward times at the beginning...newcomers
> > > always have to learn the ins-and-outs of the community, ang get to know the
> > > others around them. This is ESPECIALLY hard on the Internet, where faceless
> > > folks often act in ways they can't in real life...mean, snippy, lewd, whatever.
> > >
> > > What is different here at LUGNET, however, is that 1) the folks here truly
> > > care about their a) community, b) hobby, c) and each other, and 2) folks
> > > usually stick to the ToU as written. ToU violators are given multiple
> > > chances to comply. It's a very happy dictatorship.
> > >
> > > Now, I don't care how old someone is, or what may be said to be wrong with
> > > them, but there is something to be said for "fitting in" (not a popular
> > > concept in peoples minds, but one they have to adhere to each and every
> > > day...no matter who they are, where they are, or what they are doing).
> > >
> > > Despite MANY multiple posts and e-mails starting at plesant "you'd get along
> > > better if..."... to facetious "what about the wings"...to frustrated "if you
> > > can't make coherent posts, don't post to me"...Jesse has run the gamut of
> > > responses from LUGNET folks. All to no avail. Chances have abounded, and all
> > > have been met with a veritable brick wall.
> > >
> > > Now, I'm not going to research posts at this point, because I feel I am
> > > taking WAY to much time with this as it is (the phrase "beating a dead
> > > horse" comes to mind), so feel free to read EVERYTHING written by or to
> > > Jesse on LUGNET, in chronoligical order. You'll see I'm right. On the rare
> > > occasion that Jesse is coherent and civil to someone, they respond in kind.
> > > You'll see the frustration grow. But keep this in mind...with EACH and EVERY
> > > post to Jesse, a LUGNET member is still trying to communicate with him. NO
> > > ONE has shut him out, shut him down, or shut him up.
> > >
> > > I challenge you to find one LUGNET poster who outright told him to leave
> > > LUGNET. I also challenge you to find one LUGNET poster who hasn't given
> > > Jesse more that a fair chance to communicate here. I don't think you
> > > can...because that's not how folks are around here (well maybe in
> > > off-topic.debate...but that's a specialized case).
> > >
> > > My point is this (and I've written it before): Jesse needs to learn that
> > > folks have had his best LUGNET inerests at heart, and over time, he has worn
> > > down even the most patient people here to a frazzled nub of their former
> > > politeness. You say that folks aren't being fair to Jesse...well I say that
> > > he hasn't been fair to everyone else...the post history proves me correct.
> > > If Jesse intends to stay around LUGNET, it is up to him to accept the
> > > ribbing and teasing that his current behavior has earned him (and I've also
> > > previously written about that, running gags and the collective comedy
> > > conciousness and all). It is also up to him to accept the occasional
> > > frazzled reply to his current posting style, or decide to change how he
> > > interacts with others here to get the responses he desires. It's just that
> > > simple.
> > >
> > > Anyway, that's about the last I'm going to write on this subject. It is also
> > > only my thoughts and opinions, so you can take them or leave them as you will.
> > >
> > > Matt
> > >
> > > (I meant to post my last message in .people...appologies to .space for the
> > > last clutter...FUT .people)
> >
> > Maybe it is time to overthrow the dictatorship. People who have attitudes
> > as yourself seem to justify the cliques and gangs that you form in life.
> >
> > Maybe they are your OWN best interests at heart and not my best interests at
> > heart on Lugnet, Matt. How dare you try to control my life! This behavior
> > I can expect in Cuba but not in the Uncle Sam world of the United States of
> > America.
> >
> > I never wanted to fit in at school and people respected me because I had my
> > unique style and that I did not back down from any person in school. I
> > tried to be fair as I possibly could and I believe that nettiquette, as with
> > etiquette, is meant to make people feel inferior to other people and is
> > useless, trival, banal, and above all, hurtful to other people. Whatever
> > happened to just plain and simple respect of other people?
