Subject:
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Re: Lego RPG DraK'en.
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.fun
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Date:
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Tue, 26 Nov 2002 20:04:27 GMT
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Viewed:
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1401 times
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"Hendo (John P. Henderson)" wrote:
>
> In lugnet.fun.gaming, Frank Filz writes:
> > Matt Hein wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello, I've recently completed one of my comprehensive
> > > lego rpgs for your enjoyment, so here goes.
> > >
> > > http://www.lugnet.com/~1112/DraKen
> >
> > One thing I'd like to point out is that at least from a quick glance at
> > the rules, I would not really call this an RPG. • <snippage>
> > I'm sorry for this digression but as a compartmentalized dork, I take my
> > categorization somewhat seriously.
>
> I agree with you on this, Frank. I favor catagorization also. Your term,
> Interactive Fiction is a nice one, possibly a broad catagory that includes
> many other sub-types of games.
Actually, I agree with Bruce, Interractive Fiction is best kept to refer
to games following closely in the footsteps of Zork.
> Role Playing Games traditionally are those that literally offer role playing
> by the players. That is, the players pretend to be someone or something
> they are not. Generally this happens in table-top RPGs (like D&D and a
> hundred others) and LARPs (Live Action Role Playing games), where people act
> out their fictional characters every move and word. I think what makes an
> RPG different from other games is this very thing, that the players take on
> the persona of a character and act 'in-character', speaking or acting almost
> as if on stage. Technically, by this definition, little kids playing "cops
> and robbers" or even just having a "tea party" are role playing.
See the problem with defining what you and I would call an RPG is that
each of the key elements is common in other types of games. I think the
key elements of a D&D or LARP type game are:
1. assumption of a role
2. talking and acting "in character"
3. some kind of continuing story line which links game sessions
4. a set of formal rules which govern interractions
5. a defined way for the rules to be changed.
Number 3 eliminates many games, though it also eliminates one-off
convention games. On the other hand, there are many strategy games which
can be played as a bunch of scenarios and would qualify on all these
points (Up Front, the Squad Leader card game for example). Number 4
eliminates "cops and robbers" (though in Junior High a group of us did
play a "cops and robbers" style game which did have some somewhat formal
rules).
I just came back and added number 5. I think this is one of the huge
keys to D&D and the like. The existence of a GM who is not just a
referee, but can actually change the rules is very key. This is what
allows an RPG to respond to new situations. You are not limited to the
situations the game designers were able to think of. What happens when
you throw a Fire Ball in vacuum????
> Games like Monopoly or Clue are what I call Family Board Games, and although
> you could say a player pretends to be a real estate baron in Monopoly, I
> would argue they do not actually role play the part with dramatic portrayals
> of the character's personality and speech.
But I know there are Monopoly players who will actually do dramatic
portrayals. Of course the continuing story line requirment eliminates
Monopoly.
> Tactical and Strategy Games are another catagory, and I would agree with you
> that the game being discussed has more elements of such than an RPG. (That
> is not a bad thing, BTW.)
>
> Then there are parlor games (what I call Social Games) like Pictionary,
> Charades, etc. And there are card games, sports, etc. etc.
>
> And of course Computer and Consol games have generated a whole series of new
> catagories. Some of these are just adaptations or an evolution of other
> types, such as Computer Strategy Games, which in turn can be sub-divided
> into Turn Based and Real Time.
>
> What was once Computer Adventure Games (text programs like Zork) have
> evolved to have a graphic interface (like Myst). These are sometimes
> marketed as RPGs, but it is a matter of opinion how much (if any) role
> playing there really is.
Actually, I would classify Myst as a different sort of game than Zork.
> I have also seen some First-Person-Shooters marketed as RPGs, and again, I
> personally don't see the player acting out the thoughts and persona of the
> character enough to be a true RPG.
>
> Some newer PC games (Diablo, Neverwinter Nights, etc.) have targeted the
> audience that also likes table-top RPGs with similar themes and scenarios,
> and these games also allow the player to develop a unique (or somewhat
> unique) character, and they can allow multi-player action among friends or
> even in larger communities online. In many ways, this is an RPG, but I
> think of it more as a Simulation of an RPG, since it lacks some of the true
> social aspects that normal RPGs offer.
Another class of games which is close to all of these are things like
the earlier Ultima games.
The games which allow interraction between multiple playes are the
closest thing to a computer based RPG, (but I just went back and added
another qualification to RPGs which blocks almost all of these, though
it can still allow the MUDs and MUSHes to be close).
> The tough part is that, depending on how the players act, any of these games
> can overlap considerably between catagories. A friend and I love to play
> the Strategy Board Game 'Amoeba Wars' (Avalon Hill), but he and I are goofy
> enough to actually use character voices and simulate spaceship sound effects
> when it is our turn to command our fleets to attack a new solar system. He
> might pretend he is the leader of an alien race and speak in a deep dramatic
> voice declaring, "My fleet will destroy you puny Earthlings!" So. Is
> Amoeba Wars a Strategy game? Or an RPG?
>
> Anyway, in the case of playing with Lego Minifigures, we have a whole new
> catagory: PBB (Plastic Building Brick) Games. Most of the PBBs I have seen
> are actually Tactical or Strategy games that use Lego figures instead of
> traditional wargame miniatures. Some PBBs have some creative uses of Lego
> elements that you simply could not get through the traditional medium. But
> again, I argue that most PBBs are Strategy games not Role Playing games. I
> think the game linked above has elements of an RPG in the same way that
> Diablo or other cross-catagory PC games I mentioned. It is not a true RPG.
> But, if you have wacky players who want to give each minifig its own
> personality and voice, it could be played as one.
Actually, I don't think we really need a whole new classification of
games for PBB games. They pretty much fall into the same categories
which already exist. On the other hand, it is useful to label the games
as PBB, and it may be useful to come up with labels which help identify
the brickness of the game (for example, the fact that most PBB games
include at least some degree of disassembly is a significant factor). Of
all the PBB games I am familiar with, I would say that the campaign form
of Evil Stevie's Pirate Game is the most like an RPG (though it has yet
to be run in a fashion which allows a continuing story line - it also
has a pretty small degree of brickness, the only changes which would be
necessary to use Playmobile instead of LEGO would be to define the
classes of each of the Playmobile ships). Brick Wars and Matt's new game
both have potential to be expanded into something more like an RPG.
I'm still tossing ideas through the back of my head on how to make a PBB
RPG with a significant degree of brickness. To me this would be key to
the creation of a PBB RPG. If the game is basically just going to use
bricks as the playing pieces, I think it would be better to use an
existing RPG system, probably one of the simpler ones. The one
adaptation which might be worth doing is re-defining the weapons list to
match the available brick weapons, and perhaps a few other things like
that (but that only creates a small degree of brickness).
Frank
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Lego RPG DraK'en.
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| Copied and followed up to .fun.gaming (...) I can understand this now that I have given more thought to the term. Such games have a relatively strict plot and to play through it, the player must solve a series of steps to reveal the story. (...) I (...) (22 years ago, 26-Nov-02, to lugnet.off-topic.fun, lugnet.gaming)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Lego RPG DraK'en.
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| (...) <snippage> (...) I agree with you on this, Frank. I favor catagorization also. Your term, Interactive Fiction is a nice one, possibly a broad catagory that includes many other sub-types of games. Role Playing Games traditionally are those that (...) (22 years ago, 26-Nov-02, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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