Subject:
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Re: This is where I actually want a gun
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 9 Feb 2004 05:31:20 GMT
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Viewed:
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402 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
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I see no reason for cable TV or conjugal visits.
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HA, don’t let the Libs hear you say that;-)
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Life in prison sounds about
right though. (I beleive you asked this already)
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But herein lies the rub. Does the punishment fit the crime? A 3 time drug
abuser can get about the same length sentence (depending upon the ages of the
criminals-- hey, life is only so long). Doesn’t seem just to me.
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Note, again, my assertion
that prisons need to be structured so that they do not cost the state money,
but rather, that they generate income that is given to the victims or their
families.
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Restitution. I’m all for it. But how can you force a prisoner to work?
(snip)
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For the sake of the discussion, yes.
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Sorry, no, you do not get to assume that.
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Some things are simply not knowable. If a jury finds him guilty, I trust he is
guilty.
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I grant it looks pretty certain but never can you be 100% CERTAIN. Do you
know for *sure* what exactly happened, John?
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What is 100% certain, Lar? The law doesn’t even require that, because it
would be impossible to convict anyone (as long as the criminals never
admitted guilt).
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The law requires beyond the shadow of a reasonable doubt, which is good
enough for me, as long as we are not talking about the death penalty. The
death penalty, in my view, requires certainty. Since we can’t have that, no
dice.
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What about DNA testing? Doesn’t get more certain than that. Further, since the
truth is what justice is all about, I would look to science to produce a method
of truth extraction to replace the criminal justice system. There is an
eyewitness to every crime-- even if it means altering the 5th amendment. The
notion that one is innocent until proven guilty is pretty flawed. In the meta
sense, you are guilty the second you violate someone’s rights, it’s just that
society either doesn’t know about it or has the evidence to prove it. If OJ
confesses tomorrow, is he still not-guilty? According to the law, yes. That is
messed up.
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Again I admit that that would be human justice,
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And therefore imperfect, and subject to error and mistakes and out and out
malfeasance. There have been too many rushes to judgement, too many
lynchings, too many cases where a convenient patsy was located... a
drifter, a guy with a previous record, or whatever, and a confession beaten
out of him so that the case can be closed all neat and tidy. Is that the
case here?
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Beaten out of him??? Please, you watch too much TV.
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Any TV is too much but I speak from much more accurate experience.
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Agreed, and a tangent besides.
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Probably not but do you know for certain?
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What’s with this certainty test? I think we all know that there are only
two things certain in life;-)
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Well, actually, only 1.
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I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Find me a Democratic candidate for
president who is willing to support the Fair Tax idea and abolish the IRS and
I’ll gladly vote for him!
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Therefore I oppose the death penalty even in this case.
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Bad reason to oppose it in my view. So a few innocents are executed
injustly (a very few, BTW).
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Got a cite for that? One is too many.
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Compare that to the number of innocents who are
murdered by murderers who get off on a technicality.
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Better that 10 guilty go free than that one innocent be wrongly punished.
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Well I say better 1 get wrongly punished than one innocent murdered by 10 guilty
man freed.
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It is when the citizens decide to mete out JUSTICE on their own that things
go awry.
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Why, because our present system functions so well on its own?
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Who said anything about our present system functioning well?
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Then what’s your point? Things go awry in our justice system all the time.
Citizens only decide to mete out JUSTICE when they feel that the justice system
is impotent.
JOHN
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: This is where I actually want a gun
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| (...) You're right, it's not. A 3 time drug "abuser" hasn't necessarily committed any actual crime at all, so shouldn't be in jail for his/her "crime". I'm glad to see you've decided to come to the side of the angels and oppose the war on drugs, at (...) (20 years ago, 9-Feb-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: This is where I actually want a gun
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| (...) I see no reason for cable TV or conjugal visits. Life in prison sounds about right though. (I beleive you asked this already) Note, again, my assertion that prisons need to be structured so that they do not cost the state money, but rather, (...) (20 years ago, 9-Feb-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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