> >
> > A good example is that I never started a sentence with, "You sorry son of a
> > bitch, goddamn, mother fucking asshole!" That sort of sentence is
> > incredibly rude and also it is not my typical sort of behavior on Lugnet.
> > Any Joe Shmoe can construct a string of words in that manner, just watch
> > South Park or Jerry Springer so I can prove my point. I have, however, seen
> > some people such as Tim Courtney say a few choice words to me in responses
> > to my posts on Lugnet and through e-mail messages. Does that prove to a
> > point why I am still somewhat hostile to some people on Lugnet? I am
> > capable of kindness, just read the post about Larry Pienizaek on
> > lugnet.trains if you do not believe me.
> >
> > Maybe I should make fun of you, would that be a good idea, Matt? Should I
> > make you appear to be a total dolt as you have with me, Matt? Should I use
> > some of those words that Tim used at me to you, Matt?
> >
> > I am different, you do not like different, you like plain, normal, boring,
> > bland, and divisive dictatorships. I grew up and fought for my entire life
> > against bullies, abusive older siblings, and even my parents on occasion. I
> > am not afraid of anyone and I do not expect to be afraid of anyone, Matt. I
> > fight injustice, I fight stupidity while you seem to be fighting for it
> > because you seem to make fun of me. How mature do you want me to become
> > when you act like a moron yourself, Matt? I see this as the pot calling the
> > kettle black but the pot justifying that cause and calling itself coal. The
> > pot and kettle are both black but the pot refuses to admit that it is black.
> > Maybe if you realize how you act in real life determines your life, you can
> > understand this message.
> >
> > I am this way on the computer as well as off the computer and if you do not
> > like the fact that I refuse to become a hypocrite, let your own self suffer
> > in your life.
> >
> > Jesse Long
Geordan, as well, as every other person on Lugnet, I said in those paragraphs:
I never wanted to fit in at school and people respected me because I had my
own unique style and that I did not back down from any person in school. I
tried to be as fair as I possibly could and I believe that netiquette, as
with etiquette, is meant to make people feel inferior to other people and is
useless, trivial, banal, and above all, hurtful to other people. whatever
happened to just plain and simple respect of other people?
A good EXAMPLE (say it with me, EX-AM-PLE) is that I never started a
sentence with, "You sorry son of a *****, *******, ****** ******* *******!"
The sentence was showing how rude Tim was being with me in the letter,
Geordan, when he said some other choice words to me. I erased the e-mails
because I simply got tired of Tim being rude to me.
I was trying to point OUT a rule of netiquette, not trying to violate a rule
of netiquette OR a rule of Lugnet. Mladen and other people will simply
flame me act like cavemen until they croak from the planet Earth.
People will keep misinterpreting me because they believe that I am an
ignoramous that is incapable of being of any worth to Lugnet. People hate
me and will not accept any apologies from me and they will not change their
ways because they are dead set against being right in their own minds.
Maybe they will send some people to make me be quiet permanently if they
have enough money.
Tim violated the rule of netiquette far before me and if anyone wants to
argue, maybe we can send this to Suzanne or some other person, perhaps a
legal mediator, or, if it comes down to no other alternative, a court room.
Jesse Long
P.S. Geordan, I was not trying to say those words as a flame and I was not
simply trying to say them to say those words, I said them because I wanted
to show Tim that he did not need to put those words into a letter.
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Apology for Jesse Long
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| huge snip- (...) Tim did not say that to you, he used profanity as an example (...) Jesse, they won't accept your apologies from you because you don't change. Stop flaming people and they'll stop flaming you, gauranteed. -Geordan- (...) (23 years ago, 5-Aug-01, to lugnet.people)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Apology for Jesse Long
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| Wow, all I can say is that I'm in shock. I come home to a flame war. Jesse, I'm trying to advocate for you, I'm trying to help you fit in better and I'm trying my best. I thought at first it was going to work, but you keep sending profane flames (...) (23 years ago, 5-Aug-01, to lugnet.people)
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