Subject:
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Re: This is where I actually want a gun
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 9 Feb 2004 04:53:01 GMT
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Viewed:
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423 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys wrote:
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See, when the emotions get involved, can one really make a rational
decision where life is concerned.
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But if we are not outraged when atrocities occur, we are morally doomed.
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And if we stoop to the level of the atrocity committer in our meting out of
justice, we are also so doomed.
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Of course, but even if we tortured and killed a known torturer and killer,
it still wouldn’t be morally equivalent to the torturing and killing of an
innocent.
And BTW, what IS justice for a known kidnapper and murderer of innocent
children? Life in prison with 3 squares, cable TV, and conjugal visits?
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I see no reason for cable TV or conjugal visits. Life in prison sounds about
right though. (I beleive you asked this already) Note, again, my assertion that
prisons need to be structured so that they do not cost the state money, but
rather, that they generate income that is given to the victims or their
families.
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Somehow that doesn’t parse in my view.
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I don’t know what’s the right thing to do. If given a gun and this guy in
a room, I’d kill him. But would that be Just? I dunno.
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How would it be unjust? Showing him the same mercy he showed seems just to
me. The injustice is that there is a family whose lives have been
completely shattered forever and this puke is allowed to continue to
exist.
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Assuming he did it.
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For the sake of the discussion, yes.
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Sorry, no, you do not get to assume that.
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I grant it looks pretty certain but never can you be 100% CERTAIN. Do you
know for *sure* what exactly happened, John?
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What is 100% certain, Lar? The law doesn’t even require that, because it
would be impossible to convict anyone (as long as the criminals never
admitted guilt).
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The law requires beyond the shadow of a reasonable doubt, which is good enough
for me, as long as we are not talking about the death penalty. The death
penalty, in my view, requires certainty. Since we can’t have that, no dice.
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Again I admit that that would be human justice,
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And therefore imperfect, and subject to error and mistakes and out and out
malfeasance. There have been too many rushes to judgement, too many
lynchings, too many cases where a convenient patsy was located... a drifter,
a guy with a previous record, or whatever, and a confession beaten out of
him so that the case can be closed all neat and tidy. Is that the case here?
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Beaten out of him??? Please, you watch too much TV.
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Any TV is too much but I speak from much more accurate experience.
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Probably not but do you know for certain?
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What’s with this certainty test? I think we all know that there are only two
things certain in life;-)
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Well, actually, only 1.
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Therefore I oppose the death penalty even in this case.
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Bad reason to oppose it in my view. So a few innocents are executed injustly
(a very few, BTW).
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Got a cite for that? One is too many.
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Compare that to the number of innocents who are
murdered by murderers who get off on a technicality.
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Better that 10 guilty go free than that one innocent be wrongly punished.
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It is when the citizens decide to mete out JUSTICE on their own that things
go awry.
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Why, because our present system functions so well on its own?
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Who said anything about our present system functioning well?
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: This is where I actually want a gun
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| (...) HA, don't let the Libs hear you say that;-) (...) But herein lies the rub. Does the punishment fit the crime? A 3 time drug abuser can get about the same length sentence (depending upon the ages of the criminals-- hey, life is only so long). (...) (20 years ago, 9-Feb-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | Re: This is where I actually want a gun
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| (...) It is hard for me to see how prison could be zero cost. Criminals tend to on the dim side and have low earning potential. How could one motivate them to work without rewarding them with (say) cable TV? In the UK, the cost of keeping a man (...) (20 years ago, 9-Feb-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: This is where I actually want a gun
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| (...) Of course, but even if we tortured and killed a known torturer and killer, it still wouldn't be morally equivalent to the torturing and killing of an innocent. And BTW, what IS justice for a known kidnapper and murderer of innocent children? (...) (20 years ago, 9-Feb-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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